propflyer 43
 

43 is one of the best flying schools around.

I was a student and then an instrustor there - now flying commercially in Europe along with a few others after doing my JAR licence - excellent training

I've heard a rumour that 43 has got JAA approval from the Irish Aviation Authority. Can anyone verify this cause it sounds to good to be true.
:ok: :ok:
Shot!!!!

The rumours aren't rumours, they're true!

Only for certain selected Irish students.

JAA approval for 43rd!
 

Im writing to verify that the school HAS got JAA approval fromm the IAA but unfortunatly it is for selected cadets only! Sigmar Aviation in conjunction with City Jet are running a new course down there as a new form of recruitment. There are 5 of us flying down there on the 16th of March.

Flown with a couple of cadets who graduated from 43 in 2005. Not impressed. Low time instructors are trying teach advance skills - and failing miserably. I just call it the way i see it. The airline not too happy with 43 either!

Everyone has their own opinion. I didn't train at 43 but I work with someone who did. He was there in 2001 and just started flying Barons. He reckons 43 used to be great but now aren't the best. If you're a private student maybe look elsewhere as they give preference to airline cadets, with regards to aircraft bookings, etc, unfortunate but true. Don't think that 43 is the only school in S.A. there are plenty of other schools in the country that are as good or better than 43 and preferance is certainly not given to 43 guys when it comes to jobs, certainly not at the companies I've worked at. Also heard rumours that SAA aren't entirely satishfied with the training and a couple of cadets were washed during their intership with SAX. I say again I didn't train there but this is what I heard from guys who have. Hope this helps. :)

What about Algoa in PE or FTC in George in comparison? I heard nothing but good things about Algoa on this forum. I personally know someone who flew with FTC and liked the school. However, I believe that the aircraft availability at FTC (on the twin in specific) is rather unreliable.

hour building
 

hi there
how much is piper rental at 43?
thanks

UAU242......GOOD MOVE...MO CAMARADE
 

:ooh: Looks that are you are getting ready for the MK joyride...Hmmm...wanna be a step ahead....GOOD PLANNING:ok:

some mothers' children
 

reptile i might have my head totally up my own :mad: here but it seems to me that anywhere you go instructors will generally be low time guys looking to build hours... obviously thats a generalisation but i would say fairly accurate.
the good thing about 43 is that the programme is structured in such a way that even low time instructors cant fail miserably- heres a thought.... maybe the problems not the organisation but the pilot that trained there!

it does look like they favour contracts with airline cadetts now, but private people still go through at a fair pace despite the sometime bad weather- anyone notice the great weather we've been having in jhb lately;)

Absolutely right! I'm just an observer from the airlines point of view. 43 was selected to provide training for airline cadets. When you want to provide a service like that, you need to deliver a product that meets the clients expectation. It is in that respect that I believe 43 failed. The cadets thet were trained in Oz were by no means Yeagers', but they were noteably superior to the 43 product.

Low time instructors is a symptom of the industry. Whe can burn that bridge on another thread at another time. :ok:

43 the best ya right
 

I have been in aviation for approximately 15 years. I have flown with many pilots over the years and 43 graduates do not rate in my top 10. One thing I will give them is 10 out of 10 for their arrogance/confidence. However arrogance when they are wrong is a dangerous thing. They believe that they know all and no one can teach them anything!

I have been in many situations with these "gods gift to aviation" pilots and they are in a word SHOCKING. When they come out of the promised land of flying they really lack basic skills! I am fortunately in an airline now and only on occasion have to fly with these Chuck Yeager's of SA aviation.

The truth be told the idea of 43 is great but the attitude that comes with that licence is not worth the money! I have sent my kids some where else to learn the skills required to be a good and competent pilot.

I have flown with many competent pilots and alot of 43 products but initial they should realise they are small fishs in a big pond.

I have had the misfortune of meeting a pilot from 43 lately who is after a few months is a training Captain on a reasonable sized aircraft and son you have alot to learn.

This is not a personal attack but this is the truth!

In all honesty and I would recommend many other schools. But you make up your own mind.

wifepilot
 

43 Airschool caters for kids that need discipline and a wake up call in the morning. They spoonfeed. So if your wife is older than 20 ( if not ..lucky you ) I suggest you send her off to a smaller school that gives a more personal deal. It 's guaranteed to be cheaper too - 43 is well known for being the most expensive. Also must agree with the statement someone made about experience of instructors. Many other schools will have a better mix of instructors eg. some will actually have some aviation experience - as opposed to the ones at 43 who has mainly never been further than the PE tma. Not saying there is anything wrong with low time instructors - they are good at teaching basics but a few hours with someone that has actually flown a commercial aircraft is worth a lot - especially towards the end of the COM training.

