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-   -   Maun, Botswana. The essential guide. (https://www.pprune.org/african-aviation/433420-maun-botswana-essential-guide.html)

lilflyboy262 5th Dec 2010 08:35

4 or 5 beers? sounds like a light night....

See you in maun!

MartinCh 8th Dec 2010 09:01

although not essential (from what I read, only), it'd be more competitive having 5 hours or so on it, I'd say.
Portland area doesn't sound 800km away from Silverton.
Just a thought. It's in their charter department (obviously not used as big C152 or C172) but I'd give them a call for quote. Easy.

The only 206 I can find within 800km is USD 300 / hour plus USD 50 for the instructor
What about Hillsboro Aviation and C206H?

darkroomsource 8th Dec 2010 09:45

I'd sent them an email and left a phone message some time ago, since their site says it's charter only. They've finally got back to me and want USD 375 per hour for the plane. The next closest is in Everett, which is about 200 miles (320 km) as the crow flies, and it's USD 350/hr, then the next one is more than 800 km away.

I normally rent a 172 for USD 96 wet, and the instructor is 40. I was thinking about getting my flight review in the 206, however I haven't flown in over a year, so it will probably be 2 or 3 hours, plus 1 or 2 ground, or USD 800 at Hillsboro. For that much I can fly 6 hours in the 172 with an instructor and renew my IR as well, and maybe even take a fun trip somewhere.

That was why I was asking if the 206 was more important than being current. And I think the answer I got back was that it would be better for me to be comfortable flying, rather than have 1 or 2 hours in a 206. I certainly can't afford 5 hours at $375 per hour.

I have flown for many years, and have had the occasional hiatus during that time, and I know that I get back in the saddle in about 2 hours of flying. And I'd need probably 3 hours IR to be comfortable again - although I would not want to go to minimums after just that much refresher. I know that the IR isn't important in Maun, but apparently one or two of the operators in Namibia are interested in the IR.

Honestly, if I had the money to do 5 hours in the 206, I think I'd rather do a few more hours in a 310, and finish my MEL instead.

By the way,

Any one there have an update? Are there a "bunch" of pilots expected to leave in January? What about over in Windhoek? I haven't decided whether to go to Maun or Namibia first.... How about the permit situation?

ragdragger 8th Dec 2010 10:48

I had 60 hours 206 time when I showed up in Maun and no one cared in the slightest. I ended up with a job but it had nothing to do with my 206 experience. Don't waste your money.

MartinCh 8th Dec 2010 22:53

DRS, then that's no-brainer. I didn't catch you stating you're not current. Easy choice then. I may do bit of 206 flying in Washington State or elsewhere in the US, but if, it'd be for float rating, next summer or in 2012. Two birds with one stone. 206 time, SES rating and possibly, later on MES, but that's bit hefty, at 450-500 bucks an hour dual.

All the best with job search. If you somehow don't get a gig, I'll get you a beer or two sometime next summer. I'll be mostly in McMinnville, doing some fixed and heli flying, so long the plans don't change. Or a ride in Robinson 22. I'd be interested to talk about your experiences etc.

EDIT: Guys here mentioned Wings Over Africa. They've got handful of Cessna Twins. I guess if it's them preferring IR jocks due to insurance/added bonus skills.

captainsuperstorm 23rd Dec 2010 09:24

Very often you will be flying overweight. Very often you will be flying with your C of G well out of limits. And you will learn how to deal with it.
and you are proud of this????

aviation in africa, bunch of criminals ,yes.!
I can not believe that some professional pilots with CAA license, go down there to break rules. I would like you send me names of guys who fly overweighted, and outside limits, so we can take their license away!

How desperate are you? this is pathetic!:yuk:

Exascot 23rd Dec 2010 10:53

Captain SS. I agree totally. I cringed when I read this. Unfortunately as a passenger I once experienced this. It was a marginal T/O on a long runway. Did I report it to the company or the authorities? No. Why? I am still not quite sure. Anyway that pilot is no longer with the company. So, until the next time…

lilflyboy262 24th Dec 2010 12:35

Captain Superstorm
At no point did I say I was proud of this. And if you weren't so trigger fingered you would see that I have already had this arguement.
It is a unique situation here where you don't have the facilities to weigh and measure every person that sits on your aircraft. You have 6 different types of aircraft operating over 7 different companies, out into the bush.

