africa world
 

Africa World :what are your comments on our above and Chinese direct investments and partnerships like in Africa , successful or not?

Sorry for the delay responding here. I've been out of town and just got back to the office this morning.

I don't think this is the right forum/thread for us to discuss Chinese investment in Africa, other than the specific investment by our principals in our project. On that front, I will state yet again that our principals have been very supportive of the project in all ways and share our frustrations at the bureaucratic issues on both sides that have caused the delays. Our Ghanaian and Chinese partners have worked together on projects in other sectors in the past and are transparently committed to a long term relationship on this and other projects.

With regards our plans and current status, there is plenty of discussion on this thread that can give you answers to most of the frequently asked questions. I am happy to clarify any specific points you need expanded upon.

No need for the apology hope you had a great trip was it China?

I hence do agree that this forum is airline based and not business based.

what do the Chinese have to say about all the delays being caused, and how are they going to fast track the process? from your previous threads sounds like you should be up and flying by May?

Have you already recruited pilots, ground staff and air crew?

Any plans on international routes ?

Thankfully not China. I go there quite enough for work - this was a personal trip over the long weekend! :)

Without going into specifics, we do have a plan to overcome the various delays that we are working with and while it isn't moving as fast as we would have liked it is making progress. So while the delays are frustrating, there is definitely a light at the end of the tunnel.

We have recruited and trained local personnel to meet our initial start-up needs and we have a sizeable (and growing) pool of both local and expat applicants to draw from for future needs. We also expect to receive support from our partners in China with engineers and pilots on secondment for the short term. I also expect there to be some new senior management appointments announced within the next 6-8 weeks.

Yes, we have plans to fly regional routes but nothing beyond the continent of Africa in the medium term. This is for a variety of reasons but primarily the additional fleet types required, the current overcapacity in the market to Europe that is driving down yields significantly and finally potential issues with the EU/US over our multi-national ownership structure. Beyond 3-5 years however, we would expect to increase the local ownership component and that could potentially open up opportunities for long-haul routes. In the meanwhile though, we are exploring joint venture opportunities with our Chinese strategic partners to connect Asia and West Africa.

africa world
 

Read your post quite late been over 2 weeks any news? and do expand on "light at the end of the tunnel " ..

Sounds nice to hear your frequent trips to china , need to visit there my self one day , when do you go next maybe you can advise on places to visit etc?

Great to hear so you will be offering direct flights from Africa to Asia but with which fleet ERJ 145 :O

What have the chinese concluded so far on start up and a/c delivery looked like 1q was your target but we are almost mid year?

Johnson121 - With all due respect, please don't put words in my mouth. "We are exploring joint venture opportunities" does not translate to "we will be offering direct flights from Africa to Asia with ERJ-145s". We're not stupid.

We have had a team in China this past week working with our partners there. Together, we have developed a clear plan that is able to get past the bottlenecks and bring the project to market at the earliest. We also have a range of executive appointments that will be announced following ratification at the next board meeting. That's all the details I can give for now.

africa world
 

That is great news, do ignore my silly comments.

That is great looks like your china trips are always fruitful , so by when do you see your plans executed to hit the skies. from previous threads indicate around June and that is in a few days :)

If you all are sure to take off, where are website updates, or commercial items. Facebook is a social networking site and not for potential customers to look at , it makes it look as if it is a sort of scam or just to get attention of many when maybe nothing is actually going to happen? Hope you get my point. Such projects initially can't be marketed through Facebook updates..

Have your new management come up with any news to spread to the market?

What is your view?

It may well seem that AWA's approach is steady and cautious, and I don't blame them especially with lots of i's and t's to dot for Ghana CAA to give lift-off signal. If the equipment is as yet not in place then nothing should be expected for another month.

Johnson121 you are right that Facebook is not a launch tool and I don't think these guys are stupid enough to think it is. Adding initial marketing time to other technical hurdles, Methinks, the first flight should be minimum 8-10 weeks away. That means end of July - mid August. If it does not happen by that time.....your guess is as good as mine what their short-term prospects are.

I'd add about a month to that to negotiate the Chinese bureaucracy and then we're close to being on the same page. I would not expect to see commercial flights until September (possibly even later), although aircraft deliveries and demonstration flights for the AOC are possibly going to be scheduled before that. Again though, subject to various external factors aligning correctly.

With regards to Facebook and other social media tools, the Chinese members of our team cannot even access many of them, so it is quite definitely not going to be our primary focus for anything. Our intention is to maintain a low profile until we have specific dates and plans in place and then pursue our marketing strategy. Facebook, like PPRuNe, is simply a means to engage with interested parties in the interim.