Leon,
I read flyinginireland occasionally and happened to pop in there for a read this evening. For some reason the site wont take any replies on your topic :rolleyes: :rolleyes: and I remebered that you had posted on here about this cadetship.
This probably should not be posted on a public forum but Im in a daring mood and I am seriously pi:mad: off for lack of a better phrase. Also thought it might get a good debate going :E :E You do realise that the scheme that leon is talking of is costing 6 irish students 95 000 euro's to do ALL training at 43 apart from the IR test which ofcourse being JAA has to be done in JAA airspace. Once the course has been completed (frozen ATPL - 300 hours max) cityjet may or may not offer you employment. From my understanding ,and Leon by all means correct me on this, a substantial deposit is required.
Im not going to say anymore as its just going to get my blood pressure rising and its just not worth it but by all means feel free to comment. :E :E :ok: :ok:

The stigma
 

I whent to 43 did the hole twin com if thing.
and its been 3 years and 5 months since i left.
I really enjoyed my time there and the training was very good, but thats not the problem!

When you leave there you are marked for life. As a nother 43 guy.
There are pilots out there on conracts at some companys that imediatly treat you like s:mad: t because you just hapen to do your training.

So be-awear of the mark:ugh:

not all 43 pilots suck
 

JETwash

Please don’t generalize I know there are some arrogant numb nuts from 43,
But don’t treat them all like idiots give them a fear chance firs.
I when’t to 43, and did my eye’s go open when I left. I learned more about flying in the firs six months after I left than I did in the entire year there.

But unfortunately 4 years later and I still get the stigma from time to time.
Its is utter non-sens .


My opinion spoiled brats make arrogant pilots and there are a lot of those at the most expensive school in the country.

Bottom line, it's up to the individual to have the right attitude - you get good pilots from 43, as well as bad, just like any other flight school - although the syllabus at 43 is supposed to be fairly comprehensive, so they should have at least covered all the bases. To assume that somebody is rubbish because they trained at a certain flight school is just plain silly and premature - you at least have to get an idea of that particular persons approach to aviation, before you start getting all overexcited. Likewise, anybody with an attitude of 'I did my training at XXX flight school, so you can all lick my boots now' deserves a good kick in the pants. Again, it's down to their attitude.

My 2c.

Why does it always turn into a scrap on PPrune?

I have no special affiliation to any school. Although harsh I think jetwash has told alot of truths in his posting! I have also been exposed to alot of 43 products and honestly they do have an attitude.

Saying that I am also in the contract world and I dont agree that the old contract guys treat the 43's like crap! If anything the guys I have worked with have been absolute gentleman. I have learnt so much from these guys. Maybe the 43's could be more open to the idea that you can't learn everything in the circuit and on the way to PE!

Does it really matter what school you come from. When you leave the flying school, how much do you really know anyway? You have to realise that your training has only just begun. Trust me it, it never stops.

Good luck to all.

After reading all the posts i have a few questions:
1. How many hours do you need to be regarded as a 'low-time' instructor? As far as i know none of the SAA Cadets are instructed by instructors with any less than 500 hours of instruction. And that is the MINIMUM requirement.They also have to be at least Grade II and are therefore mostly senior instructors.
"Flown with a couple of cadets who graduated from 43 in 2005. Not impressed. Low time instructors are trying teach advance skills - and failing miserably. I just call it the way i see it. The airline not too happy with 43 either!"3rd March 2006 22:36 REPTILE
Unlike many other flying schools, a new instructor at 43 has to work himself up in the system. he only teaches PPL's and after completing 4 of those, he can continue with the next phase, and so it continues. They are constantly being monitored by a quality control manager who has over 40 years of instruction experience. Failing miserably? I think they are doing very well considering some of the material they are given to work with. I don't know of any other school with such a good, structured system. Every hour flown has a specific exercise which has to be completed satisfactorily. No low-level flying with your mates to build your hours...

