4 or 5 beers? sounds like a light night....

See you in maun!

DRS,
although not essential (from what I read, only), it'd be more competitive having 5 hours or so on it, I'd say.
Portland area doesn't sound 800km away from Silverton.
Just a thought. It's in their charter department (obviously not used as big C152 or C172) but I'd give them a call for quote. Easy.
What about Hillsboro Aviation and C206H?

I'd sent them an email and left a phone message some time ago, since their site says it's charter only. They've finally got back to me and want USD 375 per hour for the plane. The next closest is in Everett, which is about 200 miles (320 km) as the crow flies, and it's USD 350/hr, then the next one is more than 800 km away.

I normally rent a 172 for USD 96 wet, and the instructor is 40. I was thinking about getting my flight review in the 206, however I haven't flown in over a year, so it will probably be 2 or 3 hours, plus 1 or 2 ground, or USD 800 at Hillsboro. For that much I can fly 6 hours in the 172 with an instructor and renew my IR as well, and maybe even take a fun trip somewhere.

That was why I was asking if the 206 was more important than being current. And I think the answer I got back was that it would be better for me to be comfortable flying, rather than have 1 or 2 hours in a 206. I certainly can't afford 5 hours at $375 per hour.

I have flown for many years, and have had the occasional hiatus during that time, and I know that I get back in the saddle in about 2 hours of flying. And I'd need probably 3 hours IR to be comfortable again - although I would not want to go to minimums after just that much refresher. I know that the IR isn't important in Maun, but apparently one or two of the operators in Namibia are interested in the IR.

Honestly, if I had the money to do 5 hours in the 206, I think I'd rather do a few more hours in a 310, and finish my MEL instead.

By the way,

Any one there have an update? Are there a "bunch" of pilots expected to leave in January? What about over in Windhoek? I haven't decided whether to go to Maun or Namibia first.... How about the permit situation?

I had 60 hours 206 time when I showed up in Maun and no one cared in the slightest. I ended up with a job but it had nothing to do with my 206 experience. Don't waste your money.

DRS, then that's no-brainer. I didn't catch you stating you're not current. Easy choice then. I may do bit of 206 flying in Washington State or elsewhere in the US, but if, it'd be for float rating, next summer or in 2012. Two birds with one stone. 206 time, SES rating and possibly, later on MES, but that's bit hefty, at 450-500 bucks an hour dual.

All the best with job search. If you somehow don't get a gig, I'll get you a beer or two sometime next summer. I'll be mostly in McMinnville, doing some fixed and heli flying, so long the plans don't change. Or a ride in Robinson 22. I'd be interested to talk about your experiences etc.

EDIT: Guys here mentioned Wings Over Africa. They've got handful of Cessna Twins. I guess if it's them preferring IR jocks due to insurance/added bonus skills.

and you are proud of this????

aviation in africa, bunch of criminals ,yes.!
I can not believe that some professional pilots with CAA license, go down there to break rules. I would like you send me names of guys who fly overweighted, and outside limits, so we can take their license away!

How desperate are you? this is pathetic!:yuk:

Captain Superstorm
At no point did I say I was proud of this. And if you weren't so trigger fingered you would see that I have already had this arguement.
It is a unique situation here where you don't have the facilities to weigh and measure every person that sits on your aircraft. You have 6 different types of aircraft operating over 7 different companies, out into the bush.

The first time you meet the passengers is at the plane door, and I would love for you to do a weight and balance at each stop and be able to move the amount of people around each day that you get tasked with, while staying within daylight and duty hours.

You only get a generic weight of passengers and a generic weight for baggage.

Im not going to start dragging this thread down into a arguement as I have taken a lot of time to get this information online and don't want it going to waste from a holy than thou person.

So which Maun charter airline is the safest to fly with?

Overweight TO
 

I too experienced as a passenger an overweight TO out a small dirt strip in the Delta area. It was a 206 fully loaded with 6 passengers and lots of baggage in the belly compartment. The aircraft was unable to get airborne without the stall warning going off intermittently. What really bothered me was that the stall warning continued to sound during the initial climb. I noticed that the oil temp and cyl. head temps were at redline for the entire climb. The outside temp on TO was 40C.

I felt really stupid not asking the pilot to show me the weight and balance calculation prior to getting on the aircraft. This is not the way to fly a charter aircraft. The operators must just love getting inexperienced pilots so that they will continue to operate in a stupid unprofessional manner.

