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Oh you think Caco, after generations of colonialism what did it achieve in terms of advancing the continent rather than developing the west with plundered resources from Africa, no one is blaming the west for poor governance in Africa but we know that post independence African leadership was largely influenced by their former colonizers, why do you think Patrice Lumumba was assasinated with the help of the belgians, most recently another blood thirsty dictator installed with the help of the french to replace another dictator in Ivory coast, Colonialism is still on fellaz so stop displaying your ignorance on history and world politics on this thread, the only thing the west has ever cared about is having leaders who toe the line in the continent so they can keep plundering, and the concern of China as an entrant into Africa is not because the west cares about the people of the continent but rather the grip they are loosing on the continents resources, we understand how ruthless the Chinese can be but at least instead of enslaving us in debt they take whatever they come for and in return they put up infrastructure. You think Europe developed overnight they had their wars even America went through civil war at least then there was less interference from "globalization". Capetonian speaks of children born after 1990 as not being disadvantaged, if my math is right they are just turning 21 hardly out of college that is if they even got a chance to attend one, oh! remember their parents are pre 90's the so called disadvantaged most likely semi illiterate. Then come the post 90's and the said country transitions from apartheid to democracy with the majority being from the "disadvantaged semi literate" now tasked with running a country and an advanced economy with little or no formal education, and you wonder why you have the "Malemas" now in positions of power.
DRPAM007, sorry this isnt suppose to degenerate to where it has, it should have been a sober minded discussion on the cons in terms of safety in the continent and what can be done to make it better, but the people who are always making bigoted comments and immediately jumping on the defence before anyone accuses them are not helping the course of this thread, unless thats the kind of contribution you were looking for in the first place |
I'm neither polite nor hypocritical.
Can you prove that the majority of South Africans and Zimbawbeans are better off today than they were under white rule? |
Things Fall Apart...
Oh you think Caco, after generations of colonialism what did it achieve in terms of advancing the continent rather than developing the west with plundered resources from Africa You seem to have completely misunderstood me (or have I misunderstood you)? I am no supporter of colonialism. My points say so explicitly...;). "do much to set the cause of African aviation safety back" (i.e. it would be a bad thing). |
I did not say the black populace in SA or Zimbabwe are any better, what i implied was the transition from apartheid to democracy was poorly done there should have been ample time to make sure country was being handed to capable people, in the case of zimbabwe read what i said the west doesn't care as long as you toe their line, why are zimbabwean diamonds being sold in britain and its common knowledge the mines are owned by BOB, yet the same britain is on the fore front to criticize him for mistreating his citizenry and evicting the white farmers, as long as they benefit f&$k all else.
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@ Caco.
Sorry for misunderstanding your previous post, just wish this thread could stay on track in terms of whats ailing the industry and if the institutions managing the sector in the continent could be strengthened to improve safety |
just wish this thread could stay on track in terms of whats ailing the industries and if the institutions managing the sector in the continent could be strengthened to improve safety |
On the subject of SA, there are plenty of capable and educated people of all races. Sadly there is also a huge population of mostly capable people who have been ill educated or not educated all. The apartheid era is still much to blame for that although the current government has not contributed positively to improving that situation unfortunately.
As for blacks being better off under apartheid Capetonian I would say that I find that notion disingenuous but I suspect that you actually do believe what you say so I won't. Let's just say I beg to differ. ;) |
A breath of Fresh air......