2. "Also heard rumours that SAA aren't entirely satisfied with the training and a couple of cadets were washed during their intership with SAX. " Flyer 14
The Cadets are trained up to Comm standard and they are passed by External DE's who are not involved with the air school. So they definitely meet Comm standard. That is 43's job done. Going onto a Dash 8 is a lot to ask of someone with a brand new comm. They will obviously require extra training. Any person would in that situation. How much did you guys know after 200 hours? You cannot teach someone to be an airline pilot in 200 hours. Experience is something that comes with time
3. As far as the attitude issue is concerned... I have had the unfortunate experience of having an arrogant student from another school swear at me and my students and making racist remarks while taxying behind us, on frequency at Lanseria... His PTT got stuck and didn't realise it. This continued for about 5 minutes. I'm not going to mention the school, because- guess what- it's not a very well-known school anyway. So nobody cares. But when it comes to 43... What i'm trying to say is that you will find arrogant people everywhere. It is not the instructor's job to teach a person something his parents should have done. We can try but in the end it is up to the individual.I completely agree with STRONG MEDICINE
"maybe the problems not the organisation but the pilot that trained there!"
STRONG MEDICINE
In conclusion i would like to say that no flying school is perfect and there is always room for improvement. We know that there is a world outside 43. But you have to start somewhere, and in my opinion 43 is the best place to have your basic flying foundation laid down.
:ok:

Just a stab in the dark here - but are you employed by 43?

Guy!...Guy!.....(said with appropriate accent)

I suppose you had to have been there.

some information about 43 air school please
 

Hi everybody :)

I am new member on this forum. I am a student in a business school . After reflexion, I am more and more interested to become a airline pilot:p .

I heard about 43 air school and read some positive comments:ok: . It seems to be a great school... But really expensive:ooh: lol.

I would like to ask you some questions :

-How can we integrate this school? By exams? Because my main problem is that my level in math is low...Will it be a problem?:sad:

-What is exactly the price for all the training period and how long is it?

- When the lessons start? In january?

That's all for the moment:E

You will notice that my english is not so good lol But I will do a training period of 6 months for my last year in my business school in an English country to improve it :O

Thanks in advance for your answers ;)

UP please:ouch:

There have been MANY posts on this forum with a wide variety of views on this subject. Read through some of the old posts and decide for yourself.

Air Mauritius is starting their cadet scheme there shortly- maybe you should find out more info from them in this regard and see what comes of it.

out of interest....

43 Air School PA is the 2nd busiest flight school IN THE WORLD!!

69

Thanks for your answer. I just found one subject and there is no answer for my questions...:{ . Except one about the price 93 000 euros:p

Welcome to the forum Greg.
It is expensive. They are the biggest in the country and in Africa. Their approach to training is quite formal. They try to impose more than a shade of discipline. Think of it as a type of boarding school. Whether you would enjoy it there depends on you. If you learn quickly and don't mind a bit of discipline then it is the place for you.
They will ask to see your school results to get an idea of whether you will cope. I wouldn't say the academic level is as high as University, but there is a HUGE amount of information that you have to take in in a SHORT space of time. There are 8 separate commercial exams to write in only 1 week of exams. The school prepares you well for these, and standards are set HIGH in the regular tests so as to ensure you do your best in the finals. The PPL exams are written on computers at the base. If you don't pass these first time you can write again. If you mess up too many times they might ask you to leave. It only gets more difficult...
You do need maths. One of the books you get for the course is called "Maths for Comm" and it refers to a Standard 9 requirement- {from the old SA school system - which ended with Std. 10}. The ASA CX-2 flight computer is standard (but only post PPL level), as is the Casio Fx82 calculator. Chapters in the book are:- Simple Arithmetic; Simple Algebra & Simple Formulae; Cross Multiplication; Percentages; Vectors; Averages; Trig; One in 60 Rule {a rule of thumb based on trig} and finally, Interpolation {working out what the next or missing number should be in a column of figures}. Most of this is either for Flight Planning & Performance or Navigation. Speed is quite important. You don't want to end up 10 Km off course while you try and work out some calculations! If you feel Maths will be a problem, ask the school to send you the Maths notes and do some practise examples before you get there. Get the contact details from their website and send them a letter. Don't leave it too late because there is probably a long waiting list already.
A great asset is having Geography as a school subject!
Last time I looked it was roughly R1000 per hour of flying training (incl. fuel). Also more than R150 a day for accomodation (incl. food). They work on a system where you pay an initial deposit of around R15000 before you arrive. You then pay money in to your account to keep it in credit, and it will get deducted whenever you 'purchase' something - like all the notes, some shirts, exam fees etc. The school will give you an idea of estimated final cost via a an initial quote. Remember they will not know whether you need 3 hours to learn something new or just 2. The weather will also play a factor and keep you at the base a bit longer. Expect to be at 43 for a year at least to get your Comm.
They have several intakes during the year. I don't recall exactly, but the intakes are arranged something like January/April/July/October. This is so they can fill the class - and they expect each person in the class to progress at much the same rate throughout the course. It's about allocating time and resources.
Make sure your English is polished. The exam questions are difficult enough for native English speakers to understand as it is. Maybe they were written by a Greek person??

