poorwanderingwun,

Thanks for the insight. I wanted to hear from someone who is/was on the inside as that's the most accurate info.

We've all worked for someone along the way who has "disdain" for their pilots. But, I'm a bit surprised to hear that ASI management does. It's one thing to mistreat pilots in comfortable, safe, domestic jobs, but the demanding work for modest pay at ASI would seem to dictate a good deal of respect for the line pilots considering what they're asked to do.

Apparently, ASI isn't concerned about ( or doesn't have much ) pilot turnover ? Doesn't it take some time to get a new pilot up to speed for that type work ? My guess is that a constant stream of new pilots would, at some point, hamper the operation. Just a guess by an uninformed outsider...

Thanks again for the info.

Not a bad org. but has some serious re-shuffeling to do.(which they busy doing, but i wander if it is bennificial to ASI, certainly for the sub contractor they using) The orriginal ASI beiing out there for the cause/calling, has sadly been lost . Might be a non-profit org. , kills me to see sub contractors for ASI making a killing, and there pilots get preference over ASI employees. Why they not making use of other contractors thats more professional, beats me, i can only speculate!
If you seeking adventure, flying for ASI will fill your need, there's a great bunch off guys working there.Country-directors! thats a total different topic!!!, not enough time to talk about that.

...re. Airserv's own pilots, just ask yourself what calibre of pilot would be doing this work for half the salary they can get back home unless there was some reason why they can't get such a decent job back home ?

(And no, it's not because of 'the calling'; they bitch worse than anyone if they think they aren't getting the S&T that so-and-so is getting on a similar contract.)

Also, check out the reality of AirServ's apparently perfect safety record (yeah, right) and see the type of pilot - AirServ or Contractor - who was flying in the vast majority of cases....

As for :

'Doesn't it take some time to get a new pilot up to speed for that type (of) work ?'

for SA pilots it's business as usual: dirt strips and incomprehensible ATC, negligible navaids and the worst weather in the world, but for the generally North American or European AirServ pilots, oh yes, as they wet their pants when they can't get radar vectors and an ILS approach.

airserv
 

The post above from goaround7 reveals one of the main problems in Airserv - there are two systems operating simultaneously within the organization. It is difficult enough to make one aviation organization function smoothly but it's a nightmare when it subcontracts a lot of its work to a second organization. Hence N and ZS aircraft with two sets of pilots and engineers with different SOPs, regulations, salaries, and so on. This lends itself to major finger pointing on a variety of issues. I could give a few stories supporting the above post and many more contradicting it. In terms of experience there are beginners and veterans in both sets of pilots. Sanity and competence or the lack of it are also equally distributed. The maintenance standards are definitely lower on the contractor side with many of their planes either grounded most of the time or flying with squacks that would have the FAA grounding the fleet. The cash salaries are higher for the contractor pilots but those who have worked for both the contractor and Airserv itself prefer the benefits that come with working directly for Airserv. (There are RSA pilots working for Airserv directly who worked for the contractor in the past. You do not find the reverse). Aside from insurance and so on, Airserv pilots continue to collect their salaries while travelling and when a political crisis or maintainance issues keep them from flying. For example, when the contractor aircraft is grounded for eight weeks in a row due to its inability to send parts to keep it fixed, the Airserv pilots assigned to fly it continue to collect their pay while hanging out on the ground.

The comment about "what type of pilot would work for half the salary they could get at home," is not really fair. The salaries are fine for the beginners relative to American ones and less so for experienced King Air Captains. What's relevant to understanding the situation is that you have different social samples. South African pilots are a relatively normal cross section of their pilot community. They are in Africa because they were born there and are working on the continent outside their country because that's what they have to do to make the next step in aviation. Often they are looking to emigrate. This is neither good nor bad, but a fact. The non-South African pilots are eccentric to the pilot communities they come from. They have made a choice to go to Africa. This choice is a tangent to their careers and often is a step away from a normal pilot career. In addition to a sincere desire to do humanitarian work you will find people who want to do missionary work, who want to try out African women, or who want adventure, and yes, there are probably some who don't quite fit into the mainstream of the normal pilot community and have passed on the chance to get a normal airline job. This too is neither good nor bad, but a fact. Having done both I would rather make less money flying Doctors Without Borders to a dirt strip in Africa than a lot of money flying a businessman to a golf game in Dallas.