When I confronted the pilot after landing about the high engine temps, his response was that the engine was fresh out of overhaul and running hot was normal for this engine.

I also reported this to the tour operator and they said that the pilot should have left the baggage behind.

As a experienced pilot I will never again be a passive passenger on a light aircraft.

Some very general and rough figures for a C206? No take off graphs or anything sophisticated.

AEW = 987 kgs.
MTOW. =1,632 kgs.
Available = 645kgs.

6 x pax (5+1)@ 70kgs = 420kgs.
6x bags @ 10kgs=60kgs.
Total pax and baggage.= 480kgs.

Available for fuel = 165kgs@ 0.72 kg/litre = +/-60 US gallons?

70kgs for a pax and only 10kgs for bags? Of course it's too low but a nominal weight value is just that.

Stall warning? Function of TAS and thus temperature and air density.
So long as aircraft flown at POH recommended IAS there should be no prejudice.
EGT high? To be expected on engine after overhaul because Mixture should be enrichened to slightly over rich for first 50 or so flights.

Mathematics is not a strong point and it's obvious I know nothing about 206s but I'm sure that some of the swamp rats up in the delta do.

(lilflyboy262..this is your essential guide so I'm more than happy to delete this if you'd like.)

Misconceptions regarding stalling
 

An aircraft only stalls when the wings critical angle of attack is exceeded. This has nothing to do with TAS. If you fly an aircraft that is overgross weight then the angle of attach must be increased to produce enough lift to get that extra weight off the ground. This works up until you reach the critical angle of attack.

To climb with that extra weight the pilot had to use a slower airspeed than normal climb speed. This is what is causing the engine to overheat.

Your right about all the standard numbers you stated as being incorrect.

Don't forget to add that the wing and tailplane is usually contaminated with mud from the strips during the summer season with higher than 40c OAT.

Hence why my company now only flies with 4 pax instead of 5.

With all this jumping up and down though, I ask you one question. When was the last accident here that was caused by being overweight?
As far as I can recall. All the accidents have been from general mechanical failure that you will find in GA all around the world with the exception of a few pilot errors.

Moremi crashed a 206 2 years or so ago. If I remember right the pilot said he got caught in a downdraft after an aborted landing at either Delta or Ntswe due to a nearby thunderstorm. He was carrying 5 pax and baggage plus an infant on a lap which probably made fighting that downdraft a lot more difficult.

In 2008 near Ntsu with a New Zealand pilot at the controls. Apparently he was flying past Ntsu on a diversion when he was caught in a microburst.
In May 2001 a Moremi 206 crashed near Maun killing three New Zealanders and the South African pilot. That was the first fatal accident in the Delta for about six years.

Here's a little information from the manufacturer about the Stationair or C206 just in case anyone has forgotten how essential it is to keep a sort of mark one eyeball on the weights. It's astonishing really that the 206 is still in production. Cessna's typical 206 with Garmin kit, costs =$533,400 and a Stateside cost per hour to run a new machine of $162

Ramp Weight 3,614 lb (1,639 kg)
Takeoff Weight 3,600 lb (1,633 kg)
Landing Weight 3,600 lb (1,633 kg)
Zero Fuel Weight N/A lb (N/A kg) N/A lb (N/A kg)
Usable Fuel Capacity 522 lb (237 kg)
Typically-Equipped Empty Weight 2,241 lb (1,017 kg)
Useful Load 1,373 lb (623 kg)
Maximum Payload 1,359 lb (616 kg)
Full-Fuel Payload 851 lb (386 kg)

There's also a Turbo Stationair.

Interesting reading, but allow me to make on or two comments/statemants!

Yes, ALL the companies in Maun work on a generic W&B program and weights stipulated in our SOP and OPS Manuals.

BUT, it is still up to the pilot in command to make that judgement call to say, yes this is ALL GOOD or No you cant make this flight with these weight. Certainly in our company you are NEVER allowed to fly overweight! You do so, its at your own risk, should something go wrong, well, then face the music!

But, I'm not saying that over weight flying doesnt happen over here! Some companies turn a blind eye :eek:! Is it right.......HELL NO! :mad: :=

So, doesnt matter when you first see your pax and their ten tonnes of luggage, its your responsibility to make the right judgement call whether you can or cant fly with that weight!

