SAA nepotism???
 

I have just had a lively debate with a mate.

He says just about every pilot who got into SAA the other day has some powerful family connection there.

Surely this can't be true? I would need some serious convincing if I were to believe that. Or is it just another form of SAA bashing?

Some do, I know that for a fact. Most don't.

It may well be going in that direction though, following the lead set by the government.

It is what it is.
South of the Limpopo is pretty much starting to resemble North of the Limpopo when it comes to State run institutions / organisations / parastatels or whatever other name you want to attach to them. This should hardly come as a revelation 20 years into the rainbow nation!

Deal with it, laugh it off and accept it. It isn't going to change anytime soon.

Move along people - there's nothing to see here!

SAA bashing (again)
Over the years there have in fact been some with serious "connections" who never got in! Why? Because they never met all the requirements or were found unsuitable.
Likewise, there have been some with connections who would have got in anyway - regardless of their connections. Why? Because they met all the requirements and were found suitable.
There is no mystery involved. Selection is a points based system for qualifications and experience - with psychometrics and an interview to determine suitability.
The only advantage you'd have with "connections" is a reference in the airline who can vouch for you. But even then, the selection board makes up their own mind.
Obviously there is pressure from management to take certain individuals, but the one time where management forced our hand, it ended up in the guy failing his conversion with a lengthy and very acrimonious departure from the airline! Not good for anyone. Nowdays when the selection board says an individual isn't suitable, management generally doesn't interfere.
I'm sure they don't want a repeat of that little episode!

Trojan horse
 

Only one guy from Mango got the call. 6-7 the two previous years. Son of 747 captain.

Of the link guys that got in recenly I know that one is a cousin; one is a son ; one is a brother and one is a son in law OF SOMEONE IMPORTANT AT SAA.

So, stop moaning all you SAA wannabees and just get someone on the inside!

Lets see the sense here...Its common knowledge that in this industry knowing somebody influential usually gets you an interview. And getting an interview is 50% of the way to getting the job...so logically it follows that those who know someone inside will be at an advantage! Its not that hard to understand!:ugh:

I worked for a Caribbean airline that is now defunct, many of the new joiners were sons of pilots who were employed at the time. Maybe it was nepotism but all those lads grew up in the industry and all turned out to be superior pilots. I should also include myself thought the old man left in '41 and I joined in '76 so he had no influence in me being hired, but I did grow up in the business.

My Grandfather was a pilot, my father is a pilot, my brother is a pilot and my uncle is a pilot. I guess I shouldn't get a job anywhere, I know too many people.

Why is anyone surprised? It's a govt department after all...:E

Not quite everyone...but most of the SAX guys that recently joined had a family connection amongst the pilot fraternity at SAA.

Read gchangflyer's post again and again and again. The same at all airlines!

Sad but true my fellow aviators, but these individuals are but a hand(bag) full, try looking at, say a certain airline with a kangaroo-on-its-tail, now there is a company that takes nepotism to a whole new level!

BTW: I joined only knowing a few.....................:cool:

There is place on the application forms asking if you have any family members who are employed by SAA so they clearly do take that into account.

I wouldn't go quite as far as to compare an aircraft to a loaded pistol although there are people out there who fly who would be safer and more productive stuffed in a wax works display playing Russian roulette. ( I'll pass on the origins of that fascinating little gambling pastime some other time.) But who would you want on a dark and stormy morning beside you in the cockpit, a family member or a complete wally (excuse the pun) of a stranger? At least with the family guy you can smack him on the back of the head when he gets it wrong and make rude speeches about his lack of flying ability either at his wedding or the next Christmas bash. Nepotism is a great institution. It brings a degree of certainty and a quality of stability of character guided by potential retribution to an otherwise unruly recruitment business. The only ones who rant against it are those who have not so far received its benefits.

Dear CavortingCheetah. Did you marry your sister? Your argument seems like it bubbled up somewhere in the everglades.