The first time you meet the passengers is at the plane door, and I would love for you to do a weight and balance at each stop and be able to move the amount of people around each day that you get tasked with, while staying within daylight and duty hours.

You only get a generic weight of passengers and a generic weight for baggage.

Im not going to start dragging this thread down into a arguement as I have taken a lot of time to get this information online and don't want it going to waste from a holy than thou person.

luangwablondes 24th Dec 2010 12:54

So which Maun charter airline is the safest to fly with?

Boomerang1 25th Dec 2010 15:31

Overweight TO
I too experienced as a passenger an overweight TO out a small dirt strip in the Delta area. It was a 206 fully loaded with 6 passengers and lots of baggage in the belly compartment. The aircraft was unable to get airborne without the stall warning going off intermittently. What really bothered me was that the stall warning continued to sound during the initial climb. I noticed that the oil temp and cyl. head temps were at redline for the entire climb. The outside temp on TO was 40C.

I felt really stupid not asking the pilot to show me the weight and balance calculation prior to getting on the aircraft. This is not the way to fly a charter aircraft. The operators must just love getting inexperienced pilots so that they will continue to operate in a stupid unprofessional manner.

When I confronted the pilot after landing about the high engine temps, his response was that the engine was fresh out of overhaul and running hot was normal for this engine.

I also reported this to the tour operator and they said that the pilot should have left the baggage behind.

As a experienced pilot I will never again be a passive passenger on a light aircraft.

cavortingcheetah 25th Dec 2010 19:28

Some very general and rough figures for a C206? No take off graphs or anything sophisticated.

AEW = 987 kgs.
MTOW. =1,632 kgs.
Available = 645kgs.

6 x pax (5+1)@ 70kgs = 420kgs.
6x bags @ 10kgs=60kgs.
Total pax and baggage.= 480kgs.

Available for fuel = [email protected] 0.72 kg/litre = +/-60 US gallons?

70kgs for a pax and only 10kgs for bags? Of course it's too low but a nominal weight value is just that.

Stall warning? Function of TAS and thus temperature and air density.
So long as aircraft flown at POH recommended IAS there should be no prejudice.
EGT high? To be expected on engine after overhaul because Mixture should be enrichened to slightly over rich for first 50 or so flights.

Mathematics is not a strong point and it's obvious I know nothing about 206s but I'm sure that some of the swamp rats up in the delta do.

(lilflyboy262..this is your essential guide so I'm more than happy to delete this if you'd like.)

Boomerang1 26th Dec 2010 08:18

Misconceptions regarding stalling
An aircraft only stalls when the wings critical angle of attack is exceeded. This has nothing to do with TAS. If you fly an aircraft that is overgross weight then the angle of attach must be increased to produce enough lift to get that extra weight off the ground. This works up until you reach the critical angle of attack.

To climb with that extra weight the pilot had to use a slower airspeed than normal climb speed. This is what is causing the engine to overheat.

Your right about all the standard numbers you stated as being incorrect.

lilflyboy262 26th Dec 2010 12:24

Don't forget to add that the wing and tailplane is usually contaminated with mud from the strips during the summer season with higher than 40c OAT.

Hence why my company now only flies with 4 pax instead of 5.

With all this jumping up and down though, I ask you one question. When was the last accident here that was caused by being overweight?
As far as I can recall. All the accidents have been from general mechanical failure that you will find in GA all around the world with the exception of a few pilot errors.

ragdragger 26th Dec 2010 13:27

Moremi crashed a 206 2 years or so ago. If I remember right the pilot said he got caught in a downdraft after an aborted landing at either Delta or Ntswe due to a nearby thunderstorm. He was carrying 5 pax and baggage plus an infant on a lap which probably made fighting that downdraft a lot more difficult.

cavortingcheetah 26th Dec 2010 18:46

In 2008 near Ntsu with a New Zealand pilot at the controls. Apparently he was flying past Ntsu on a diversion when he was caught in a microburst.
In May 2001 a Moremi 206 crashed near Maun killing three New Zealanders and the South African pilot. That was the first fatal accident in the Delta for about six years.