How the controversy with the contractor shakes out remains to be seen.

looking at the big picture
 

Homing Pigeon; I like your circumspect and un-biased view of the whole issue. Your summary of this situation re. Airserv could be applicable to any of the other contract companies out there (past and present) flying in rather less than ideal conditions.
Sounds like you speak from actual experience unlike some of the other critics???

Bafanguy, it's a simple approach. Believe nothing of what you hear and half of what you see and you won't go wrong. If you are keen for whatever reason go and check it out. I'm assuming no-one is holding a gun to your head and you want to progress onto something bigger, better, and faster. I know most of the Airserv engineers in my neck of the woods and a few of the pilots and would back them any day.

Goaround7, making a comment like;
"Also, check out the reality of AirServ's apparently perfect safety record (yeah, right) and see the type of pilot - AirServ or Contractor - who was flying in the vast majority of cases...."

All I can say is that when, and I mean when, not if, the day comes when you will be called upon to use some of that vast aviation experience you so obviously have, I hope the scale tilts in your favour..........
Before you get carried away; No, I do not work for AirServ or the contractor and never have. I do however, have a little experience of the contract flying environment.
:sad: :sad: :hmm:

goaround7
 

You are truely an unhappy and disgruntled fool. When I went to Air Serv I came from an airline and check and training background and left a corporate jet position to experience 'the other side' of aviation. I sure as hell didnt take the pay cut to work for Air Serv because I was underqualified and couldnt find other work.

Be careful spouting off about things you obviously know nothing about. You couldnt possibly know that Bafanguy is an experienced pilot with many thousands of hours of heavy jet time! I sincerely doubt he needs a gig like Air Serv.....

...so what're you doing there ? Just makes my point.

That said, I think Homing Pigeon's post is pretty fair and unbiased. It's particulary relevant to the issue we were discussing, unlike Mjbow2 who's off on a rant, which was the difficulty that new non African pilots have with Africa. AirServ management is stuck in the middle : they know they cannot condone different standards, especially on an N registered aircraft but they've been around and also know that 'this is Africa,' and it's not for sissies.

Often puts their pilots in an impossible position. I've seen one rant for twenty minutes, making a series of very valid but totally impossible points before resigning in a huff, when the Chief Pilot tried to make him see the reality of the position. I actually sympathised with the AirServ pilot for feeling 'set up' but he was unwilling or unable to see that inflicting America on Africa (or anywhere else for that matter) ain't going to work.

Regarding:

'For example, when the contractor aircraft is grounded for eight weeks in a row due to its inability to send parts to keep it fixed,'

the other side of this story ( I am not saying which is truer) is that the AirServ pilots deliberately sabotaged this contract by grounding the aircraft for a ridiculous series of trivial issues until the contractor had to bring the aircraft home. Again possibly, the duality problem cos the SA pilots were happy to fly the aircraft.

Mjbow2, are you still there then ? I know full well what happens in the AirServ African operations and if you read back over the posts you'll see we were refering to how long it takes to bring newbies up to speed, not experienced pilots to 'relearn' old prop and turbo prop practices.

On the financials, I stand my ground. Yes, take a break and put something back if you must but don't pretend it's for any other reason than to make you feel good about yourself. The best of the best don't fly turbo props around Africa for a pitiful salary that they moan apart and go out of their way to ground aircraft for the tiniest snags. At least not for long. Of those that do MOST of these folk have no life outside 'sacrificing themselves for Africa', few interpersonal skills and no real understanding of African life. North American and European view points don't help.

It's back to the duality of whether you want the job done or you want it not to happen while you wait to do it by the book.

Seems you are letting the passion that lead you to do whatever you do/did for AirServ cloud your logic a little. Unfortunately that's true of many NGO operations and defeats the object of their good intentions. AirServ is not the worst in that respect but WITH EXCEPTIONS, the quality of pilot is inferior WHEN IT COMES TO the particular attitude and skills required to get the job done in Africa. This is mainly the ability (willingness) to understand that there are other ways of doing things than the 1st world way. Does that satisfy you a little ?