Odericko2000,
DRPAM007, sorry this isnt suppose to degenerate to where it has, it should have been a sober minded discussion on the cons in terms of safety in the continent and what can be done to make it better, There's been a good number of balanced, thought provoking and positive contributions from some great individuals on the subject. However, it's still early days and I'm still hoping for more input from African aviators. The salvation of Africa does not lie in the goodwill from the donor nations. That goodwill began an ended with missionaries in the 18th century. Nowadays most charities are controlled by government handlers and protocol. Government aids and Grants are for all intents and purposes "Government baits and gags". Foreign governments, businesses, e.t.c are only intent on fostering and protecting their "permanent interests" which is to maintain their " competitive advantage over Africa."in other words, plunder, control dominate, etc. We await the arrival of the next stooge in Libya and the return of the European oil companies to the negotiate contracts of 2009 between Blair and Ghaddafi. Lets hope We Africans recognize it. Sadly, that's how international politics and diplomacy works. Ps Why do I have this nagging feeling that with the proliferation of nuclear energy in electrical power generation, our generous donor nations have not covertly hatched a plan to use some parts of Africa as a dumping ground for the "high Level radioactive waste" that is a bye product of the industry? I recall the environmentalist disapproved of France's underground storage facility and the French said it was an interim measure. So, what is the "final solution"? |
As for blacks being better off under apartheid Capetonian I would say that I find that notion disingenuous but I suspect that you actually do believe what you say so I won't. Read this and see what's going on north of the Limpopo. Things were never that way under Ian Smith's so-called 'racist' regime, but the entire world bleated and eventually succeeded in bringing down his government and seeing it replaced by the monstrous Mugabe regime. I appreciate that Mugabe is amongst the worst of African leaders, but there is a common thread of despotic megalomania which characterises many of them and the way their people are treated. Swaziland is another example. There is only one country in the region which is stable, relatively prosperous, and more or less democratic. The rest are a bleeding mess. A collapse of the national electricity grid on Wednesday plunged most of the country into the dark. That night the clatter of generators rang out from every direction; the noise was deafening and the air vibrated! ZBC TV called for people to switch off their geysers and lights to save electricity. What electricity, we all shouted, as we watched battery powered TV’s, because there was no electricity to save. Calls to the local electricity supply office resulted in a variety of reasons for what very rapidly degenerated into rolling 18 hour a day power cuts. We were told that the hydro electricity generators at Kariba Dam were being maintained, then that the thermal units at Hwange weren’t working and finally, the clearest of all reasons given was that there just wasn’t enough electricity in the country. An article in the press later in the week quoted a Zesa spokesman as saying there was “an unstable grid, resulting in the disconnection of inter connectors.’ The article spoke about a two hour national blackout but in many places it seems the inter connectors are still disconnected because we are still in the dark! The power cut continued for the next three days. Lights flickered on between 11pm and midnight and went off again a few hours later, long before sunrise. If you are lucky it flicks on for an hour or two in the afternoon but don’t bank on it! Coping with five hours of electricity a day, and then only in the middle of the night, is gruelling. We had got used to this a couple of years ago when daily extended power cuts were the norm but it comes as a shocker this time round when many of us are woefully unprepared. You can hardly hear yourself think, let alone hold a conversation with anyone as you walk around town, negotiating the smoking, roaring generators that clutter the pavements. Everywhere except the government buildings that is, where the norm is, as always, no change. Outside the passport office people are ordered to queue on the other side of the road providing a deadly hazard for drivers when suddenly a score or more surge across the road, running to be allowed in the gatein small batches. At the Post Office where civil servants and pensioners get their monthly payments, it is utter mayhem which is embarrassing and shameful to witness. With nowhere to sit or shelter, hundreds crowd the car park, pavements and road, standing for hours at a time in the full sun waiting to get their meagre salaries or even more meagre pensions. Payments seem to be dependent on electricity to power computers and people wait without apology or explanation from officials within. To all this mayhem add no water. No electricity means no water can be pumped and for three days my home town has been bone dry. Not a drop in any tap, sink or toilet. Everywhere we go we apologise to people for smelling and at every stream and shallow well, crowds of women scoop water out into containers to carry home. A borehole has been sunk in the town’s green, a small park which used to have pretty gardens, lawns and benches. Now lines of people wait their turn to get to the hand pump and draw a few litres of water to carry home. The lawns have turned to dust and the plastic water containers are piled up where once the flower beds were. When you have to physically carry every litre of water that you need, everything takes on a very different perspective. Hard to believe that life is still like this, two and a half years into our so called unity government. Even harder to explain to outsiders who say: but everything’s OK in Zimbabwe now isn’t it? Far from it and after a bad week it seemed inevitable that something daft would happen and it did, on Friday. An announcement came from Zesa – the electricity supplier with no electricity to supply. They said that tariffs are to increase by 31% from the 1st of September. Pay more for less must be their new slogan. for reading, love cathy Copyright � Cathy Buckle. 27 August 2011. *Cathy Buckle News from Zimbabwe <http://www.cathybuckle.com/> |
Capetonian,
You must be seriously trying to insult the collective intelligence or even "mediocrity" of Black Africans if you're insinuating that they'll rather remain oppressed, dehumanised and branded inferior humans in their own native land by racist invaders as long as they have uninterruptible electric power supply. Do you have an idea of what it means to be a "black father" with your own family; wife and children under apartheid or Ian Smiths Rhodesia? Are you just gloating over their current misfortune or you're being delusional. |
DRPAM007 :This is not really the place for the discussion, it would be better transferred to South African politics. Also I am writing this in haste as I have to go out shortly.
