South Sudan any1? What to buy before?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: US
Age: 39
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
U guys know how to protect the supervan 900 from stones piercing the wings during short-field take-offs? Perhaps there are some dedicated fenders for that? I'm not sure how it's called in English and we're thinking of installing one. Would appreciate info.
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Canada
Age: 37
Posts: 630
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Two methods that have worked for me.
1) If static full power take offs are required, sweep the area of all the loose stones. Start up and then go full bananas from there.
2) Keep the aircraft moving.
My own personal observations, I could be totally wrong here and open for correction, but.... Standing on the anchors, full power then going... the initial part of the run is always slow to accelerate. If you can taxi at a reasonable speed and then gun it (carefully!!!) you wont pick up as many stones, while getting the same performance as a static start.
My observations was that I was always coming back with a crap load LESS stone chips in the prop than other pilots, and I have never had a pierced aircraft skin.
1) If static full power take offs are required, sweep the area of all the loose stones. Start up and then go full bananas from there.
2) Keep the aircraft moving.
My own personal observations, I could be totally wrong here and open for correction, but.... Standing on the anchors, full power then going... the initial part of the run is always slow to accelerate. If you can taxi at a reasonable speed and then gun it (carefully!!!) you wont pick up as many stones, while getting the same performance as a static start.
My observations was that I was always coming back with a crap load LESS stone chips in the prop than other pilots, and I have never had a pierced aircraft skin.
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Kenya
Posts: 239
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There's an approved main gear mud flap for the 208 which prevents stones flicking up from the tyres into the elevators. But in over 15 years of operation we've never had a stone flick into the wings!!
I agree with Lilfyboy's advice - many operators carry a broom in the pod to sweep under the prop blades to prevent prop damage on start up, and to avoid stone damage on the prop during taxi, and take-off use a short rolling take-off while you apply full-power. Keeping the aircraft moving gently forward before fire-walling it is a good way to keep the prop doing its job. Beta, flat pitch, and surging on loose surfaces is not going to help.
But I don't know of any technique to avoid stones into the wings - never seen it happen..... The elevator sometimes takes a few chips but they're generally negligible if you have a policy of looking after the plane in the hope that it will look after you when you most need it!!
I agree with Lilfyboy's advice - many operators carry a broom in the pod to sweep under the prop blades to prevent prop damage on start up, and to avoid stone damage on the prop during taxi, and take-off use a short rolling take-off while you apply full-power. Keeping the aircraft moving gently forward before fire-walling it is a good way to keep the prop doing its job. Beta, flat pitch, and surging on loose surfaces is not going to help.
But I don't know of any technique to avoid stones into the wings - never seen it happen..... The elevator sometimes takes a few chips but they're generally negligible if you have a policy of looking after the plane in the hope that it will look after you when you most need it!!
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Canada
Age: 37
Posts: 630
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Fox, it might be a thing with the higher horsepower engines.
I have never seen pierced skin on a normal engined van, but we are operating the EXs and we had a hole through the bottom of the horizontal stab and a massive chunk out of the prop.
We also have the mudflaps on the main gear.
I have never seen pierced skin on a normal engined van, but we are operating the EXs and we had a hole through the bottom of the horizontal stab and a massive chunk out of the prop.
We also have the mudflaps on the main gear.
The Cessna rubber "wheel wiper" mudflaps work well clearing mud and grit on all three wheels. Suggest you fit them. Concur about letting the a/c accelerate as you progressively add power to avoid prop damage. Don't use reverse if you can avoid it, beta is enough anyway. Use the particle seperator for all ground operations.
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Kenya
Posts: 239
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lilflyboy - you could well be right. My only direct experience is with the standard 675 HP Van - but a local operator does have the EX and I haven't seen or heard of any issues from them with the higher power.
Its the props that seem to take the real hammering depending on how ham-fisted people are with looking after their kit. Also there's been a fair bit of damage caused by not getting the nose up early in the take-off roll and keeping it up as long as possible in the landing roll, then letting it down softly with minimum skidding/beta and braking to keep the nose from kicking stuff up. I still don't quite get how the stones kick up from the mains into the wing but I guess it might be possible...
Its a seriously nice aircraft, and worth looking after!! Even in Sudan...
Its the props that seem to take the real hammering depending on how ham-fisted people are with looking after their kit. Also there's been a fair bit of damage caused by not getting the nose up early in the take-off roll and keeping it up as long as possible in the landing roll, then letting it down softly with minimum skidding/beta and braking to keep the nose from kicking stuff up. I still don't quite get how the stones kick up from the mains into the wing but I guess it might be possible...