Well said & Good Luck

africa world
 

well said just as sales consult stated.

Just looks like every new post commented here always has a some uncertainty in it and a shift of goal post regarding the start dates..

You should certainly copy this long thread to make the Chinese member read about the talk regarding the airline start up.

Was the issue regarding the tax issue and export licence resolved ?

How do your employees if you do have any feel with regards to delays, are they paid or only when the start up is done?

Indeed, the moving goalposts are very frustrating. Which is all the more reason why we are better off keeping a low profile until things are all in place. The flying public does not have an attention span that accommodates future projects that drag on months longer than planned, regardless of whose fault that may be. As for certainty, there is nothing certain in life other than death and taxes. Especially not in Africa!

Speaking of taxes, the issues with tax and export licenses have been pretty much resolved at our last meetings in China two weeks ago. I will spare the details, but we will be using a lessor of record in Hong Kong rather than the mainland to get around these issues.

Our employees are probably the most frustrated bunch. Many have left positions elsewhere to come on board as they share the vision of the project, but they are itching to contribute rather than just sit back and collect a paycheck. All staff with signed contracts are being paid in full despite the delays. Not a pleasant sight for the accountants (we had budgeted adequate cash reserves for this kind of contingency though), but it assures the team of our stakeholders' full commitment and confidence in them.

Africa World

It is great that you've been more forthcoming in your last few posts than before and that is a great sign, somehow, forced by some concern or knowledge, in this forum, that start-ups in Africa always seem to head in one direction: failure.

It is also clear that your approach is methodical. I really wish you success.

Speaking of moving goal posts, taxes et al. could it be that you guys did not have good headstart advice to anticipate these issues or could it just be that the stronger role China is now playing in EMB manufacturing / maintenance is cause of these "China problems"? These highlight the question of how you and other management "experts" will navigate the waters with China going forward without disruptions.

I think the problem was more of an "uncharted territory" issue than anything else. This is the first time that a Chinese lessor was trying to lease a Chinese manufactured aircraft outside of mainland China.

Well, for better or worse, my role with the company is scheduled to end once the AOC is issued and the substantive management team takes over. Many of the senior management posts will be nominated by the Chinese stakeholders, so they should have plenty of experience of "navigating the waters" without disruptions. :)

africa world
 

Indeed, the moving goalposts are very frustrating. Which is all the more reason why we are better off keeping a low profile until things are all in place.

With regards to your above statement , do you mean to state that this airline is still in doubt if it will lift off? Or are the stake holders still in the deciding phase?


Our employees are probably the most frustrated bunch. Many have left positions elsewhere to come on board as they share the vision of the project,

Wow it is great to hear that your employees get paid and have left elsewhere to join this start up, sometimes you never know where new airlines can lead to looking at the major players like Ek and their growth . But reality due to all these stalls in the lift off and new management do the employees not feel cheated that majority was not in place but left jobs to join here. Management must well secure their future as families and responsibilities lie on them :)

my role with the company is scheduled to end once the AOC is issued and the substantive management team takes over.


Why is this so? are you not qualified enough to fulfill your current position or you were contracted till that stage? what are your next plans , or should I say your next start up project? Are you more experienced in ghana as compared to new appointed management to run the show?

No doubts as to "IF", but rather "WHEN". However, as this thread clearly shows, any delay in "WHEN" starts to induce doubts about "IF" among the public once sufficient water flows under the bridge. Hence, the reluctance to over-promise and under-deliver.

I won't speculate on what employees may or may not feel. I will however say that anyone who joins a start-up airline understands the risks and potential rewards. If one can trust a pilot with a multi-million dollar airplane, one can presumably trust him to make his own career choices as well. Start-ups have uncertainty and anyone who says otherwise has never been a part of one.

I wouldn't want to comment or speculate publicly on any reasons for this. I'd definitely be keen to stay on after the launch if given the opportunity, as I am confident the airline will be successful.

africa world
 

No doubts as to "IF", but rather "WHEN". However, as this thread clearly shows, any delay in "WHEN" starts to induce doubts about "IF" among the public once sufficient water flows under the bridge. Hence, the reluctance to over-promise and under-deliver.

FROM your previous threads it sums up that you are part of the senior management in the start up, but yourself seem to be very doubtful with all the "if's and when's ", would you not be the very best person to tell the public about developments after your frequent visits to china and what other members have to say as you have come out with plans to see the project at market at the earliest, and are these plans being worked out or day's go by with nothing worked towards ?