I am insulting, and deliberately so , the so-called leaders of the 'great new democracies' in Africa, for what they are, a bunch of murdering, merciless, mercenary thugs who set the worst possible example to their people. As for the people, they are more oppressed than ever before, and at least in the case of SA, the mechanism that calls itself a government, is deliberately keeping them uneducated. Uneducated does not equal stupid, and I have never implied that they are stupid. Are you black, and if so, did you ever live in SA or Rhodesia as "oppressed, dehumanised and branded inferior humans in their own native land by racist invaders"? If you did, I might have more respect for your opinions. Do you have any first hand knowledge of life under those regimes, or are you simply regurgitating the claptrap of the Peter Hains and the left wing press? 'Racist' by the way is an epithet more applicable to most black African 'leaders' than to most whites. |
DRPAM007
Moving back, if I may, to the original subject of this thread, I think the overwhelming theme is that it is pointless to try an improve aviation safety in Africa when things on the ground are still chaotic. Aviation in any region is an integral part of the socio/political/economic system and untill such time as those systems are funtional the air safety factor will be non or semi functional at best. The solution therefore is to get the useless fekkers who currently (miss)rule large swathes of the African continent, out of power, replace them with people who are competant and honest, and then we can all move forward from there. Untill such time as this happens you may as well be p1ssing into the sea for all that your efforts will achieve. You are clearly passionate in your ambition to do something about flying saftey in Africa, which is noble of you indeed. In this regard, there are over 800 airfileds throughout Sudan , less than 100 of them have windsocks. There is a container load of brand new donor sponsored windsocks ( about a thousand) languishing in a UN/Red Cross shipping container in Port Sudan where it has been impounded for the past 15 years. No amount of political wrangling has been able to get this container released. Why dont you take this on as a project and if you are succesfull in getting these windsocks released and distributed, you would have improved aviation safety in Sudan by 800 percent. :D:D:D I know its not a grand project but it is something that is realistic with definable aims, and it will definately make aviation in Africa safer. |
Please read
So some you can sound, enlightened....
Read this book by a black African woman about the topics you post about. Not aviation related. Dead Aid - Dambisa Moyo |
Definitely worth reading. Moyo, who is from Zambia, a nation which has received substantial amounts of aid since 'indepedence', explains why aid for Africa has been a disaster, causing death and misery and poverty in the recipient countries, how aid is malignant and encourages corruption.
