British Airways Incident at Johannesburg
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 118
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why the anger at BA pilots supporting one of their colleagues? Isn't that what colleagues are supposed to do?
I feel huge sympathy for the guys, and only wish them the best - and (for the avoidance of doubt) also feel sympathy for those who were injured.
I feel huge sympathy for the guys, and only wish them the best - and (for the avoidance of doubt) also feel sympathy for those who were injured.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: SE England
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ladies and Gents. Wisden Wonder is only trying to be inflammatory and spark a reaction in between trying to break the password for the porn filter that his parents had to activate. Best not to respond or pass judgment on him as it will only have him reaching for the Kleenex Ultra Balm again.
As wiser heads have already said, there for the grace of God etc....... There are those of us who have taxied the wrong way and those that will. Lets wait for the AAIB report before castigating any individual. As for a negative bias towards non European operators, like most pilots I believe there are only a small minority who actively spout this nonsense as it is the culture within an Airline that influences Flight Safety far more than the nationality of its pilots.
As wiser heads have already said, there for the grace of God etc....... There are those of us who have taxied the wrong way and those that will. Lets wait for the AAIB report before castigating any individual. As for a negative bias towards non European operators, like most pilots I believe there are only a small minority who actively spout this nonsense as it is the culture within an Airline that influences Flight Safety far more than the nationality of its pilots.
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: London
Age: 44
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If anything, I hope this thread has at least created some awareness of the hazards involved taxiing around this airport to help prevent another incident (with possible worse consequences). There is a hell of a lot of drivel and nonsense written in these ten pages but I'm not sure how we get from a 747 striking a building to accusing each other of being racist.
Fact is, a mistake has been made here. It is somebodies fault, we cant shy away from it and no point being sensitive about it. We learn from mistakes, that's how we develop and improve.
Personally I feel for the crew, same as I felt for the Asiana crew.
Fact is, a mistake has been made here. It is somebodies fault, we cant shy away from it and no point being sensitive about it. We learn from mistakes, that's how we develop and improve.
Personally I feel for the crew, same as I felt for the Asiana crew.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: In da north country
Age: 62
Posts: 452
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bealzebub;
"There was no intent to cause this event."
There was no intent on Asiana's part either.
There were people injured, just not on the plane. Do not the folks in the building count???
"There was no intent to cause this event."
There was no intent on Asiana's part either.
There were people injured, just not on the plane. Do not the folks in the building count???
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: here and there
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hyatt1alpha
Ouch, someone still a little raw at not getting through the BA selection..? Some posters should be embarrassed by some of the crap they post on here. 
And no, I don't fly for BA.
The outcome of which is that 'Nigels' simply 'aint as good as they like to think they are, because, as you see from the long-standing cheating culture, they simply don't have to be!
So, Nigel, Tarquinn, Quentin, Humphrey, Crispin, Percival.....
So, Nigel, Tarquinn, Quentin, Humphrey, Crispin, Percival.....
And no, I don't fly for BA.
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: schermoney and left front seat
Age: 57
Posts: 2,438
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A question to the 'nigels'... what maps do you use? We use Jeppesen and when it comes to the accuracy, general quality and readability of the 10-9s, then I dislike Jepp charts I have to say.
My little airplane sports a map display and sometimes it shows you off the taxiway your supposed to be on simply because the maps are wrong. Same issue - seldom but still - with the Honeywell RAAS - I regret having it installed. If you can´t trust the stuff...
My little airplane sports a map display and sometimes it shows you off the taxiway your supposed to be on simply because the maps are wrong. Same issue - seldom but still - with the Honeywell RAAS - I regret having it installed. If you can´t trust the stuff...
Ouch, someone still a little raw at not getting through the BA selection..?
Given the information contained in the post you are referring to, and the apparent anger, I have my suspicions it may have come from someone who actually did pass BA selection, but not as flight crew....he/she is probably best ignored.
That said I do think the events this year should be a wake up call to some at BA (not just management) who seem to think that safety is a given, that the ability to operate the aircraft now comes secondary to being customer focused and that the answer to each and every problem is to produce an app for the iPad.
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: England
Posts: 1,955
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This is an unfortunate taxiing accident. Lessons will be learned. It has absolutely nothing to do with mid-air collisions over Zagreb 38 years ago, nor landing accidents in San Francisco this year. Nobody was killed. Nobody was injured. An aircraft suffered serious damage and so did a building. Insurance will take care of both of those losses. There was no intent to cause this event.
The ill informed and the breathlessly excited will no doubt think otherwise, but there will be few professional pilots here who haven't been in similar circumstances that simply had a luckier outcome.
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: In the sky/under a jetway
Age: 55
Posts: 76
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's like a slanging match in a primary school here ... & totally unprofessional!!!
I will refrain from posting a question regarding all this, in case it flares up again
Merry Christmas, (try to see the glass half full some of you please!)
I will refrain from posting a question regarding all this, in case it flares up again
Merry Christmas, (try to see the glass half full some of you please!)
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 1,642
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So, Nigel, Tarquinn, Quentin, Humphrey, Crispin, Percival or whichever you are
That said I do think the events this year should be a wake up call to some at BA (not just management) who seem to think that safety is a given, that the ability to operate the aircraft now comes secondary to being customer focused and that the answer to each and every problem is to produce an app for the iPad.
Merry Xmas
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: on the golf course (Covid permitting)
Posts: 2,131
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wiggy
Maybe it will trigger management to spend some money to provide a GPS position feed from the a/c to the iPad's on the flight deck to link into the aerodrome charts for those fleets (inc B744) that don't have a buillt in EFB?