We seem to have a very different philosophy about this. We believe in letting the "public" know enough to satisfy their curiosity, but not so much as to build anticipation or expectations until we are confident of being able to satisfy them.

The worst thing we could have done is to have been very public with announcements saying "we will fly on XYZ" date and then for whatever reason, be forced to postpone it. We'd just have hundreds of other folks like you hounding us for answers! :p

Lets not keep going around in circles. I've said what I had to say on this issue and while I'm happy to respond to questions you or others have, I'm not here to dwell on semantics. Thank goodness it's a quiet Friday, 'cos I've spent enough time on PPRuNe already today!

africa world
 

The worst thing we could have done is to have been very public with announcements saying "we will fly on XYZ" date and then for whatever reason, be forced to postpone it.

i presume you all have a registered airline company with civil aviation and ICAO ? In your earlier threads export licence and tax was an issue to delay start up, as you said you have resolved them with a hong kong lessor what causes a delay again? as you have staff and cash flow reserves ?

What do your competitors in the region have to say, with a delay like yours are they all smiling presuming that africa world is a gimmick? and do you not think that all these delays can have a negative impact on the airline as competitors may talk about it in negative ways.

Wage disparities?
 

The question I'd like to know is "how much pilots are being paid?" What is the STARTING SALARY for a new entrant first officer/captain? Considering 70% of AWA is owned by chinese HNA Group why is there a disparity between salaries of Tianjin airlines (also an HNA subsidiary using same aircraft) pilots and Local pilots.

As for the delays - I hope this isn't a sign of things to come ... :(

I would like to set the record straight that HNA Group does NOT own 70% of Africa World Airlines Limited.

With regards to your comments about Tianjin Airlines pilots and local pilots, I'm not quite sure what you mean. Do you mean TJA expats and TJA local Chinese pilots (in which case you probably want to address your questions in the relevant forum covering China)?

flyafricaworld,

Are you a consultant for them?

Stand Corrected
 

Thanks

Okay, So who exactly does the 70% Chinese ownership belong to? And what is their connection to HNA/Tianjin Airlines to be using their facilities (erj 145 simulator) at Sanya, china?

...the question was, How much salary/benefits do Ghanaian FO's/Captains make at AWA? Is it less than Chinese FO's/captains flying the same equipment in China, and if so, why?

Just curious.


PS: seeing how domestic operations are being postponed, when would regional ops commence? 2015? Has anyone even seen the aircraft livery? Care to Share with the rest of us? I'm dying to see this.

There are multiple partners who make up the 70% non-Ghanaian ownership component. I don't recall the specific numbers for each offhand, but no single party has a majority stake.

Thanks for clarifying. Answer to that question is no, it is not significantly different than the local scales for TJA's ERJ-145 pilots at the various levels. It was actually very slightly higher when the Ghanaian pilots signed their contracts at the end of 2011, but due to changes in GHS and RMB exchange rates since then, the numbers are right around the same levels right now. For better or worse, experienced Ghanaian are able to command higher wages than they used to, primarily due to shortage of qualified personnel at present.

The intention is to expand into regional operations at the earliest possible opportunity (viz. as soon as the relevant licenses and authorisations are in place).

Echoes of The Guv'nor...?

africa world
 

The worst thing we could have done is to have been very public with announcements saying "we will fly on XYZ" date and then for whatever reason, be forced to postpone it.

i presume you all have a registered airline company with civil aviation and ICAO ? In your earlier threads export licence and tax was an issue to delay start up, as you said you have resolved them with a hong kong lessor what causes a delay again? as you have staff and cash flow reserves ?

What do your competitors in the region have to say, with a delay like yours are they all smiling presuming that africa world is a gimmick? and do you not think that all these delays can have a negative impact on the airline as competitors may talk about it in negative ways.

Heard china pay about 15000 USD to captains do AWA pay the same too?

I don't think he's due for release anytime soon. :*

We've got quite enough to worry about getting an airline started from scratch to be particularly concerned by the views of our competitors of all people. Certainly, they may think us to be a "gimmick", but at the end of the day the only way to prove our bonafides to both our supporters and detractors will be to get planes in the air. Until that happens, anything we say will always be qualified by an "if".