Its a seriously nice aircraft, and worth looking after!! Even in Sudan...
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: US
Age: 39
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No inlet particle separator on Supervan 900 TPE331-12JR Conversion. According to Texas Turbine leaflet : "No inlet particle separator
– Less hardware and much less performance penalty in icing conditions"
(source : http://www.primusepic.com/resources/...conversion.pdf )
Wageslave, you have p/n perhaps? We have only a couple days to fit it.
– Less hardware and much less performance penalty in icing conditions"
(source : http://www.primusepic.com/resources/...conversion.pdf ) Wageslave, you have p/n perhaps? We have only a couple days to fit it.
No inlet particle separator
– Less hardware and much less performance penalty in icing conditions
– Less hardware and much less performance penalty in icing conditions
p/n??? for what, the wheel scrapers? Aren't they on the Cessna accessory list? Elsewhere? They're just a bracket and a flap of laminated rubber to scrape crap off the tyres.
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Canada
Age: 37
Posts: 630
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Does your van have the 4 bladed prop? That will do a huge amount in reducing the amount of crap picked up by it.
I wouldn't stress yourself too much on the rubber mudflaps. Usually it is just a bit of mud and little small stones that are thrown up by the main gear. Not enough to cause damage. The biggest damage comes from the larger rocks that your prop will pick up.
Just be conscious of where you are taxiing, and how much power you are using. Although I'm not sure how much control you have over that with the Garret engine.
One of the biggest annoyances I had with my first officers when taxiing the van was their ability to keep it moving.
Once moving, it takes very little power to keep it moving. Take the turns as widely as possible, lead it with a bit of power and only use the brake to get the nose wheel around sharper. Roughly 30 degrees before where you want to be pointing, start straightening the nose wheel out. It will keep the van moving and won't bog down. If you are heavy and not have the nose wheel centered, it will take a lot of power to get it straight again... and thats where most of the stone chips come from.
With that 900hp mod, you would be very wise to avoid the dust as much as you can. Always do your turns on the dusty runways into wind so the dust is blown away from you and not sucked into the engine when you turn into your own dust cloud.
You won't have any protection from birds being ingested, which there is a lot of in Africa.
And I don't think ice is going to be much of a problem in VFR ops in South Sudan.
Probably would have been better off getting a Blackhawk converted van, or an EX. With the payload extender as well. Bumps it up to just over 9000lbs.
I wouldn't stress yourself too much on the rubber mudflaps. Usually it is just a bit of mud and little small stones that are thrown up by the main gear. Not enough to cause damage. The biggest damage comes from the larger rocks that your prop will pick up.
Just be conscious of where you are taxiing, and how much power you are using. Although I'm not sure how much control you have over that with the Garret engine.
One of the biggest annoyances I had with my first officers when taxiing the van was their ability to keep it moving.
Once moving, it takes very little power to keep it moving. Take the turns as widely as possible, lead it with a bit of power and only use the brake to get the nose wheel around sharper. Roughly 30 degrees before where you want to be pointing, start straightening the nose wheel out. It will keep the van moving and won't bog down. If you are heavy and not have the nose wheel centered, it will take a lot of power to get it straight again... and thats where most of the stone chips come from.
With that 900hp mod, you would be very wise to avoid the dust as much as you can. Always do your turns on the dusty runways into wind so the dust is blown away from you and not sucked into the engine when you turn into your own dust cloud.
You won't have any protection from birds being ingested, which there is a lot of in Africa.
And I don't think ice is going to be much of a problem in VFR ops in South Sudan.
Probably would have been better off getting a Blackhawk converted van, or an EX. With the payload extender as well. Bumps it up to just over 9000lbs.
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: above planet earth
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Some very good points in the previous posts. Without the inertial separator, by far, your biggest risk will be taking bird into the engine. I had 3 bird strikes in S. Sudan in 6 month. One missed the engine intake by a couple of inches.
I suggest you have a pulsating taxi lights installed and keep them on all the time. If you fly with 2 crew, make it mandatory, that one set of eyes is always looking out the windshield and has the authority to grab the controls. In poor visibility there is no time for proper transition of control. Avoid flying over bush fires. Big birds love the updrafts. Avoid garbage dumps for the same reason. That is dificult to do, as there is garbadge everywhere in towns and villages. There are flocks of birds on most approach and departure paths. Juba is quite bad for that and bird strikes are daily occurrences. A dead bird on the runway will bring more birds. I have seen some spectacular damage to the Caravan props over there. WIth the extra power and instantenious response of the 331 you will have to be soo much more careful. You will be able to totally destroy the prop in one too enthusiastic power or reverse application. Don't believe the Garret sales propaganda about the compressor wheel being design to reject FOD. You put a rock through that puppy and she will be toast.