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Maxrated"
In this regard, there are over 800 airfileds throughout Sudan , less than 100 of them have windsocks. There is a container load of brand new donor sponsored windsocks ( about a thousand) languishing in a UN/Red Cross shipping container in Port Sudan where it has been impounded for the past 15 years. No amount of political wrangling has been able to get this container released. ( the centre of commercial aviation in Africa). Is that to make it safer for the drug and arms dealers that spread conflict in the region? How about transfer of technical skills rather than windsocks? I try never to look a gift horse in the mouth, unless of course it is a Greek gift. A subtle difference between the "aid" we need and the "bait" we get. African does not need money thrown at it once in a while. The money which ends up in the banks of the donor nations. If we need anything from the international community, it is honest, fair and open partnerships! I guess those windsocks were donated as aid and all the container had in it were "wind socks". |
You're obviously quite knowledgeable and intelligent I was expecting something more poignant from you than installing 800 windsocks 15 year old in Sudan? I put it to you that YOU were expecting something more poignant for YOU. I appologise that my suggestion was not grandiose enough for you in which case please could you arrange EU funding and tech support for SSR radar controll from Cape To Cairo by the end of next year, there's a good chap... let us know when you are done.... Most foreigners/aid workers in Africa are looking for 'Glory' projects which will make them look good on their resume's, when the basics need to be adressed first. Admittedly the windsock project isnt grandiose enough for you but one should remember that it doesnt help to try something massive like installing SSR radar controll from Cape to Cairo (would be nice though) when there's no electricity in Zimbabwe to power the runway lights of Harare, or the jet fuel in Kinshasa is always contaminated or the ATC's in Luanda fall asleep on the job every now and then, or the Zambian Airforce extorts money from tourist charters into that country or the Russian cargo crews over Africa dont talk on the assigned radio frequencies and dont observe semi circular altitude rules or the fire engines in Khartoum Airport have no water or chems in them or pilots of aid aircraft continue to be kidnapped in Dafur and Somalia. (etc etc etc see thread on you know you are in Africa when.....) Like I keep saying, sort the basics out first. Is that to make it safer for the drug and arms dealers that spread conflict in the region? Sudan is strewn with aircraft that over ran runways and bush strips on account that they inadvertantly landed with tailwinds, hence my less than grandiose suggestion to you regarding the windsocks stuck in the container in Port Sudan... sorry.:confused: BTW DRPAM007, what do you suggest needs to be done to enhance air safety in Africa ?? When you started this thread you asked a for peoples opinions but you dont seem to be receptive to any of the suggestions from people who actually live work and fly in the region for a living, are you looking for a specific line of reasoning in which case feel free to elabourate ? Regards Max |
Maxrated,
Thanks, I'll take it that your practical safety enhancement initiative for the Sudan, is the installation of 800 windsocks, which I hope are still within their valid shelf life after spending 15 years in a container in port Sudan. BTW, I dont know where you came by the information that Sudan (as impoverished as it is) has up to 800 airports, landing strips or even heliports combined. I know Sudan should have not more 19 paved runways and about 130 landing surfaces. With 38 of those landing strips being less than 3000 feet long (914m). Yet you mention 800 airstrips. Are you sure these are legal landing strips, or those used for subterfuge and other nefarious activities? I find that highly disturbing, especially with porous borders and lack of radar coverage in that area. If the information you give is true, then the government of Sudan is not aware of the existence of your 800 airstrip, and they'll be keen to know who owns or authorised these extra 600+ landing strips. We do appreciate and applaud the sacrifice and humanity of genuine aid agencies and NGO's in the Sudan and Africa as a whole. However, there's a lot more economic and political activities that take place on under the guise of aid. We'll all try and stay focused on the theme from now on, shall we? |
Many of those landing strips are maintained by NGOs. They are essential due to the roads being impassable during wet season. However, I am sure if arms dealers want access to poor and remote villages in the middle of nowhere then they could use them too......or just use a helicopter of course.
Ever heard the adage that the most dangerous part of any flight is the drive to the airport? Well, yeah in that sense Africa is a very dangerous region to fly. My best answer to the OP is not to generalize too much about an entire continent but try to go country by country. However, in many of the poorer countries then lack of good regulatory bodies, a means of enforcement of regulations, corruption, war, weather, terrain and lack of infrastructure and properly trained ATC are a few of the hazards which contribute to the danger. I agree with max BTW. May as well have realistic goals. If you fly in an inherently dangerous region, the onus is on you to find ways of mitigating the risks to an acceptable level. |
DRPAM007
NO they are not legal airports in the first world sense of a legal airport, most of them are simply open areas adjacent to rural villiages and settlements, only the most robust aircraft , Twotters , DC 3's Pilatus porters etc can even contemplate operating into these places and then not in the rainy season. The official airports you refer to are the official registered airports under the controll of the Govermunt of Sudan. Although I use the word 'controll' reservedly as most would not pass a EASA/JAR/ICAO audit. No one is even sure which parts of the country the goverment controlls at any one time. It is possible that some airfields are used for nefarious activities, but then the country has been in a civil war for so many years so 'nefarious' would depend on which side you are on. Back to the topic, I am curious to know what your suggestions are regarding adressing the shortfalls of African Air safety ? Personally I for me its a matter of keeping your eyes and ears open, maintain situational awareness, dont do anything stupid,use loads of initiative, make sure your aircraft is well maintained, just the basics really , and you should be ok.:) |
CPDLC ADS and RVSM all airspace in Africa and control the lot out of Johannesburg.