Here's a little information from the manufacturer about the Stationair or C206 just in case anyone has forgotten how essential it is to keep a sort of mark one eyeball on the weights. It's astonishing really that the 206 is still in production. Cessna's typical 206 with Garmin kit, costs =$533,400 and a Stateside cost per hour to run a new machine of $162

Ramp Weight 3,614 lb (1,639 kg)
Takeoff Weight 3,600 lb (1,633 kg)
Landing Weight 3,600 lb (1,633 kg)
Zero Fuel Weight N/A lb (N/A kg) N/A lb (N/A kg)
Usable Fuel Capacity 522 lb (237 kg)
Typically-Equipped Empty Weight 2,241 lb (1,017 kg)
Useful Load 1,373 lb (623 kg)
Maximum Payload 1,359 lb (616 kg)
Full-Fuel Payload 851 lb (386 kg)

There's also a Turbo Stationair.

nyathi 27th Dec 2010 09:44

Interesting reading, but allow me to make on or two comments/statemants!

Yes, ALL the companies in Maun work on a generic W&B program and weights stipulated in our SOP and OPS Manuals.

BUT, it is still up to the pilot in command to make that judgement call to say, yes this is ALL GOOD or No you cant make this flight with these weight. Certainly in our company you are NEVER allowed to fly overweight! You do so, its at your own risk, should something go wrong, well, then face the music!

But, I'm not saying that over weight flying doesnt happen over here! Some companies turn a blind eye :eek:! Is it right.......HELL NO! :mad: :=

So, doesnt matter when you first see your pax and their ten tonnes of luggage, its your responsibility to make the right judgement call whether you can or cant fly with that weight!

ragdragger 27th Dec 2010 10:46

The excuses about flying overweight in Maun always sound lame to me, and the problem isn't picking up a few overweight passengers or oversized bags, it is trying to squeeze 5 pax and their bags in a C206. If you see a 206 leave Maun with 5 pax and luggage it is almost certainly overweight. It has been long enough now that I dont remember the exact numbers but I knew how many standard pax and bags I could carry with a given fuel load and be legal. Even four pax is well over in some of the 206s i you have a lot of legs and are carrying a sensible reserve of fuel. At least when I was there all of the companies, even the ones that restricted 206s to 4 pax, knowingly dispatched aircraft that were grossly overweight. At least part of the reason young pilots with fresh comms are considered most desirable in Botswana is that the companies know that pilots working their first job are easiest to intimidate into flying aircraft loaded past their legal limits. To my knowledge no one has ever been fired in Maun for refusing to fly heavy, so I dont really understand why people still insist on doing it.

lilflyboy262 27th Dec 2010 13:05

I believe the 2001 was a wingover at low level on a scenic flight.
The 2008 was a microburst on landing. Was low and slow. Everyone survived. Only a broken back or two.

FaFa 11th Jan 2011 09:20

Dear lilflyboy262

Thank you very much for your golden points.
I got my CPL/IR (Frozen ATP) from SACAA about 4 months ago and now i'm living in Iran but i don't have any motivation to stay here and look for job here so i decided to looking for a job in Africa and started with Tanzania because friend of mine was working there as a chief pilot but he left a company and backed to Iran and told me there is no chance to find a job in Tanzania anymore.

I wanna travel and visit manu but i think there is risk to spending a lots of money there then couldn't find a job.

But i'll hit the road and come there.if anyone gonna to go there in next 3 weeks please inbox me.


EladElap 11th Jan 2011 09:25

now i'm living in Iran but i don't have any motivation to stay here and look for job
Maun is definitely not for you then boet. You need to be tenacious, relentless, and highly motivated to score one of only a few jobs that may come up in Maun.

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