The excuses about flying overweight in Maun always sound lame to me, and the problem isn't picking up a few overweight passengers or oversized bags, it is trying to squeeze 5 pax and their bags in a C206. If you see a 206 leave Maun with 5 pax and luggage it is almost certainly overweight. It has been long enough now that I dont remember the exact numbers but I knew how many standard pax and bags I could carry with a given fuel load and be legal. Even four pax is well over in some of the 206s i you have a lot of legs and are carrying a sensible reserve of fuel. At least when I was there all of the companies, even the ones that restricted 206s to 4 pax, knowingly dispatched aircraft that were grossly overweight. At least part of the reason young pilots with fresh comms are considered most desirable in Botswana is that the companies know that pilots working their first job are easiest to intimidate into flying aircraft loaded past their legal limits. To my knowledge no one has ever been fired in Maun for refusing to fly heavy, so I dont really understand why people still insist on doing it.

I believe the 2001 was a wingover at low level on a scenic flight.
The 2008 was a microburst on landing. Was low and slow. Everyone survived. Only a broken back or two.

Dear lilflyboy262

Thank you very much for your golden points.
I got my CPL/IR (Frozen ATP) from SACAA about 4 months ago and now i'm living in Iran but i don't have any motivation to stay here and look for job here so i decided to looking for a job in Africa and started with Tanzania because friend of mine was working there as a chief pilot but he left a company and backed to Iran and told me there is no chance to find a job in Tanzania anymore.

I wanna travel and visit manu but i think there is risk to spending a lots of money there then couldn't find a job.

But i'll hit the road and come there.if anyone gonna to go there in next 3 weeks please inbox me.

Regards

Maun is definitely not for you then boet. You need to be tenacious, relentless, and highly motivated to score one of only a few jobs that may come up in Maun.

I lived in SA around 2 years and i know i can adopt myself with Manu or other african countries situations.In Iran,just we can start and fly as a first officer in our airlines,there is no any general aviation and etc.As you know,getting into a airline is not easy and we have to find some contact people.I like to fly with light aeroplanes and bush flying to fly thorugh the jungles,dessert.:ok:

I must say that this kind of flying sounds like a pretty sticky sort of operation:rolleyes:

I hear the best opportunities are in Iran right now.

Well, there's a new low timer paradise called Manu? Go for 'em boys!

Heading to manu
 

I second that and FaFa would be kind enough to give us more details of manu:sad:. I also would suggest FaFa to try searching for jobs in Jordan, i saw a report in BBC saying that there is going to be a huge requirement in jordan, I have some Malaysian friends studying at the ayla academy h t t p://w w w.aylaaviation.com/. may be you will find something in jordan.... good luck

The thread seems to have slowed down a little which is a shame.
Wonder if the same can be said for the tourist trade?
Just saw a quote for a six night trip for two in Namibia. Excluding international air fares the price was SAR 85,000. That's quite a lot of €s! Expect the prices are not much different in the delta as Thompson's Holidays offer two nights ex JNB at Stanley's, Baines' or Chief's at around SAR 22,000 or around about €1,200 a night. So is business booming up there? There surely aren't too many repeats?

Hi mates, i am planning for some bush pilot job hunt in maun,botswana this coming may 2011 and as i also searched many threads:ugh: regarding this matter and found there are around 14-15 guys already hired:ok: by the operators this season up there.so i m curious:confused: to know how about going there in may season with below stated resume:O

total time= 300 hrs
intrument time=44 hrs
multi engine time=38 hrs
recently i got rated on cessna caravan 208 and cessna 206 from panam academy,USA
Other rating=C-152,172 and multi BE-55
i really appreciate if smbdy will help me regarding this:)

Go there yourself and find out. The only useful rating you have is the C206, you might be lucky to get onto the C208 after completing 1,5-2 years service.

Avio. Read the thread.

Prop~ I'm on the van after 10 months.

hmm seems interesting, why dont you endorse more ratings on your license ?? like islander, c152, piper navajo etc. so that once you go "you are through" !!!

Don't confuse the poor chap. The only people flying C152s and BNIIs are probably the BDF. As for the Navajo, well I used to have a sister in law who was one - honest Injun Mr Moderator - so I feel reasonably qualified to say that they are not particularly useful things on which to be overly familiar these days.