"Nepotism is a great institution. It brings a degree of certainty and a quality of stability of character guided by potential retribution to an otherwise unruly recruitment business"

Are you for real or is your name Billy-Bob?

You might as well have said :" Inbreeding is a great institution. It brings a degree of certainty and a quality of stability of character guided by potential retribution to an otherwise unruly mating business"

We have a wonderful constitution and ideas of equal opportunity. In it the principles of racism, nepotisism and discrimination are not enshrined. Unfortunately, like the Cider House Rules, not everyone respects it.

@Jacobace - ever heard about irony and sarcasm ? In this case it is a form of creative humor you know...

It is also roundly ignored by everyone as per the example set by the government.

Not quite Nugs. You and me are expected to abide by those lofty ideals. The pilferati in the ruling regime have free rein to do as they please.

Nepotism is common practice in most companies. I have seen it first hand in every (aviation) company I have worked for, or know of ! Saw it blatently at 3 charter companies (one at FAVG the other 2 at FALA) and a certain " South African Regional Airline" ! You just have to learn to live with it.


However the wheel does turn :E !!!

Stupid String this. Watching the amount of airways bashing, only a complete idiot would realise that there is an alterior motive. Agreed, there has been a relatively big persentage of SAA related guys getting into SAA, but on balance they are the higher time applicants. Do you therefore think that having family in the company excludes you from employmenent there? It's not a :mad: kitkat compitition! Apparently the most superior types are still out there! Most of the guys have paid there dues plus a little. Keep applying, it is the only way, forget what you percieve as a disadvantage, because it is not the case. On the last intake (as far as I know) there are no family members. If you applied and did not get in, maybe there is a reason, and if you have not been invited, keep going.

Stupid String this.
 

A string was plucked......................:ugh:

Very clever :ugh:

In the days when I was on secondment as a cavalry officer to the British army it was not unknown for the wives and mistresses of an impecunious officer to sleep with their husband or lover's superior officer in order to gain advancement upon the ladder of promotion for their loved one. In these days of the internet surely the arrangement of a suitable website for something as mutually rewarding as this would be easy enough to organise?

"Sleep with their husband or lover's superior officer......"
 

Where do i sign them (wife,sister,mother,step-mother,maid, friends daughter/s) up??

Can i have CP at SAA for all of them??:eek:

Come on guys.
If your Son was a up and comming pilot, would you not help him get the job?
I would thats for sure.
Some airline in the States don't allow family members to work in the same Airline.
SAA does not have that policy.

I agree with Four Engine Jock. If a pilot has served at SAA and is a senior SAA pilot, and is in good standing, why should the selection committee not give their kids preference? It also goes the other way where we have SAA pilots who are not in good standing and their kids will never be hired by SAA, often because they tend to have the same traits as their father.

As long as the candidate meets the same experience levels as the other pilots being interviewed, they will have a better chance of getting the position if their father is an SAA pilot in good standing.

Life's not fair, especially if you are a white male in South Africa. My advice is to get to know some SAA pilots who are respected within SAA circles and get them to contact one of the selection committee members a few days before the interview to let them know what a good guy you are. Just make sure you are a good guy and not a former SAA basher!!

Did I marry my sister?
The salacious thought of scrubling up with a sympathetic sibling bring tears to the eyes.
Had I had one and had I also been a Pharoah then I would have married her and established a divine line of pilots of the golden barge to fly the tailed bird of Horus through the skies of today for Egyptair.
However since that's probably more information that most African pilots can ingest, compress or even comprehend without getting a severe dose of feathers let me remind you that we are only talking here about something as trivial as a personal recommendations. The sort of context in which I can safely say that my son is superior in his computer skills to yours just as my son would defend with skilled oratory the fact that his father is a finer flyer than is yours.

(Note: African pilots of course refers to pilots in Africa as opposed to any other form or variety of African pilots.)