We seem to be going around in circles here. I'm not here to justify anything to people. I came on to this thread months ago to answer questions being raised by potential pilot recruits (and I continue to get a number of PMs with questions that I am very glad to answer or redirect), not to play armchair CEO and make a case for our business plan or activities. If you or anyone else thinks we are not going to be successful for whatever reason, I thank you for contributing your piece and we shall agree to disagree. :)

Africa World

You are quite right and I must repeat that your approach is the right one. You should not be discouraged with other issues filtering through what you thought would be for "questions" of potential pilots recruits, even such potentials need some information about your plan and set up before consideration. You will agree as well that you have this forum for PR exercise, in general, as well no matter how it turns out. I, for one, have been impressed. Keep it up and Good Luck!

africa world
 

Has anyone even seen the aircraft livery? Care to Share with the rest of us? I'm dying to see this?

I heard newly qualified recruits at AWA are paid about 2000 GHC per month (less than 1500USD). True or false? I'm sure pilots in China earn far more than that. May I ask, what currency are pilots paid in? US Dollars or GH Cedis... and are there any benefits I may not be aware of i.e. Car/medical/housing allowance?

Also what is the current recruiting climate like for AWA considering the recent delays? Have the 2nd batch of local pilots already been sent to China?

I also like the approach AWA is using - I agree with SalesConsult - most potential recruits would be curious about any start-up's plans as this indirectly translates into career progression and job security. Do not be discouraged. Great job so far! :ok:

I definitely see the huge potential for AWA to succeed! I'm keeping my fingers crossed that all goes well. Africa desperately needs what AWA has to offer.

Untrue.

If you would like to PM me any details about the source of this false information, I would be happy to go ahead and correct them. We pay per a sliding scale based upon rank and experience (eg. 8000 hr captains make more than 200 hr FOs), but the lowest range starts above that level. Considering the current demand for pilots in Ghana, I doubt anybody would have signed on to begin with at those levels.

Salaries are paid in Ghana Cedis, which is the requirement by law for employers of Ghanaian residents. The salary is however pegged to USD with a periodic review. A few other benefits are also provided (eg. medical, etc..).

No, we are still on hold with the second batch until the aircraft delivery dates are fixed. Obviously there has been some "turnover" of candidates in the interim, so we are still happy to accept applications from interested parties.

Hi flyafricaworld,

Hope all is well and plans are progressing smoothly. As we head into July, have there been any new developments?

checkPM!

Slow and steady and smooth for now. No new delays, which is always a plus! :)

Expect public statements from the shareholders around the 20th of the month.

Toto - please check your PMs - have responded to your question there.

Africa World. will you share the statements with us?

As July has begun is the launch in a few days time?

It is posts like this that sometime make me wonder why I bother engaging with you here. :ugh:

What part of my previous statement that "I would not expect to see commercial flights until September" implies a launch in July?

Flyworld maybe Johnson121 is so eager to see you guys chock-off that his keyboard can't connect past statements:rolleyes:.

Does anybody know whats involved in converting an FAA CPL license to local license in Ghana? I heard there is an Air Law exam but who administers it?
what other tests (eg skills test?) are involved?... Is the GH system more FAA or JAA?

anybody gone through the process?

The Air Law test is administered by GCAA's Personnel Licensing section.

The test itself is quite straightforward. If you qualify to sit the test, you are provided with a study guide. Together with a review of the GCARs and the current Ghana AIP, that should be more than enough for a properly qualified CPL holder to pass the test. I do not know of anyone who has failed the test, and that includes some folks who I seriously have concerns whether they knew which side of the plane pointed up.

To be permitted to sit the test, you must be able to show significant ties to Ghana other than simply those related to aviation. That means you should be a citizen of Ghana, born in Ghana, permanent resident of Ghana, or something other than simply trying to get the license in order to land a job with a Ghana carrier. This is at the discretion of GCAA - lately they have been very strict about this due to abuse of the system.

If you cannot show the Ghana ties as above, you cannot get a license CONVERSION but rather a 6-month VALIDATION (which is renewable at GCAA's discretion). The key difference between the two is that the validation requires you to have a type rating already endorsed on your FAA license (unless you want a validation to fly an aircraft type that doesn't require a type-rating), while the conversion permits a basic Ghana CPL/IR to be issued without the type-rating. Once you have the Ghana CPL/IR you can undergo a GCAA approved type rating course and then have the type-rating directly endorsed on your Ghana CPL/IR.

Africa World Airlines only conducts GCAA approved type-rating courses, which means that the prerequisite has to be a Ghana CPL/IR or ATPL and not just a validation. However, pilots who already hold ERJ-145 type ratings on their ICAO license can apply and go through the validation process.

Hope this clarifies!