@proppilot-yeah mate i will be heading to maun this season to try my luck if i can be that lucky to find out job with 1 of the operators with my cessna 206 rating in my pocket.:O
Also just curious to know about those guys sitting there since 6-8 months in search of being hired and waiting for the good time to come i mean whats the problem with them aren't they rated on 206 or they are lacking in somewhat with flying hours or some other reason?:confused:

@Lilflyboy-what about the operators can't they recruit u directly for having an advantage of being rated on van.i mean indirectly after and year or so company will spend money on u for providing rating on van but in othercase if they have a choice to select readymade van pilot will operators not prefer of hiring him?or you mean to say they are seeking van pilots with 1000 hrs xperience?

(you mean to say they are seeking van pilots with 1000 hrs xperience?)

Dear heavens above, Jesus wept and Hail Mary Mother or Grace - one would certainly hope so!
Still, an aeroplane is a flying machine for all that and one man in a 206 is just as potentially lethal as another in a 208. Suppose it must all depend upon attitude and experience? Unknown quantities with no time at all to write home about suddenly roaring around the skies in a multi million PT6 driven ego machines might give even the looniest Maun operator pause for reflection. Some flyers up in the swamps seem quite adept at crashing and crunching even the simplest of flying machines. Sure, the conditions can be challenging for the newly initiated aviator so why burden him or his opinionations with something as complex to fly as a single engined aircraft that can go from splashdown to crashdown faster than a reticulated giraffe can pickpocket Selous' baccy pouch. After all, there is a CAA lurking around up there somewhere and there could be an insurance company with a flight time minimum requirement and there might be a passenger or two who knows full well that a piffly wiffly van rating doesn't make a van pilot. Isn't what they really need in Maun a decent Italian ice cream shop staffed by a couple of topless girls of melting morality having about them perhaps even a little something of the Neapolitan flavor?

Basically what CC said haha. Although I would just settle for a McDonalds and KFC.
Would be hard to get work permits as topless waitresses due to there being a large amount of local women that could do this work.

You need 1000hrs total time to begin flying on the van for most operators as a insurance requirement.
Sure it looks good on your CV but when you haven't touched a van in over a year, chances are you will need to do some refresher training and you need to do a C of T on a turbine aircraft every 6 months anyhow!
So chances are they will spend the same amount of money on either person.
And there is a hell of a difference between landing a van in the bush and landing it on a 2000m tar runway.

Atul02~ You need to do a flight test in each aircraft every 12 months, and a test in a piston, turbine, and multi every 6 months to keep your validation valid. There are no 152's in town, only a few 172's. BN2B are only operatered by 2 companies (even then it is only 1 each) or the BDF (Botswana defence force).
They are the only twins in town, everything else is single time so multi ratings count for jack.

wow.
nice work lilflyboy.

so no use hitting that continent this year, as the season passed already.
need to wait until the next season begin, i.e. by the year end.

Really? Maybe on some bush strips, but the ones in the Okavango are all around 1000m by now aren't they? Anyone half competent should be able to bring a full caravan to a stop within 600m or so without really trying too hard, just watch out for elephants. In Botswana you are definitely flying in the bush, but I don't really think any of the strips there require much in the way of "bush flying" skills to get into or out of.

and, of course, jumping or lifting the wing to clear puddles, but that's something we all do on a nice flat asphault strip, right? Keep the power on to clear be able to "fly" over the puddle?

I truely hope your taking the piss ragdragger?


@Darkroom, actually keeping the power on is the best way to go through the puddles, its on landing where you have issues, not the take off....

I only worked one year in Maun, so maybe I missed something, but I didn't think the flying was all that tough and I'm certainly no master bush pilot. It is a hard job, fast turn arounds, hot weather, long hours etc. But most of those strips are plenty long, the Mopane trees are nice and short, and there is no terrain for as far as the eye can see in any direction. Bush Flying Lite. It's not like people are hanging on the prop, crossing the fence at 65 in the van hoping to nail the threshold, you aren't landing on gravel bars or glaciers, just dirt runways. Fact is if a 250 hr pilot can master flying in bots after 50 hrs of poor quality instruction to the point where he is trusted to fly paying passengers it can't really be all that bad.
It is the most fun I've ever had in airplanes, I dig all the low level flying, and the 5 minute legs and the wildlife and I highly recommend the experience. It's a great first job. But don't try to big it up into something it's not.

Hardly worth the salary by all accounts then?