Nepotism exists in every level of our society. Look at what parents “donate” to schools to advance the interests of their offspring... The job market is exactly the same, how many of you didn’t get a break by knowing someone or having a mate drop off your cv and put in a good word? I for one, have flown with a number of pilots whose parents fly for SAA, each one I have found to be passionate, driven and very competent. If one day he gets into SAA because his CV hit the top of the pile then good luck to him/her. There are just as many “nobody’s” who Ive flown with who are now at Emirates flying trip7’s. Stop worrying about the other guys, focus on where you want your career to go.

Definition of Nepotism: "Favoritism granted to relatives or friends regardless of merit".

Someone, whose father is a captain and has taken him/her to flights on Cessna since kid and told stories in dinner table from the airline is in advantageous position. Later father is around to help on the books when reading PPL/CPL/IR examples. Finally, father tells HR on coffee break that his kid has got all the papers, vouches for his/her competence and asks if and interview can organized. Father tells kid what HR will asking for, what HR enjoys hearing etc.

Somewhere else, someone whose fathers parenting consisted of beating kids when drunk, worked ass off earning enough money to get the same papers. Without as much money, chooses a cheaper school with not as good teachers. Arrives to the same interview as captains kid, unprepared.

Who of the above will HR choose? Unfair? yes, life is. Nepotism? not.

Another case would be if the said airline has an AB-initio program, and "Captains kid" is chosen even thou more capable kids were interviewed.

That would be clear nepotism.

Real life, as usual, is more complex. The difference between "advantage due knowledge in family" and "nepotism" is sometimes really small.

Proper definition of nepotism
 

Dictionary.com

nep⋅o⋅tism   [nep-uh-tiz-uhm]
–noun
patronage bestowed or favoritism shown on the basis of family relationship, as in business and politics: She was accused of nepotism when she made her nephew an officer of the firm.
Origin: 1655–65; < It nepotismo. See nephew, -ism


Oxford Dictionary:

Pronunciation:/ˈnɛpətɪz(ə)m/
noun
[mass noun]
the practice among those with power or influence of favouring relatives or friends, especially by giving them jobs.

Collins:
Using your power or influence to get good jobs or give unfair advantages to friend or family members

...but, more topically, will I go straight to heaven if I worked for SAA, or suffer eternal damnation if I worked for the opposition? :E

No, but if you work for SAA you do learn to walk on water.

I R P


Dont you mean FLY ON WATER. :rolleyes:

One of the the guys who can fly on water had some one pushed off an intake and his son put on instead.

NEPOTISM will always be there.

In South African Aviation it is not what you know but who you know.

Other airlines were also a SAAF old boys club and if you were not military enough you did not get in even if you knew 3 out 5 members in the panel:oh:

It is also not the end of the world to NOT fly for SAA.

As a father, and if I thought my son were up to the job, I'd push someone off an intake for his sake. Ye gods and little fishes, his mother would never leave me alone if I blew her child's career out of the water by not doing so! As a dutiful son, I'd be eternally grateful in acceptance and perhaps a little guilty until I realised that the other lad's father would have cut my throat in turn. Such activities form part of inheritance or birth right and have the great advantage that they're tax free! Do you think I'm going to feed you when my family are hungry?
The only people who moan about not receiving the benefits of such a trickle down form of inherited wealth are either those who do not benefit directly from the activities of their ancestors or those on welfare. Those in the former group should start work and breed their own dynasty. Those in the second can only gnash their teeth at the infuriating knowledge that such nepotism is indeed tax free and thus does not provide them directly to an ill deserved luxurious welfare existence.

Here is the real numbers: since Jan 2010, 46 positions were filled at SAA. 6 of these members were directly related to people in the airline. Nepotism? If you think SAA has over 800 pilots alone, being related to someone in the airline is not such a huge feat looking at total pilot numbers in SA. Just a thought!

Nepotism At Saa
 

SAA recruits on merit, not debit. If you are pilot material it will
definitely show in the psychometrics and personality tests
and they will pick you up.

Ever flown with SAA line pilots before and seen how good they are?
If not yet, try that.