Balmoral downsizing ???
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Balmoral downsizing ???
I heard a rumour over the weekend that several of the office staff at balmoral have been told to look for new jobs at the end of the month. 
Does this mean I should stop hassling them for a job and concentrate more on Rossair, Solenta, King Air Services or NAC or just carry on instructing until I get the call from Airways
Does this mean I should stop hassling them for a job and concentrate more on Rossair, Solenta, King Air Services or NAC or just carry on instructing until I get the call from Airways
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No one can really compete against Aviation Assistance as they are subsidised by their goverment. Not a bad company at all.
Im sure some of the Moral pilots will be switching over to AA.
Antigravity rules
Im sure some of the Moral pilots will be switching over to AA.
Antigravity rules
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Ah, gravitysux, sounds nice but unfortunately untrue. Zimex used to get subsidies from the Swiss government, but the Danish government is not as helpful, and it would be illegal anyway under EU legislation.
As for competing against AA, Rossair has been doing a fine job of that for some years, and let us hope that they continue to. It would be boring to be the only fish in the pond.
Before everybody starts bombarding me with questions, I know nothing about these particular contracts other than that there are some very busy people back in Denmark at the moment. I am fortunately not one of them.
As for competing against AA, Rossair has been doing a fine job of that for some years, and let us hope that they continue to. It would be boring to be the only fish in the pond.
Before everybody starts bombarding me with questions, I know nothing about these particular contracts other than that there are some very busy people back in Denmark at the moment. I am fortunately not one of them.
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YOU SAID
As for competing against AA, Rossair has been doing a fine job of that for some years, and let us hope that they continue to.
Competitions great but how about paying the crews what's owed..............
Oh thats right there an SA company.........
Long live the revolving (revolting) door of lowest price wins contract aviation.
Balmoral, Benavia whoes next.....
Competitions great but how about paying the crews what's owed..............
Oh thats right there an SA company.........
Long live the revolving (revolting) door of lowest price wins contract aviation.
Balmoral, Benavia whoes next.....
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Hiya Max Torque,
Well if it isn't "-The Dane with the suspect Oz accent"...........
I hear your birds tail feathers were clipped a while ago..... was it replaced or is there just something different painted on the back now?
As for "sounds nice but unfortunately untrue".......... I could say the same here.......
Well if it isn't "-The Dane with the suspect Oz accent"...........
I hear your birds tail feathers were clipped a while ago..... was it replaced or is there just something different painted on the back now?
As for "sounds nice but unfortunately untrue".......... I could say the same here.......
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Well guys, I don't believe that AA are NOT SUBSIDISED. We must fight for our contracts/jobs.
I for one will not sit back and allow unfair subsidised competition take our work away!
Anyone with any info on AA please Email me on [email protected]
I firmly believe in fair competition and let the best man win.... but I will fight against unfair practices!
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I for one will not sit back and allow unfair subsidised competition take our work away!
Anyone with any info on AA please Email me on [email protected]
I firmly believe in fair competition and let the best man win.... but I will fight against unfair practices!
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Unfair practices!!??
What interests me on this score is the following, not only is it apparent that the Danes are getting financial assistance from their government to compete in the open market but as I understand it they are also Beech agents. Does this not smell a little as on the one hand they are selling aircraft to customers and then competing against them on the open market? Methinks that NAC fall in this category as well! Not very fair when you use your distributor status to beat the people you sell aircraft to and take away their income and their ability to make their investment work. Thoughts?
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Please excuse me.
I tried to be serious, but gave up.
LET IT BE KNOWN !
Those of us loosely associated with the Evil Empire of Aviation Assistance' up on the 55th parrallel wish to make it known, that fully supported by illegal EU subsidies and illicit weapons of mass destruction supplied to us by Iraq, as well as some death beam microwave toaster ovens we got at Woolworths:
1)
We intend to bury all you miserable SA pilots and your useless aircraft (well ODG, anyway) in a large pit outside Lanseria and divide the world between us, the North Koreans and Airserv.
2)
We will invade Bermuda, take all the Buddhist monks hostage and demand the reinstatement of Margaret Thatcher as the head of the Taleban.
3)
Failing the above, the reinstatement of Steve Waugh to the one day side will suffice.
You have been warned !
Max Torque
Jedi Knight
Member of the Axis of Almost Evil.
Long Live our Glorious Leader Kim Jong Il !
PS: Tailfeathers much recovered, thankyou. New gold plated horizontal stabilizer is v. nice.
I tried to be serious, but gave up.
LET IT BE KNOWN !