Nah, thought not!
one of the 78 2009 VR's and ex C744
Maybe it will trigger management to spend some money to provide a GPS position feed from the a/c to the iPad's on the flight deck to link into the aerodrome charts for those fleets (inc B744) that don't have a buillt in EFB?
Nah, thought not!
one of the 78 2009 VR's and ex C744
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: on the golf course (Covid permitting)
Posts: 2,131
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mr AfP
Can't see that commuting can in any way form a part of the JNB incident, bearing in mind that they will have been in JNB at least 48 hrs if they operated in.
Can't see that commuting can in any way form a part of the JNB incident, bearing in mind that they will have been in JNB at least 48 hrs if they operated in.
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: LHR
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A lesson learnt
Aviation is an industry that learns from its mistakes.
Some of these are major catastrophes, others much more minor events. They do however have a golden opportunity to prevent such things happening again.
The recurring theme is that at some point, something will go wrong to somebody, and this affects us all however experienced or book smart.
I'm not a big fan of apportioning blame onto the crew for the sake of finding a head to put on a plate, nor do I find it very sporting 'Nigel' bashing, enjoying seeing BA knocked down a peg with an air of moral superiority.
Safety affects us all, doesn't matter what the paint job is on the fuselage.
Better lighting, and forms of assistance aren't an admission of defeat, it's an acceptance that we're human and any help we can get is good. Many of us have made mistakes, not by some element of unconscientious ineptitude, but by the fact we get distracted, confused and occasionally muddled up.
It could have been much worse, could have just missed the building and was just another close call, but that was circumstance.
A pilot getting blamed and sacked is great for those wanting blood, but it doesn't stop a repeat incident and next time could be the time the building is full and people die.
Moral superiority doesn't count for much then.
Some of these are major catastrophes, others much more minor events. They do however have a golden opportunity to prevent such things happening again.
The recurring theme is that at some point, something will go wrong to somebody, and this affects us all however experienced or book smart.
I'm not a big fan of apportioning blame onto the crew for the sake of finding a head to put on a plate, nor do I find it very sporting 'Nigel' bashing, enjoying seeing BA knocked down a peg with an air of moral superiority.
Safety affects us all, doesn't matter what the paint job is on the fuselage.
Better lighting, and forms of assistance aren't an admission of defeat, it's an acceptance that we're human and any help we can get is good. Many of us have made mistakes, not by some element of unconscientious ineptitude, but by the fact we get distracted, confused and occasionally muddled up.
It could have been much worse, could have just missed the building and was just another close call, but that was circumstance.
A pilot getting blamed and sacked is great for those wanting blood, but it doesn't stop a repeat incident and next time could be the time the building is full and people die.
Moral superiority doesn't count for much then.
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Somewhere Over America
Posts: 192
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Some mom in her Kia minivan has better ground navigation then us in $50 million plus jets.
The write off with BA at Johannesburg would have put a bunch of TSO'ed ground GPS mapping units in a bunch of jets. A PA / KLM at Tenerife or NWA at DTW only exasperates the blood on the FAA's hands.
Lower then 30 knots with the plane not commanded in the TOGA mode should have the Jepp 10/9 page on both NAV displays.
It's cheaper to program aircraft / airport specific into the data base vs. heads down with 1900 technology paper taxi diagrams or iPads.
The write off with BA at Johannesburg would have put a bunch of TSO'ed ground GPS mapping units in a bunch of jets. A PA / KLM at Tenerife or NWA at DTW only exasperates the blood on the FAA's hands.
Lower then 30 knots with the plane not commanded in the TOGA mode should have the Jepp 10/9 page on both NAV displays.
It's cheaper to program aircraft / airport specific into the data base vs. heads down with 1900 technology paper taxi diagrams or iPads.
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 18,579
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Tech_log
but it doesn't stop a repeat incident
Incidentally, I believe the 'no blame' culture was originally developed to encourage admission of error which might have otherwise been 'missed'. This incident is a little different - difficult to 'miss'.
Taxi Charts
Six or seven years ago I flew an HS125 with JeppView with the Collins ProLine 21 cockpit display. This showed GPS derived aircraft position on the PFD superimposed on the Jepp Area, Let Down, and Taxi Charts. The NHP had this displayed on his MFD as appropriate.
I even have this facility on a a 4 seat Cessna with the same information displayed on the Garmin screen.
The B744 has a Honeywell glass cockpit, may not be JeppView compatible. If BA invested in this system it would probably eliminate taxiing errors such as this as your present position is shown in real time.
Such investment would have saved a whole lot of money in this incident.
My IPad also has this facility using SkyDemon at about 150 quid a year!!
I even have this facility on a a 4 seat Cessna with the same information displayed on the Garmin screen.
The B744 has a Honeywell glass cockpit, may not be JeppView compatible. If BA invested in this system it would probably eliminate taxiing errors such as this as your present position is shown in real time.
Such investment would have saved a whole lot of money in this incident.
My IPad also has this facility using SkyDemon at about 150 quid a year!!
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: on the golf course (Covid permitting)
Posts: 2,131
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SW
And your proof is where?
Personally I can't believe it. I have taxied out to 03L many times for BA on the B744, as a pilot, and I know the junction in question, and whilst I can believe that the situation is 'raw', I can't believe that they towed an aircraft to the the threshold.
I could believe that as an interim procedure that they have introduced a 'follow me' car, but no more than that pending any recommendations.
I'm sorry but I don't believe you!
And your proof is where?
Personally I can't believe it. I have taxied out to 03L many times for BA on the B744, as a pilot, and I know the junction in question, and whilst I can believe that the situation is 'raw', I can't believe that they towed an aircraft to the the threshold.
I could believe that as an interim procedure that they have introduced a 'follow me' car, but no more than that pending any recommendations.
I'm sorry but I don't believe you!