Tokoloshe, you make my point. AirServ is 'holier than thou' but always finds a way to make the bent aircraft their pilots created somebody else's fault. Again, this underlines HP's insightful comment about the duality of an FAA type organisation trying to do something productive without ever (?) having an accident or compromosing on eg. MEL - it can't be done in Africa nor in many of the places where AirServ most wants to operate and to be fair, is most needed.

Bafanaguy - can you live and work in a duality ?

So, what do you guys think is the solution to a happy'r Airserv?

The inevitable - no duality. One set of pilots has to go.

All depends if AirServ wants to oversee the job getting done or not....?

Goaround….

Sorry mate, but you’re baiting the wrong airman and I cant let this one slide. Unfortunately, the topic was not about the difficulty that new non African pilots have with Africa. It had moved on from some generic information solicited by Bafanguy to a general observation of the cause of most problems faced by Air Serv employed pilots by Homing Pigeon. So don’t deflect my post as a rant as that would be so very convenient for you if it didn’t hit so close to the mark.

You see, we are all made quite aware before leaving Virginia that its simply not the same 135/121 standards that we are used to. But to be confronted with an attitude like yours, that we must be sissies and that we must drop all our standards for no other reason than ‘this is Africa’ is ludicrous and reminds me of the contract Mx technicians’ attitudes.

Your reference to the European and American (non African) pilots being sissies merely highlights your recalcitrant GA attitude that will leave South African pilots and African aviation in general in the dark ages. From my experience and other Air Serv pilots experience that I have worked with, we found it near impossible to have the Mx folks MEL items that were legitimately MELable let alone fix things that were not MELable in a timely manner dispite our initial acceptance to fly a categorically unairworthy aircraft in the interest of not shutting down the operation.

Let me offer you the other side of the ‘reality’ that this chief pilot tried to offer the ‘unwilling’ pilot. Your first flight as an Air Serv pilot reveals 9 defects on the aircraft 5 of which are MELable (but never MELed). Mx contractor insists that ‘we don’t write things up…. Its ok, we have the parts on order… yeah I know about that one, don’t write it up… oh yeah that always been like that, the parts on its way, I ordered it last week… its actually not broken, it’s an indication problem… Raytheon has the part on back order… I know it doesn’t check properly but its actually working, don’t write it up’. After weeks and weeks of ‘reminding’ Mx and your chief pilot about the defects, nothing is done. You investigate these ongoing problems and find that they have been brought to the attention of the chief and Mx 18 months previously and numerous times subsequently. Huh….

QUOTE
'For example, when the contractor aircraft is grounded for eight weeks in a row due to its inability to send parts to keep it fixed,'

You realise Mx has been lying to you about these parts…they were NEVER ordered! Now those ‘series of very valid but totally impossible points’ seem to take on a new light. Air Serv pilots (non African) compromise their standards time and time again just to help out in a difficult situation. These ‘deliberate sabotage’s’ you speak of are merely pilots reaching the end of their rope with a stubborn recalcitrant regime unwilling to even feign improving standards and end up refusing aircraft on ALL unairworthy standards regardless of how seemingly trivial.

Now, here is the Caveat to this little routine. The South African contract pilots, especially the lower time ones who have a ‘rubber stamped’ type rating from old mate down in Lanseria, don’t argue with home office in Wonderboom who threaten them with pulling them out if they don’t shut up and fly the damn plane.

So here we have Air Serv Pilots who want to improve the standards, a third party Mx contractor who’s brief is to have the planes fly as many hours as possible , as cheaply as possible, otherwise Air Serv cant get billed for the flying that is cancelled due Mx deficiencies. And the middle man, Naturelink supplying and endless line of poorly qualified juniors who can’t say no to unemployment.

I agree that the first and the third world aviation environs don’t provide a good match. Air Serv should lose the contractors and have their own Mx, planes and pilots. They could do it and most likely save a bundle on the retail like charges they get from Naturelink and NAC Mx. But Goaround…

QUOTE
"take a break and put something back if you must but don't pretend it's for any other reason than to make you feel good about yourself"

I never offered you a pretence on why I joined Air Serv. Your Presumptuous arrogance is astounding.

QUOTE
"the quality of pilot is inferior WHEN IT COMES TO the particular attitude and skills required to get the job done in Africa. This is mainly the ability (willingness) to understand that there are other ways of doing things than the 1st world way.”