Those of us loosely associated with the Evil Empire of Aviation Assistance' up on the 55th parrallel wish to make it known, that fully supported by illegal EU subsidies and illicit weapons of mass destruction supplied to us by Iraq, as well as some death beam microwave toaster ovens we got at Woolworths:
1)
We intend to bury all you miserable SA pilots and your useless aircraft (well ODG, anyway) in a large pit outside Lanseria and divide the world between us, the North Koreans and Airserv.
2)
We will invade Bermuda, take all the Buddhist monks hostage and demand the reinstatement of Margaret Thatcher as the head of the Taleban.
3)
Failing the above, the reinstatement of Steve Waugh to the one day side will suffice.
You have been warned !
Max Torque
Jedi Knight
Member of the Axis of Almost Evil.
Long Live our Glorious Leader Kim Jong Il !
PS: Tailfeathers much recovered, thankyou. New gold plated horizontal stabilizer is v. nice.
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Sir Cumference,
I do believe you're right........ Wouldn't that also mean that they have access to a cheaper spares line too? Which should of course then be sold at the going rate (including to their own flying ops)? Seemingly we so-far have; bidding in competition to ones own customers, have the possibility to use cheaper spares in contradiction to their agreement with Raytheon (notice the word possibility) & by the looks of it subsidies.
Max Torque,
I'd have to say your latest post strikes me as being truly pathetic . Was it an attempt at "humour"? If it was, given that many of the crews referred to above could well be out of work in a couple of weeks it was at best a complete failure & in particularly bad taste. I know a couple of the Balmoral crews & I've met / flown with you several times. If I had to choose who to be stuck in an aeroplane with it'd be one of the guys from S.A., anyday.
PS, If we can track him down I'm sure we can send some more money to the ex Taliban tank driver & ask him to do a proper job next time
I do believe you're right........ Wouldn't that also mean that they have access to a cheaper spares line too? Which should of course then be sold at the going rate (including to their own flying ops)? Seemingly we so-far have; bidding in competition to ones own customers, have the possibility to use cheaper spares in contradiction to their agreement with Raytheon (notice the word possibility) & by the looks of it subsidies.
Max Torque,
I'd have to say your latest post strikes me as being truly pathetic
. Was it an attempt at "humour"? If it was, given that many of the crews referred to above could well be out of work in a couple of weeks it was at best a complete failure & in particularly bad taste. I know a couple of the Balmoral crews & I've met / flown with you several times. If I had to choose who to be stuck in an aeroplane with it'd be one of the guys from S.A., anyday.PS, If we can track him down I'm sure we can send some more money to the ex Taliban tank driver & ask him to do a proper job next time
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fully supported by illegal EU subsidies
MaxToque,
There'd been several mentions of Danish / government subsidies in this thread but no mention, till your message above, of EU subsidies.
I couldn't help wondering what prompted you to write that instead of 'government subsidies' or 'Danish subsides'???
Are you trying to tell us something??
There'd been several mentions of Danish / government subsidies in this thread but no mention, till your message above, of EU subsidies.
I couldn't help wondering what prompted you to write that instead of 'government subsidies' or 'Danish subsides'???
Are you trying to tell us something??
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EU Subsidies
Anonymous, thank you for the intellegent contribution to this site. I am sure that any EU subsidy would be illegal however maybe there is something that Max Torque knows as he seems very close to the AA camp.
I remember from years ago the Boeing Airbus saga and the unfair shouts from the USA market about the subsidies of the Airbus consortium and the increased sale of their product. The subsidy issue has been around before, however i would not be surprised if this was not a Danish Government "Grant" of sorts. Numbers of around $200 to $300 per hour have been spoken about!!
That certainly will kill off any competition added to that cheaper spares etc!!! Aircraft in Africa will soon all have horns and look like Hagar the Horrible!
I remember from years ago the Boeing Airbus saga and the unfair shouts from the USA market about the subsidies of the Airbus consortium and the increased sale of their product. The subsidy issue has been around before, however i would not be surprised if this was not a Danish Government "Grant" of sorts. Numbers of around $200 to $300 per hour have been spoken about!!
That certainly will kill off any competition added to that cheaper spares etc!!! Aircraft in Africa will soon all have horns and look like Hagar the Horrible!
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Sir Cumference,
That's horribly decent of you..... Was just trying to do the decent thing....
As opposed to being close to the AA camp my understanding is that Max Torque is actually within said camp. What a pity he's gone quiet suddenly. One could almost be forgiven for thinking that he either thinks he's already said too much or that someone has perhaps touched a raw nerve?