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Groundfloor,
That's what we should be aiming for. However, I knw that countries like Nigeria in league with thales (France) have spent nearly USD$1 billion in trying to have total terrestrial radar coverage. Which will be obsolete by the time it is in place. Thales knows that since 2004, every forward looking country is planning for NEXTGEN, WAAS and GNSS not terestial radar, but hey, they want to sell their old stuff so why should they not encourage silly African countries to buy them. This strategic mistake by Nigeria could have been averted if the AFI through the AU and AFCAC had reached a decision to align all civil aviation policies within the region. Max, The Africa aviation environment is composed of socio- political and economic factors all of which must be harnessed in local as well as regional harmony to make any real impact. Historical evidence abounds that the impressive strides made by individual components (countries like South Africa, Ethiopia, Egypt Kenya, e.t.c)within the AFI region in achieving some global safety and technological standards have always been eclipsed by the failures of their proximate neighbors. If someone breaks wind in a crowded lift without air conditioning; the whole group stinks! Or a person suffering toothache will have to physically convey his entire body; arms , legs, head, nose, eyes and all the other organs who are otherwise healthy to the dentist. All for the simple fact that it is currently impossible to detached and despatch the mouth alone to dentist for the required treatment. Not to mention the pain that could induce a head ache that immobilizes the entire body That's the scenario that African aviation finds itself. Aviation requires long term strategic planning rather than short term tactical fixes that use up the scarce human and liquid capital. Logically, everyone expects this to be top driven, but we know most governments have 3-5 year life span before the next election and they plan to sow and reap in that time frame. It appears the political and bureaucratic leadership does not care, but the professionals in Africa should care about the future of the industry. It's time to see this sorted from the ground up. Driven or at least fuelled by the end users, the professional aviators and their various bodies profer an insiders solution to aid their leaders in taking the right decisions. For example: Can the system be improved by harmonising all regulations in the AFI region and have common licensing standards? Can the region better harness synergy by aligning their civil aviation policies with a common objective? A holistic approach has to be applied in unison to these social, economic and political factors that threaten aviation safety in Africa. Starting with simple, practical and proven initiatives. Africa should look for the opportunities beyond the threats and strength beyond the percieved weakness. |
Intel on AFRAA
Anyone with a participant's perspective on the just concluded AFRAA conference in Dar es Salaam?