I suggest you have a pulsating taxi lights installed and keep them on all the time. If you fly with 2 crew, make it mandatory, that one set of eyes is always looking out the windshield and has the authority to grab the controls. In poor visibility there is no time for proper transition of control. Avoid flying over bush fires. Big birds love the updrafts. Avoid garbage dumps for the same reason. That is dificult to do, as there is garbadge everywhere in towns and villages. There are flocks of birds on most approach and departure paths. Juba is quite bad for that and bird strikes are daily occurrences. A dead bird on the runway will bring more birds. I have seen some spectacular damage to the Caravan props over there. WIth the extra power and instantenious response of the 331 you will have to be soo much more careful. You will be able to totally destroy the prop in one too enthusiastic power or reverse application. Don't believe the Garret sales propaganda about the compressor wheel being design to reject FOD. You put a rock through that puppy and she will be toast.
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: above planet earth
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Suggest to your boss to give you a substantial bonus for not trashing the prop. Just for that extra motivation. Our company does that, and our props are 6 ft of the ground.
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: above planet earth
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The TPE331 does not have a provision for the compressor recovery wash. You will have a dust buildup on the leading edges of the compressor blades in the Haboob/dry season with the corresponding decrease of performance. Some ppl use a fire hose and spray water into the intake while you motor the engine. Pretty sure this is not an approved procedure. Try to learn more about this.
South Sudan AvnOps
Artlite, G'Day; a question: have you actually been awarded a UN contract to provide services to a UN Agency (ie WFP, WHO, UNHCR, UNDP or UNMISS etc)?
If not I doubt very much that you'd be picking up ad hoc UN tasks as they don't operate that way, due to the financial regulations governing UN activities.
If, however, you have been so-awarded, then the responsible UN Agency will be quite forthcoming in "advising" you of their operating requirements, and the UN Aviation Section will be very specific about the airframe capability required, which should have been included as part of the Contract Statement of Requirements.
Main thing, as mentioned by many above, make sure you have all your ducks in a row, and remember, there are no dumb questions ... only dumb people, who haven't asked all the questions, yet.
Good Luck [and by the way, Primus is OK, COLD!!]
Edit: if the airframe is painted/marked "UN" you'll be precluded from carting around anything other than UN-approved cargo, ambulant or otherwise, and if that is the case and you get sprung doing otherwise, highly likely, as some miserable "B" will dob you in, you'll lose the Contract, and be barred from bidding for another, for usually six months.
If not I doubt very much that you'd be picking up ad hoc UN tasks as they don't operate that way, due to the financial regulations governing UN activities.
If, however, you have been so-awarded, then the responsible UN Agency will be quite forthcoming in "advising" you of their operating requirements, and the UN Aviation Section will be very specific about the airframe capability required, which should have been included as part of the Contract Statement of Requirements.
Main thing, as mentioned by many above, make sure you have all your ducks in a row, and remember, there are no dumb questions ... only dumb people, who haven't asked all the questions, yet.
Good Luck [and by the way, Primus is OK, COLD!!]
Edit: if the airframe is painted/marked "UN" you'll be precluded from carting around anything other than UN-approved cargo, ambulant or otherwise, and if that is the case and you get sprung doing otherwise, highly likely, as some miserable "B" will dob you in, you'll lose the Contract, and be barred from bidding for another, for usually six months.
Last edited by OBie101; 23rd Mar 2014 at 10:29. Reason: Old age/forgetfulness!
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Poland
Age: 34
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have an offer to fly Van in south sudan for UN with food ( i hope so! )
could anyone tell me about the situation in South Sudan? i will stay in Juba.
I heard about hijacked Fokker and im really scared,
im scared of malaria too
could anyone tell me about the situation in South Sudan? i will stay in Juba.
I heard about hijacked Fokker and im really scared,
im scared of malaria too
Kubaat3lover: an "Offer" from whom? See my earlier post about being contracted by the UN (23rd Mar).
Ask whomever made the offer what the terms and conditions are that you will be required to conform to, and check the UN sites for the Missions in the region (UNMISS, UNMIS, UNAMID, WFP, UNDP, UNHCR etc).
Ask whomever made the offer what the terms and conditions are that you will be required to conform to, and check the UN sites for the Missions in the region (UNMISS, UNMIS, UNAMID, WFP, UNDP, UNHCR etc).