I've heard similar figures mentioned too.... what a "coincidence"
Yes, I'm sure any sort of subsidy would be illegal & dressed up as something else. Hopefully the guys at Balmoral have a decent lawyer onto this......
The thought of the aircraft all having horns & looking like Hagar does make one cringe..... Mind, if Yankee Bravo were to get a hat with horns in it & a fur cape he'd probably look the part
Anon
That's horribly decent of you..... Was just trying to do the decent thing....
As opposed to being close to the AA camp my understanding is that Max Torque is actually within said camp. What a pity he's gone quiet suddenly. One could almost be forgiven for thinking that he either thinks he's already said too much or that someone has perhaps touched a raw nerve?
I've heard similar figures mentioned too.... what a "coincidence"
Yes, I'm sure any sort of subsidy would be illegal & dressed up as something else. Hopefully the guys at Balmoral have a decent lawyer onto this......
The thought of the aircraft all having horns & looking like Hagar does make one cringe..... Mind, if Yankee Bravo were to get a hat with horns in it & a fur cape he'd probably look the part
Anon
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Well well, competition or not ? All these companies would be in better shape if they were working together, i.e share the contracts regarding were the maintenance base is. We all know spare parts is our biggest problem, and when we have any, shipping them is mission impossible .....
And the bottom line, we don't see the money, the MDs have nice Jags, even when their company goes down......
And the bottom line, we don't see the money, the MDs have nice Jags, even when their company goes down......
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Not quiet, just decided that my holiday was too short to trade in conspiracy theories and sledging. If you guys want to run down this track, that's fine with me - I just thought I'd do you a favour and save you wasting your time.
For the record, humour is a dangerous tool, but it beats derogatory comments, Anonymous. Which was the other option.
For the last time, I will restate that the whole idea of subsidies provided by either the Danish government or the EU, is hysterically funny - and that is also the position among the other AA people who I have discussed it with. Of course none of us can prove anything, but that's the beauty of a conspiracy theory.
And for the record, I am not currently with AA.
The point that Sir Cumference rises ref. spare parts is an intriguing one, but unfortunately again one that can never be proved one way or the other. I find it extremely unlikely, but that's just my two cents worth.
So all in all, this debate can go nowhere until somebody finds a smoking gun, and in my humble opinion, there isn't one. The rest remains opinions; you are fully aware of mine, so this is my final contribution on this subject.
Best regards to all of you,
-MT.
...now back to the beach......
For the record, humour is a dangerous tool, but it beats derogatory comments, Anonymous. Which was the other option.
For the last time, I will restate that the whole idea of subsidies provided by either the Danish government or the EU, is hysterically funny - and that is also the position among the other AA people who I have discussed it with. Of course none of us can prove anything, but that's the beauty of a conspiracy theory.
And for the record, I am not currently with AA.
The point that Sir Cumference rises ref. spare parts is an intriguing one, but unfortunately again one that can never be proved one way or the other. I find it extremely unlikely, but that's just my two cents worth.
So all in all, this debate can go nowhere until somebody finds a smoking gun, and in my humble opinion, there isn't one. The rest remains opinions; you are fully aware of mine, so this is my final contribution on this subject.
Best regards to all of you,
-MT.
...now back to the beach......
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It seems we are on a raw nerve here. I cannot imagine what Max Torques' problem is? Maybe an African Pilot stole his girlfriend one dark night !
I think we are on to a smoking gun here, in so far as the figues seem to match all round. It would be logical for African contractors to be a little more competitive due to exchange rate annomolies etc. But for Europeans to consistently come in around $300 per hour less something doesn't add up.
I hope we can resolve this problem with some more serious input; especially as guys jobs are at stake here. It is much harder for an African to get a JAR validation than vice versa. Subsidies are really the last straw.
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!I think we are on to a smoking gun here, in so far as the figues seem to match all round. It would be logical for African contractors to be a little more competitive due to exchange rate annomolies etc. But for Europeans to consistently come in around $300 per hour less something doesn't add up.
I hope we can resolve this problem with some more serious input; especially as guys jobs are at stake here. It is much harder for an African to get a JAR validation than vice versa. Subsidies are really the last straw.
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Max Torque,
So how was the holiday? Presumably you didn't get caught up in the fires round Sydney?
Maybe you should confirm the meaning of derogatory & the context that my comments were used within. As I said your post struck me as being truly pathetic, there you go, repeated to be sure. Fortunately when the Taleban fell out of favour in Afghanistan they didn't take over the rest of the world so I'm free to express such opinions.