Gday
You could go to sie Luftwaffen 43 Cadetten Flughschule. Or you could save cash and go somewhere cool like Progress, FEDAIR etc and get the same Licence and have more fun same time.

Auf Wiedersehen

Dont be a party pooper!

Arnie

German is not on the syllabus or I would recommend you go there for a refresher course :E

The school is not perfect, it's not Stalag Luft V(:= ), but is does have a reputation in the aviation world that will help you get employment when you leave.

Ex-inmates have a vested interest in encouraging the school to maintain high standards.

Flying is not a game and the students do not go there to have a ball. Like any other college, students socialise, play sport, swim and enjoy themselves in the pub. They also spend time moaning about facilities, staff attitude etc., but when they look back, it was all part of the '43 experience'. It made them a better pilot.

Thats debatable. I've also heard of rabid 43 haters (heard that from an excellent source, it's still baffling to me though) in the pilot community, but never met any personally. I went there, but you still need to be just as lucky as the next guy to get work - merely having gone to 43 won't get you a job. I don't know how it's viewed now though, perhaps things have changed. As for discipline - well, I'd just come from the military, so for me it bordered on a hippy commune in that regard! It's all relative.

But I had fun. I don't know if I'd do it again though, at the end of the day you can save a lot of money by not going there while still getting great results, as long as you remember that more is placed on your shoulders in terms of actively seeking knowledge and study material, and being disciplined and focused in each flying lesson you take.

Thank you very much for all these information DawnTreader :ok: .

I will follow your advises;)

Just to set record straight. I am in no means saying that 43 is good or bad, but implying that there are indeed many pilots in the South African aviation industry who have done very well who have not attended 43!

It is not always the institution that provides the result, more so the individual concerned.

I have heard this a few times, guys comparing Comm to University, having done both I can assure you a Comm is no where near university level (Engineering or any Maths related field)..........all you need to get a Comm is basic maths and lots of learning....thats it, no magic talent needed.

Why not try Progress flight Academy, Airline Pilots Training Academy (APTRAC)......both in Port Elizabeth, they are both full time live in training institutions and in my opinion will give you what you need at half the price, in fact, I think 43 is overated and overpriced..........shop around, there are also schools in Johannesburg and Cape Town which may interest you, 43 relies on there name alot but unless you are rolling in cash I would not bother with 43. For your information APTRAC is run by a SAA training captain with very nice equipment and standards, if you are interested in an Airline career I would go there.

Yeah, I wanted to comment on this too - there's no way a Comm is even vaguely in the academic league of an Engineering degree for example. Those who complain of sweating for a few CPL/ATP exams should try something serious at University. One test week later and you'll think the CAA exams are a joke.

And Fluffyfan's advice is good - it's tough to justify the (much) larger outlay at 43 when frankly Progress etc do a fine job too.

Hi pineteam,
If it's of any relevance to what you're asking, CHC/Aero Contractors, which is probably the largest helicopter operator in Africa now send all their Nigerian sponsored ab-initio helicopter students to School 43, so I guess they rate it as a good school. I'm told that they're happy with the standard of the new pilots when they arrive back in Nigeria to go on to their conversions to the SA365 or S76.

I reccommend Partial Differential Equations 101 as a starter. :rolleyes:

My nemesis was Engineering maths (204 I think?), and Strength of Materials, also second year. Ugh, cold shivers again! I still consider the subjects to be impossible, and that everybody else bribed the lecturer behind my back to pass!

I didn't want to get to0 deep in the Uni - Comm comparison in my original reply.

I've also done University and Comm. I can only say it takes quite a different mindset to answer multiple choice questions. In an academic exam you can justify or even prove your answer is correct but with comm it is right or wrong. (In fact you can also be wrong even if you are 100% right.)

Also, I can assure you that at University you DO NOT get such a vast quantity of such diverse information to absorb in such a SHORT time. You also have longer than 7 days to complete 8 exams. The two require a completely different approach & preparation.:ugh:

Seems the topic has changed???

Anyway having done both as well, no comparison. Studied for com in 1 1/2 month of evenings and weekends. ATP in about 3 weeks. Mech Eng took 4 years of hard graft. Com is a lot of material but its mostly memorising facts, not much analysis or interpretation and no deriving new results from understanding of the underlying principles.

Multiple guess is easy. In many cases you can work out the answer by a process of elimination. And you don´t have to write all the exams in a week.

That said it does take a lot of work to pass the com and ATPL exams, and is an achievement to pass them - but its not rocket science. Just perserverance.