QUOTE
‘North American and European view points don't help’

QUOTE
"oh yes, as they wet their pants when they can't get radar vectors and an ILS approach."

(Ive flown with enough South African pilots who would get lost on radar vectors.)

QUOTE
"Airserv's own pilots, just ask yourself what calibre of pilot would be doing this work for half the salary they can get back home unless there was some reason why they can't get such a decent job back home?"


The skills to fly in the third world can be picked up pretty damn quickly by any mediocre pilot Goaround. But you’re right about us not sharing your same xenophobic, recalcitrant attitude!

goaround7...

The penny just dropped. Your wife is also a Naturelink pilot if I'm not mistaken.

MJB

Forgive asking a basic question, but this is all new to me. I see mention of Airserv pilots and "contract pilots". What is the difference? If one works for Airserv, are all the pilots who fly on a particluar project not Airserv employees ?

Quick question for you guys over there about this point. How often should I be calling and pushing them? I did the eval/interview last fall and got the "welcome aboard" letter and put in the pool. I talk to them every couple of months and always get the same answer from Stephanie of "excellent, we have quite a few openings right now, I'll call you in a couple of days." Then I don't hear anything until I call again a month later. What the heck? How long did it take once you got hired and put in the pool to actually go? Thanks for any advice you have...

Andy

'Your Presumptuous arrogance is astounding.'

Wow ! Coming from you and the whole tone of your latest rant, I feel I am in rare company indeed. I thought I could only dream of reaching such an accomplished level of vanity and condescension...

You and your equally inappropriate colleagues were all sent packing because of exactly what you mention in your post - you just don't get it.

As for the resolution of the issue, which surely everyone reading this wants, I think it'll be the AirServ pilots making sure their CVs are up to date. Africa and the rest of the world isn't going to change so you lot will have to or just stay where you belong hiding in the simulator.

And no, I don't think Naturelink has any lady pilots right now and my wife doesn't work for them; I think I know who you mean and I wouldn't presume to speak for them but I don't think they are all that fond of AirServ either.

Ah, Mjbow, the penny\'s just dropped:

One of my colleagues just pointed out that you must be either:

the AirServ pilot who was sent home for making donuts on the apron by exceeding the turn limit of the aircraft, or..

the AirServ pilot who grounded the aircraft for popped pins after taxi-ing over the chocks (twice).

(or you could be the one that forgot to set the pressurisation system ? in any case, thanks for the extra work, fixing all your screw ups on the aircraft !)

I think I\'ve made my point and any more \'discussion\' on this topic is just going to further demonstrate the incompatabilty of pilots like you and the reality of the work that needs to be done.

Go sort out New Orleans, if you can, and put African pilots in any machine I have to work on.

Q. How long does it take for a South African mechanic to replace a fuel filter bypass pin?

A. We don't know, the've been working on it since early 2003!


PS I see you have deleted all identifying information from your Profile. Could this mean you don't want people personally identifying you with your comments? I wonder why?

Go around sounds a bit bitter and twisted... if ASI has done something to pee you off why not just ignore them.... companies who pee off pilots are many and we all play the game of musical chairs.
As for critcising the ASI pilots.... I do currently fly for them and have done for almost a year... I've come across very good, good , averagely good and suspect pilots during that time... ie.. about the same as I found flying pax routes during 10 yrs in the european airline environment...
as for the contract pilots... usually Naturelink.... I've met some really great guys... good pilots... ...unfortunately Naturelink maintenance policies are not all they might be and the pilots often seem scared of complaining about it.... the current situation in SA means they have limited alternatives....
Go Arounds arrogant assumption that only pilots who fail elsewhere would come to Africa is mindless..I had 10 yrs of flying the airline environment in Europe and hated it so much I was ready to quit flying.... missed slot times... going off to work when everyone else is starting to wind down.. a wrecked marriage...most will tell the same story but are stuck with it.... I personally rediscovered a love of flying after being offered a job flying world-wide survey.... with things going quiet after 9/11 I applied to Airserv and have had some great flying in Africa and met some good people... pilots out here are generally more interesting individuals than those type-cast for the airlines back home....... yes ASI do have problems and Poorwanderingwun seems to have covered them pretty well... but almost all companies have their problems....
Anyone interested in ASI can PM me...
ASI does need pilots... if you're in the 'pool' call them every day...
Good luck....
MungoP

airserv
 

BadAndy, next time you check in just ask them when you should check in again. It's a toss up anywhere between being diligently persistent and being a pest. They will try to match your talents with what openings come along. And when they do call you don't be surprised if they ask if you can head off to Africa immediately.