You may well find the idea of subsidies to be hysterically funny, I'm sure those who'se jobs are threatened wouldn't share your mirth.
I'll quote a chunk of your message: "and that is also the position among the other AA people who I have discussed it with. Of course none of us can prove anything, but that's the beauty of a conspiracy theory.
And for the record, I am not currently with AA." Presumably you can see how it doesn't make sense? You refer to "the other AA people" and then contradict yourself by saying "And for the record, I am not currently with AA."
Which is true???
I think that your theory regarding the spares issue that Sir Cumference raises not being provable is incorrect. I'd be quite sure that it will, somehow, be provable.
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Lol! A possibility.....
I'm sure there are several smoking guns lying around & I'd be sure that we won't need Hans Blix to find them! I think therein lies Max Torques problem, he's terrified someone is gonna find them.
I heard some information a few days ago which leads me, independantly of the 'coincidence' of hearing the same figure from different sources, to be very sure that there is some kind of payment to AA. I do also hope that the matter can be resolved & I wish the guys over there the best of luck in doing so.
The people I've discussed this with (including some who will be adversely affected by the whole business) have all said, as have a few people 'here', that if they'd won the contract on a level playing field they'd have had no objections / concerns but there is a concern that this could be the start of a dangerously slippery slope as far a fairness & even competition is concerned.
Regards
Anon
So how was the holiday? Presumably you didn't get caught up in the fires round Sydney?
Maybe you should confirm the meaning of derogatory & the context that my comments were used within. As I said your post struck me as being truly pathetic, there you go, repeated to be sure. Fortunately when the Taleban fell out of favour in Afghanistan they didn't take over the rest of the world so I'm free to express such opinions.
You may well find the idea of subsidies to be hysterically funny, I'm sure those who'se jobs are threatened wouldn't share your mirth.
I'll quote a chunk of your message: "and that is also the position among the other AA people who I have discussed it with. Of course none of us can prove anything, but that's the beauty of a conspiracy theory.
And for the record, I am not currently with AA." Presumably you can see how it doesn't make sense? You refer to "the other AA people" and then contradict yourself by saying "And for the record, I am not currently with AA."
Which is true???
I think that your theory regarding the spares issue that Sir Cumference raises not being provable is incorrect. I'd be quite sure that it will, somehow, be provable.
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Lol!
A possibility.....I'm sure there are several smoking guns lying around & I'd be sure that we won't need Hans Blix to find them!
I think therein lies Max Torques problem, he's terrified someone is gonna find them.I heard some information a few days ago which leads me, independantly of the 'coincidence' of hearing the same figure from different sources, to be very sure that there is some kind of payment to AA. I do also hope that the matter can be resolved & I wish the guys over there the best of luck in doing so.
The people I've discussed this with (including some who will be adversely affected by the whole business) have all said, as have a few people 'here', that if they'd won the contract on a level playing field they'd have had no objections / concerns but there is a concern that this could be the start of a dangerously slippery slope as far a fairness & even competition is concerned.
Regards
Anon
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As for the smoking gun, does it count if they are operating Raytheon owned aircraft on an EU contract ? I guess it must...
Also what about an employee of a contract company, who leaves , joins the organisation awarding the contracts , then six months later leaves them only to return to the contract company to head up their Aviation section,?? conspiricy ? co incidence or insider trading ?
I saw earlier from gravitysux "Im sure some of the Moral pilots will be switching over to AA". won't rule it out completely I am sure they all got bills to pay and need to eat , but surely a JAR licence is required ??? JAR validations being almost impossible to get for those outside the eurozone ? or does AA have another scam going there as well ?
I don't know if many moral pilots would like to go to AA as captains only get $3500 and FO's get $2500 a month, and are left to fend for themselves. Work cycles are 3 to 6 months on, and 3 to 6 off without pay. maybe MB feels this is a fair way to treat his employees. But with the comments in this thread, IMHO looks like just another underhanded rip off merchant in the aviation industry.
"I hope we can resolve this problem with some more serious input; especially as guys jobs are at stake here. It is much harder for an African to get a JAR validation than vice versa. Subsidies are really the last straw."
Perhaps we should adopt the same attitude of job protection as the eurozone, especially when last week they approached NAC for aircraft.