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DRPAM007
I agree with your assesment. Can the system be improved by harmonising all regulations in the AFI region and have common licensing standards? Can the region better harness synergy by aligning their civil aviation policies with a common objective? The problem is in the implimentation. You would have to get 'buy in' from the governments of all 54 countries, all of varying levels of (in)competance and socio economic developement. Assuming that ultimately there were competant governments in place (mabey in another 30 years time when the whole Afro-socialist experiment has failed and imploded on itself), the cost implications would be huge. It would be very hard for a democratic government to justify billions of $$$ for aviation developement when most of the people in the region still dont have access to running water, health care and electricity. Untill such time we would have to stick with the staus quo and look forward to minor safety gains of individual country's. Baby steps first.... Max |
Max,
Thanks for you input. If I may have the liberty to add: Small basic steps will have been adequate 20 years ago. Right now, the environment is not that forgiving. The fast pace of technology requires long term strategy with a feature of dynamic adaptability. Even the major players in the USA cannot rely on chapter 11 for survival; they’ve swallowed their pride and gone for, long term commercial agreements, multibrand mergers and acquisitions. Not because they cannot survive, but because they need to make a profit or else it’s not worth it to remain in business. I believe Africa needs small steps that are part of a regional big picture strategy; one that integrates the scarce resources and available skill sets within; e.g. initial and recurrent training institutions, MRO’s, investors, banks, airlines to ensure that the investments and it's controls still resides on the African continent. Baby steps is what the politicians like to show case in order placate those clamouring for evidence of performance or heads on a platter. That short term tactical fix is what we see in the giants of aviation in African airlines viz; SAA, Ethiopian, Egyptair, Royal air Maroc, Air Algiers, ( all at least 95% government owned) and Kenya airways (formed 1977 , 26%KLM, 22% government). These are all struggling and losing against the top global 50 airlines in every aspect of operation. With the recent recession, airlines have zeroed in on the projected 4.6% expected traffic growth in Africa to stay in the green and the African airlines are now facing dire straits. We have more flights into Africa but it’s airlines are facing a great chance of extinction. The long and short is, Africa needs long term strategy and investment Small steps don’t cut it where you’re racing against giants. It’s either you throw in the towel or up your ante. Throwing in the towel portends more than just negative economic ramifications for Africa or for any country for that matter. Hence, the ownership and voting restrictions in airline business in most countries. Hence, the 27 EU countries have centralised ATC and negotiate bilateral air service agreements in a regional basis. Without synergy and macro-planning, it was going to be a battle of attrition for Europe and it’s 19th century competing powers. The modus operandi for the past 5 decades has shown that even prudent government backing is not a guarantee for success as there are carriers whose annual earnings eclipse the GDP of the most African countries. United-continental earned more money in 2010 than Kenya; the 10th richest country in Africa. So direct government investment in aviation wont cut it. Unguarded privatization will just cede control of the industry to foreign entrepreneurs and they’re not interested in developing infrastructure or social services in Africa. They want returns on investment. Aviation goes beyond pure financial economics. In all these, I still agree with you that even the implementation of macro strategies will end up being implemented in a multitude of small steps in the right direction. |
been there, done that...no it is not.
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(United-continental earned more money in 2010 than Kenya; the 10th richest country in Africa.)
How much of United-Continental's earnings were gainfully reinvested in company development? How much of Kenya's earnings, a significant feature of which is foreign aid, were used for the ends for which they were intended? The resources are not nearly so scarce as is the capability and integrity of governments in Africa to apply them in a scrupulous manner. Never mind though, personal teleportation will be along soon and then aviation safety will be once again of no consequence in the great continent that is Africa. EU freezes £83m aid to 'corrupt' Kenya | World news | The Guardian Let me add as a postscript that this is not an attack on Kenya per se. It'll just do nicely as an example of why individual responsibility let alone collective cooperation remains as far away as the African horizon. |
DRPAM007
Sir, I would be curious as to your opinion regarding the adjacent thread ' DRC CAA bribes', how would you handle that situation from an ICAO/EASA/ JAR/ European point of view? |
I can only suggest via a heavily armed invasion force. A 'Start from scratch' approach. But I do admit to a certain bias :)
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Max,