Pigeon,

Thanks for the response. I agree with you it's a fine line between persistance and being annoying. I'm trying to figure out where that line is... (By the way, do I know you? Are you at IAH now?).

Some questions for the guys over there:

Is being ignored (both voice mails and emails) pretty standard from the main office? Or is it just one person on the Recruiting front? How is the communication with management once you're in the field? Just some more questions I have that are raising some red flags...

As for the contractors -vs- AirServ pilot arguements, how does that effect things in the field? Is there this bitterness in the field, too? Or is it just banter on an internet board? These are all things I'm thinking about before pursuing this any harder.

Bitterness in the field......haha - an understatement if I ever heard one!!

Serv Air International
 

Anyone ever work for Serv Air International? They do humanitarian work and such.

"Serv Air"

Are you not looking for --- Air Serv Intern-----?

I think the question has been asked and answered, do a search of the forums.

I did for two years search on the web and here on pprune.

Servair? Yeah. It's the catering division of Air France. Good stuff. :E :E :E

TTF thats air serv??

Dean, so did I and its gone. anyway heres the website. http://www.airserv.org/

Airserv International info requested
 

Hi everyone!

I am looking for Airserv International info. Pay, bases, working conditions, etc. I have wanted to fly for them for quite some time and I am at a place in my life where I can. Any info is greatly appreciated. Thank you.

They are located in Virginia, U.S. Give them a call, they will give you all the info you need.

Couple of old threads in Afri Avi - search and ye shall find. I hear they're looking for folk to work Iraq at the mo. Let us know if Angelina gets lost in the desert again and you're lucky enuff to rescue her!

Airserv
 

www.airserv.org Undestand they upgraded salary, over long period not to bad, specially if u from states,not taxed if you out country more than 6 months at time. Heard they need urgent caravan pilots in DRC.Make sure cultural shock not to big for you, seems like not all from abroad can handle Africa-will not get away with bull**** and bigtalk here.:Good luck

All the best - you will need FAA licence though!

Also try Flying Mission Botswana - they are buying brand new Kodiak turbine a/c for ops in Zambia

AIR SERV INTERNATIONAL
 

Hi,

I would like to have some infomations about Air Serv International, about work conditions, wages, etc...( interessted in flying a Grand Caravan).

Thanks.

RD

There's six other threads on Air Serv - use the "Search this forum" option at the top right of the Africa forum page; type in Air+Serv and you will be amazed at the gen you will unlock.

Seek & yee shall find young man.

4HP.

I have tryed, but only got my own post :{

RD

:ok:

A few links for airserv Richard:)
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...hlight=airserv
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...light=air+serv
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...light=air+serv
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...light=air+serv

:ok: Thanks KA200. 4HP

Errrr.... :/
Ever thought of asking Airserv ? You never know... it might work. PPrune is an excellent way of gathering the extra info but for the basics why not go to the horses mouth ...

try e-mailing

[email protected]
good luck

Air Serv International - Is this a Humanitarian Organization?
 

THIS WAS POSTED ON JET BLAST MAYBE HERE IT WILL HAVE A BETTER AUDIENCE

Mean while back at the Head Office there are a few people who are enriching themselves on the missery of the very people that they claim to be helping.

There are a number of cases where their corporate machine steps in to cover up ,get people out of the country ,with zero thought being given to the people that have suffered at the hands of their people.

I would like to open this forum to discuss this company and the way that they abuse people .:{

The fact that they condone and cover up paedophilia ,assault and use thier so called humanitarian aircraft to transport ordinance needs to be discussed.

What about any other stories out there !

Lets talk about it .

Maybe USAID should look a bit more closely at who they give the funding to ,as these people are not AID workers , they are opertunistic animals.

Please understand this is not directed at all the airserv staff ,because not all of them are in the club , but those who are in the club know what I am talking about .

Lets get these stories out in the open .