Lets give them the same treatment as you would receive when trying to get an SA work permit. Use our affirmative action policy to work for us, if you need a foreigner to work for you, prove that there isn't a suitable South African to do the job before the SACAA issue validations sonder regverdige rede
If EU subsidies are available to European companies, is it really ethical that by doing so they promoting unfair business practices in a continent that is rife with corruption, that they are so desperately trying to eradicate with various so called schemes and incentives, under the guise of humanitarian aid ?? maybe they should assist the companies on the African continent that have a proven track record and adopt a policy of help those who are willing to help themselves, in effect encouraging foreign investment to those countries who are in need of it rather than a free handout ?
enuf ranting..... but it does strike me as strange that the Danes know anything about flying higher than 6 ft , considering the highest points in Denmark are the little mermaid, Lego land Eiffel Tower and a couple of thousand pig sties...
Also what about an employee of a contract company, who leaves , joins the organisation awarding the contracts , then six months later leaves them only to return to the contract company to head up their Aviation section,?? conspiricy ? co incidence or insider trading ?
I saw earlier from gravitysux "Im sure some of the Moral pilots will be switching over to AA". won't rule it out completely I am sure they all got bills to pay and need to eat , but surely a JAR licence is required ??? JAR validations being almost impossible to get for those outside the eurozone ? or does AA have another scam going there as well ?
I don't know if many moral pilots would like to go to AA as captains only get $3500 and FO's get $2500 a month, and are left to fend for themselves. Work cycles are 3 to 6 months on, and 3 to 6 off without pay. maybe MB feels this is a fair way to treat his employees. But with the comments in this thread, IMHO looks like just another underhanded rip off merchant in the aviation industry.
"I hope we can resolve this problem with some more serious input; especially as guys jobs are at stake here. It is much harder for an African to get a JAR validation than vice versa. Subsidies are really the last straw."
Perhaps we should adopt the same attitude of job protection as the eurozone, especially when last week they approached NAC for aircraft.
Lets give them the same treatment as you would receive when trying to get an SA work permit. Use our affirmative action policy to work for us, if you need a foreigner to work for you, prove that there isn't a suitable South African to do the job before the SACAA issue validations sonder regverdige rede
If EU subsidies are available to European companies, is it really ethical that by doing so they promoting unfair business practices in a continent that is rife with corruption, that they are so desperately trying to eradicate with various so called schemes and incentives, under the guise of humanitarian aid ?? maybe they should assist the companies on the African continent that have a proven track record and adopt a policy of help those who are willing to help themselves, in effect encouraging foreign investment to those countries who are in need of it rather than a free handout ?
enuf ranting..... but it does strike me as strange that the Danes know anything about flying higher than 6 ft , considering the highest points in Denmark are the little mermaid, Lego land Eiffel Tower and a couple of thousand pig sties...
Last edited by Makulu Baas; 22nd Jan 2003 at 17:06.
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U gota point.
Makulu
You have a definate point there and I was wondering why the SA goverment wouldnt assist in subsidizing some of the SA companies doing good contract work for all the UN and affiliates for the PR benefit? Our contract pilots should be proud for representing South Africa as they are (well most anyway) good ambasadors for South Africans and Pilots alike. Id like to think so anyway...
My coments on Moral pilots switching back over to AA was grounded on AA pilots going to the Morals cause the bucks was better, but now..? No job. Lower bucks is better than no Bucks.
Im still trying to find the proof (to quote a Bush we know) That AA do indeed get subsidized, I was always under the impression that: AA=NGO and stood to benifit from that status. Alas Im working on hearsay and word of mouth. Sorry.
So until I can prove subsidies, I wont be mentioning it again.
Hey SA companies get TAX relief from work outside SA declared or NON, cant that be considerd a subsidy?
k!
Antygravity rules!! O.
You have a definate point there and I was wondering why the SA goverment wouldnt assist in subsidizing some of the SA companies doing good contract work for all the UN and affiliates for the PR benefit? Our contract pilots should be proud for representing South Africa as they are (well most anyway) good ambasadors for South Africans and Pilots alike. Id like to think so anyway...
My coments on Moral pilots switching back over to AA was grounded on AA pilots going to the Morals cause the bucks was better, but now..? No job. Lower bucks is better than no Bucks.
Im still trying to find the proof (to quote a Bush we know) That AA do indeed get subsidized, I was always under the impression that: AA=NGO and stood to benifit from that status. Alas Im working on hearsay and word of mouth. Sorry.
So until I can prove subsidies, I wont be mentioning it again.
Hey SA companies get TAX relief from work outside SA declared or NON, cant that be considerd a subsidy?
k!
Antygravity rules!! O.
Last edited by gravitysux; 22nd Jan 2003 at 19:57.
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time will tell
time will tell as to what the out come is for all those concerned,,,lets hope its a victory for the third world and put one up on the those getting the free handouts