I expect that globally, whether in Africa, Europe or the moon soliciting, giving or offering of bribes in any situation is considered complicit, criminal behavior. Hence, there's no reason why it should be handled in any special way. There is no good reason for demanding or giving bribes; only excuses. In which case both parties bear some level of responsibility for the crime committed. Per adventure one of the parties ( usually the giver) was intimidated or threatened to accede, the logical step is to blow the whistle. Failing to report, shows consensual agreement. In some cases, the rot could be widespread in the system, but that's not an excuse not to report. Refusing to give bribes can result in some serious inconveniences, but we can see the effect of active or passive participation. Sometimes the process actually initiated by the giving party framing it as a "tip" to facilitate or expedite a process. All it does at best is to subvert due processes and foster a culture of corruption which leaves all parties involved culpable and the system morally bankrupt. Sadly, African societies pay a heavier price for this scourge than others. It appears confidence is misplaced when one expects developed societies/economies to adopt a moral high ground when it comes to bribery and corruption. Did money change hands between reporters and police in the UK phone hacking scandals? What would you call that? Did a good number of UK Mp's actually try to justify dipping their snouts in the trough before the investigation water tight? Here are a few questions regarding a well known saga that ties Aviation, Africa, UK, US, Saudi et al. What can be used to describe the over US$1 billion BAE (in league with UK ministry of defence) paid to Saudi Prince Bandar to facilitate the Saudi-UK $43 billion weapons contract in 1985? Not content, the same BAE bribed a Tanzanian middleman with US$8 million ( lodged in a swiss bank) to prevail on the Tanzanian government to buy a "white elephant" radar system costing US$88 million radar in 1999. These events were 14 years between, you can imagine what else had transpired in within the period. Okay so BAE was fined of £256 Million by the US because the Saudi slush fund was routed through the US banks and £30 million surrendered to UK courts for the iniquities in Tanzania. Did the prestigious BAE know this was criminal behavior or that is how they "normally conduct business"? What does it speak of the UK government when Tony Blair used the Prime Ministers' office to halt the investigation into the Saudi-UK Tornado deal? And it appears Cameron needed to expedite some process in Libya recently as well.. Libya officials bribed by Britain to help evacuate UK citizens | World news | The Guardian What is the Bribery Act? - Telegraph |
sure, blow the whistle. and in some places, get eaten.
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I thought cannibalism is no longer fashionable in African villages having been replaced by the endless supply of canned pork meat and sausages that comes as aid from US and the EU. However, it appears to be suited to rather posh and civilised serial killers like the "cross bow cannibal" and eccentric academics like Hannibal Lecter....
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Leave PPRUNE for a few days and suddenly a discussion on the "cannibals". I have been to bad bars on the Dark Continent but ****tt....
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hahahahah
OK, it doesn't happen often, but I have just recently heard three stories, from people I know and trust and respect... One, a missionary, was taken into a field, where there were several "bones" laying about, and held at gun point while interrogated (5 years ago) Another, had his friend "disappear" (3 years ago) and a third was "escorted" out of a village, and was told that there were talks of "doing him in" (18 months ago) So, maybe they aren't being eaten... but the rumors still exist Maybe that's why people continue to pay bribes... |
interesting thread shift here.
There used to be a version of 'Congolese Russian Roulette', you have to choose a Kinshasa night fighter out of a group of 6, except one of them is actually a cannibal, I never understood it myself but the old and bold Africa pilots used to speak of this.:cool: |
Saw a smokehouse in a village in DRC with human limbs in it around 2004. Got the hell out of there at high speed and left the troops to it.
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Wasn't there a little issue with the Gabonese Embassy and some oddly stuffed cooler boxes a few years ago, or am I dreaming things...
Too many years in West Africa have left me with no doubt whatsoever that cannibalism is still practiced, even in some very high circles. |
I have flown into and out of Jo-burg quite a few times in an A340 and I would say that the aviation side (apart from the superb JNB ATC and the JNB Airport infrastructure itself) compares favorably with the less populated parts of the rest of the World. Just use the big sky principle, listen to and talk on the radio and watch the TCAS.
From what I have read so far on this thread, it would seem to that aviating in any other part of Africa is a far safer proposition than walking around on the ground. The most deadly animal in Africa has only two legs... |
@flexible
hahahahhahahahaha @DRPAM007 Still wanna go and NOT pay the bribe? Wanna be the "whistle blower"? |
All things considered, every action has a "cause" and will create an "effect". No person is omniscient, but most times we know when we have deliberately chosen to do what is wrong. Being human allows us to exercise the privilege of choice. Funny, but this reminds me of a line in Arabian nights "Aladdin" series where Jafar remarked " You never know what you can live through" when asked if there's anything worse than death.
Perhaps the real question is what happens when everyone gives the bribe and no one blows the whistle? An old friend once said; " in the face of truth, logic, facts or even excuses Reasoning is a matter of choice". |
To whom would one blow the whistle?
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