Best training in the world? You must be joking! (And I work for BA!)

I wonder how many other crews have, (or almost have), carried straight on at that junction? Apart from the warning on the chart, a switchable red stop bar wouldn't go amiss, especially if it's an area difficult to observe from the VCR.

Yes. Much too simple. One might even say grossly exaggerated.

BA has an impeccable history for safety.

I think the only incident in its entire history giving rise to finding of pilot error, was on 10 September 1976, when a Trident was in a mid air collision with a DC9 over Yugoslavia.

An Inquiry when attributing blame criticised both air crews for not keeping a look-out. Given that the air crew did not survive the accident, that conclusion however, was like the initial finding in respect of the Chinook over Scotland (which was subsequently reversed) an inference drawn from the occurrence of the accident.

One thing that strikes me as odd is the relatively little yaw the aircraft was subjected to after the collision. It struck the building with its outermost wingtip at taxi speed and sliced into it substantially, but during all this it apparently stayed pretty much aligned with the taxiway instead of being swung around by the long lever arm and taking a right turn onto the grass.

This is most likely a testament towards the buildings relative structural weakness; it does seem to point to a low (-ish) taxi speed though.

Blaming the pilot
 

Post #13:

“CAUTION / RESTRICTION
1. ACFT to exercise caution when taxiing on TWY B southbound to THR RWY 03L dueto Apron taxilane M extending from TWY B in a Southerly direction.”

Will it be asked why it was considered sufficientprecaution to avoid the risk of a plane straying from TWY-B to TWY-M, with a meretwo line caution, leaving just the pilot responsible to avoid the hazard?

Knowing the risk, of a plane straying, didn’t prevent themputting a building (and those in the building) in harms way (a deficient, orabsent, risk assessment for its construction?).

It does seem to have failed to stir themto install a warning system; a red light at the TWY-B/TWY-M diversion?

What's the basis for your comparison?

BA vs RAF? BA vs US Carriers? vs Asian Carriers? vs European Carriers? How widespread is your comparison sample?

Wingtips
 

Not withstanding the fact that there's never an excuse for a taxiing accident - going too fast, gone the wrong way, some one else parked in the wrong position, should've stopped if unsure and got a wingwalker etc etc etc -you have to remember that you really can't see the wing tips from the flight deck on the 747/744.

OK you can just see the tip if you reach and crane your neck but there's such parallax that it's no real use. Best option is to open the sun roof (escape hatch) and have a proper butchers from there. Even then the view isn't great. Or go along and find a cabin window that gives a view....At night those views would be pointless

Not that any of the above would've helped if these guys thought they were on the centre-line of an approved taxy-way. PIC carries the can though.

Many years ago a BA (or BOAC) 707 with a forward protruding HF aerial on the stbd wing collected a light pole (lamp post) taxiing via the wrong entrance into the BA terminal at JFK. The light array at the top fell onto the wing and punctured the fuel tank. A/c was ferried to LHR two days later. The crew wasted a day being interviewed by a selection of flight managers (10am sharp, uniforms will be worn), were 'retrained ' on the finer points of taxiing but nobody was fired.

i think similar will happen here. Gahd is perfect - the rest of us......:O

BAs procedure is to get the Take Off figures, via ACARs, as they taxy. I have waited for short periods of time behind them whilst they receive and enter the numbers into box. I'm not saying this is a factor in this particular incident, but the pilots cannot be concentrating fully whilst either waiting or loading the numbers and taxying?

It's a big black hole down that end of the taxiway, and 3 pairs of eyes is always a must.

Always wondered what that was for.:confused:

Thanks for the "pointer".

Nope. Not true. Where did you get your information from?

this is the view (B737) when on Taxiway - B , just before the slight left hand turn to proceed towards the Cat11 holding point, which the BA747 failed to do, the building is clearly vizible just above the right wing of the B737 ahead, the time taken to taxi this short distamnce to the impact point is probably only 5 to 10 secs, and so a moments distraction, right at the point of the slight left turn, and one can see how quickly things can go wrong

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.n...06637989_n.jpg

also

I am not sure of Taxiway - M has any lighting (should have), but the biggest give-away clue would be the drastic narrowing that occurs

Having been flamed before on this part of PPRuNe before I nervously offer this.

Many years ago I attended the court martial of an Argosy captain who had struck another aircraft while taxying at Khormaksar. In his defence it was stated and proved that the line on the taxiway had recently been repainted in the wrong position, several feet in the direction of the aircraft he struck. The stationary aircraft he struck was also incorrectly parked off its mark, several feet in the direction of the aircraft which struck it. In addition his nav (!) gave him a "clear starboard". I've done that myself hundreds of times when keeping lookout for my captain on Victors which had lousy visibility, and I have to confess to crossing my fingers on occasions!

In spite of this, the guy was found guilty of causing the accident and IIRC lost a year's seniority. I dont know if historical rules in the RAF have any relevance in the current world of civil aviation, but it seems to me that as well as perks, the position of captain indisputably carries responsibilities, and as Szygyzy has stated, ultimately he (or she) is the one who is going to carry the can.

Wannabe024

A BA pilot a few years ago! I stand corrected. But they defo wait for some sort of figures because i've been delayed behind them whilst they've waited before Take Off. Their words not mine to ATC?

what?

It isn't a big black hole OR

They definitely did NOT receive a change to the provisional loadsheet?

Just curious, but what's a BA 737 doing in JNB? Lost?

BA frequently used to do that at Heathrow "Just getting the numbers" as we told them to line up! Maybe they don't now (hopefully).

One button to press. Other than that it's no different to a change to performance calculations due to changing MET conditions. IMO something any crew would accomplish at the appropriate time; probably with the parking brake set?

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