The world should know what sort of people get the money that is donated with all the good intentions.
Last edited by Whataboutthepeople : 27th April 2006 at 00:29.

Good idea to get things in the open by an Aviation Company that calls itself Humanitarian:

1. They charge a whole lot more money for aircraft than any other private for profit operator. But they get away as they are Humanitarian and as long as they hug trees they can afford to get away with it, because it sounds good to the people that give them money that they are so safe that they pranged Van in Moz, wiped out a helicopter in Asia etc .... This make there per mile flown look a lot worse than the poor guy that is trying to make a living out of flying.

2. They are here to save the world! To keep on saving the world the people that have to bust asses to make a living are having there money taken out of there mouth.

3. They have passed NO ACCREDITED Audit System under the flimsy Part 91 Operation paper system they have and also make a profit out of the "Profit Part" of there operation in Uganda called Air Serv Limited. All the same the game goes around.

The only way Operators can get this chameleon that hugs tree's go away or join the real world is to do open battle with them regarding contracting and getting THE COUNTRIES that grant them these flimsy permissions to withdraw it immediately. If I need an AOC & and a registered AMO to operate under then why are they exempt?

The gloves are off; whoever pays for these guys; US Government CIA allegations or ties I don't know. But flying is flying and B/s.....ht is BS, we really don't need people that preach Humanitarian and then screw the ver people they are supposed to help (literally maybe?)

Airserv
 

Howdy

i did a forum search on Airserv but no returns

Anyone here flying for them?

I would like to hear about your experiences and what the everyday operation/ typical day is like


I have a Canadian bush and waterbomber background and am interested in trying out this challenging avenue.


Take care

Amazed that you can't find anything in the search for Airserv... There's been so much written... sensible stuff all the way through to ludicrous..that it would almost constitute a novel.
ASI 'Airserv International' an American NGO was set up initially over 20 yrs ago by a group formally associated with MAF but who wanted to widen the range of aid flying from MAFs religious centred operation with its limiting policies regarding the type of aid flown. Since that time it has flourished and then to some extent abated largely in response to policies implemented by the CEO and other primary executives. In order to survive as a non profit organisation it has in fact become dependant on contracts that are also being serviced by regular contract flying companies. The erstwhile CEO who only recently stood down from that position formed a strong association to Naturelink, an SA company, in order to achieve flexibility of aircraft and crew without major capital investment... this has led to Naturelink profiting immeasuably at the expense of Airserv... as yet it's not clear what direction the new CEO will take.
Flying for Airserv can be both rewarding and frustrating... much as it is with many other companies flying in developing countries. Mostly you will get enough interesting flying to find it rewarding... there will also be the mundane stuff alongside it. Unfortunately you will be flying for about half the salary you would be getting from a regular contract flying company such as NAC/Qwiller/Exec Turbine, etc... You will suffer the added discomfort of possibly having a 'Naturelink' FO sitting next to you with a few hundred hours in his pocket and earning more than you...and he will be working only 6 weeks on before getting one month off. Airserv's attitude to this dillema has always been that they are a non-propfit NGO serving the developing worlds community and a certain voluntary work attitude has to be adopted. While this was no doubt the case in the early days the fact is that the contracts being bid for by ASI are exactly the same contracts being bid for by the regular companies who pay much larger salaries and offer better T&C's.
You may get some postings following this insinuating that ASI is a CIA/NSA?FBI/ Klingon... ad nauseum cover. It isn't... and it certainly isn't a re-born Air America. Like all companies it has employees with a wide range of personalities and abilities and those of us who work there do so because it suits our style. HQ can be very frustrating to deal with when in the field as can HQ's at many other operations. As a twotter pilot you could expect to work out of either Abeche in Chad ( remote and dusty... with good accomodation) or Goma... (dirty, black from the volcanic erruption in '02) very demanding flying in the rainy season due to the high MSA's. Or , knowing HQ... if you're highly experienced on the twotter you coud be offered a job flying the Caravan !
It's a poorly paid job with reasonably interesting flying... you might want to check out some of the SA based companies before commiting yourself... or if you have any chance of obtaining a JAR or Swiss ATPL... apply to Zimex... about the most 'on the ball' company out there operating this sort of work...Good luck.

um Qwiller....read Qwila

I have my pride youknow

:}