Unprofessional to use PPRUNE?
 

According to some, it's unprofessional to discuss or spread the word around on this site........................

My question.

When using CRM principles. Should you not expect to receive back, what you're dishing out?

If you don't treat your pilots like professionals, and pay them accordingly, then why expect them to react to you in a professional manner?

That's why this site exists!

If you don't like what we say, stay away!

If you have better facts, post them!

Well said 777!

An interesting choice of forum for Placido to use - perhaps he will do us a favour and have this transferred to Rumours and News - or Jetblast!:)

Jack

:hmm:

Perhaps you miss the point?

Are pilots really professionals as a body of the work force?


They are blue collar workers trained only to perform a basic skill.
They have no union representation.
They have no professional body to set standards.
They are driven by pecuniary desire, not by ethics.
They cannot, therefore, be professional.

CRM is a device engineered and manipulated by those lesser skilled members of the pilot work force. It should be ignored as an unnecessary social irritant by the vast majority of the more experienced transport workers. CRM has no principles, having as its basis only the desires of the less qualified to excuse their own deficiencies.

Posting on Pprune is an honourable action, deserving of accolades and distinctions. It is the nrearest that many pilots will ever get, in these days of automated flight, to flying an aeroplane.:p

Unprofessional?
 

Whoa gentlemen!!!
Placido, may I enquire as to where you obtained this bombshell?
777contrail is quite correct.
To cavortingcheetah, what you posted, is that what you feel to be the status quo or is that the way you see things?
This forum is one of the few remaining outlets for people involved in the aviation industry to be heard.
Many issues have been resolved through these forums.
I find this website very professional and will continue to make use of it and I urge all to keep it that way.
Fly safely and to all the professionals out there-keep on posting, you are all doing a great job!:D

:)

Cheetahs preserve their balance in nature by maintaining the status quo.
From time to time, however, they run with utmost speed and grace.
Sometimes in the dead of night, or so it is rumoured on the plains of Africa, the laughter of the cavortingcheetah may be heard singing to the moon.
This is perhaps because the local idiots have stolen part of the fence that surrounds the Kruger Park. Many lions have escaped and are now killing and eating the cattle of the local tribesmen. Soon perhaps the lions will start to eat the local tribesmen. There are a lot of those on the plains of Africa. Many have moved down from north of the Limpopo. They disturb the balance of nature. They, the lions that is, you understand, are being shot by rangers. Lions eat Cheetah cubs. Lions are the Cheetahs' main predator. Cheetah is most grateful to these indigent stealers of wire fences who have done this. They have helped to preserve the status quo.:ooh:

I think, from reading the odd post from the Cheetah, who incidently is the only cat who cannot retract its claws, i am sure he writes in jest.

Unprofessional?
 

cavortingcheetah, Whatever you are on I am sure there is someone who would like some as well! Not me!

I know exactly where you are coming from, read the exact same notice, was wondering about the dual role that the author has in representing our and their interest, and the comments made especially towards this site are outa line totally, this is still a free country and freedom of speech is still a basic constitutional right when I last checked. :=:=:=

Whichever company it is sounds a little paranoid. Something to hide?

Cavortingcheetah
 

The only big cat that purrs, beware a cat that purrs and doesn't retract it's claws

Placido,

Unprofessional? It all depends on how you define unprofessional, and in what context you put it.

For a journalist working for the aviation media I would probably find it on the edge of being unprofessional to use pprune and an alias instead of his own media tool. But for all other aviation workers, and not aviation workers, pprune is a tool to flash opinions whenever we have something to say. We could try to be heard in other medias, but then we would have to stand straight talking with our real identity, and I believe very few of us want to do that.

I do no not particularly like the use of alias when I post. But out of necessity to guard my professional position it is necessary. Unfortunately, because too many managers and decision maker take a personal offense to som of the discussions on this site. And in turn it can backfire on you. It should not be like this, but hey, we're not living in a perfect world.

But since we have the possibility to hide behind an alias, may be we should be careful using full names when we talk/write about others. It's too easy to kick people on pprune, and I wonder if we would do so if we had to write under our real identity. Think not. One exception that springs to mind is the thread about the preliminary investigation report involving the Arik Air chairman and some official person in Nigeria. As long as a report like this is pasted on this site with names in it I cannot see any problems using names. Having mentioned that report, where did it go? I cannot find it anymore. Did the site police delete it? And if so, why?

Many here are in the same boat as you. They want to relate problems and get some answers. For the most part that can be done here and yes one must use anonymity so that it does not bite them at their place of employment.
Some of us could care less and getting canned would be just another excuse for a party.....right Sasless??
As to "Professionals", in the states that is shortened to "Pros". Pros are usually refered to as Prostitutes. As a Helicopter Pilot in the states that IS an acceptable description.

:hmm:
Speaking of which, whether we were or we weren't, we were recently in Washington DC.
The streets, while not being paved with gold, are liberally festooned with flashing signs urging drivers to 'slow down for peds.'
Whilst we might decrease speed for pros, depending upon need for in flight entertainment; as a responsible father, eager to continue to contribute towards the welfare of society, we neither reduce velocity nor alter the mercedes star target sight for paedophiles.:eek:

:oh::oh::oh::oh:

Having Said That:

The person who made the Arik post removed it and thus the thread. Their perogative.

Meanwhile back at the topic: The numbers of management who read everyday and contribute are countless. Danny and I are perpetually baffled at conferences, shows and functions at how those with their own parking place feel they have to let us know how long they've been fans. Neither of us has had a job interview in the last 10 years where talking about PPRuNE hasn't been a major part.

Going on our flying it would appear that crew notice is spot on.....

Rob

"It should be ignored as an unnecessary social irritant by the vast majority of the more experienced transport workers"

:D

PPRuNe Towers,

It is indeed up to the person who starts a thread to remove it if so desired. Only sad that he/she selected to remove an interesting thread giving us an insight in the preliminary investigating report involving a huge amount of money and a person heading a Nigerian airline set out to be the leader in Nigeria, and internationally I believe.

With reference to what is said about managers and aviation leaders reading and participating in threads on pprune, one can only wonder why this thread was removed :hmm: Let's hope the development of this investigation is posted on pprune whenever someone has news to tell.

Well, I think it is all too sad when management of an airline starts to ask their pilots not to voice their opinions about what is going on in their airline!

Good for those managers that see these forums for what they are,

a source of information, and an insight into the true feelings of their workers.

If a director thinks workers are too scared to air their true feelings to his face, he should ask HIMSELF, why?

Generally speaking....airline managements don't give a darn what pilots think...they are paid to drive the bus, then go home.
Suits me fine.
And yes, I'm in management presently, and I really don't care what the pilots think, as long as they do the job for which they are paid....and oddly enough, they do.
Same same when I was a regular line pilot.

Now, if the pilots (as a group) want to buy a part of the company, then it is entirely reasonable that the pilots (again, as a group) would/should have a say in day to day operations....future planning as well.

Having said this, perhaps it's best if the pilots don't have much to say about future planning, as many of these same pilots have gone through a couple of wives already....:ugh::}