ANOTHER bail-out for SAA!!!
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Syckes : 
Bergie : Nothing at all to do with 'Failed to get into SAA and I'm now I'm a bitter and twisted individual club'. Simply stating facts.Sorry if you don't like it but this topic is not the place for you to have a go, it's a different topic altogether.
Bergie : Nothing at all to do with 'Failed to get into SAA and I'm now I'm a bitter and twisted individual club'. Simply stating facts.Sorry if you don't like it but this topic is not the place for you to have a go, it's a different topic altogether.
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Bergie, that is the biggest load of crap I have ever read. 'Best you could do was comair' I would far rather work for a company like comair where you are contributing to a successful company, and earning your keep, rather than work for a failed government entity, and turn a blind eye because they are lining your pocket, at the cost of the industry in general. Come on man. Oh, and you forgot to add a 'd' 'never applied, dont intend to, the only reason i take an interest is because i don't agree with my tax contribution being used to line your pockets!'
SAA was once a great company, unfortunately now, it is just waiting to join the 'failed African airline' list.
SAA was once a great company, unfortunately now, it is just waiting to join the 'failed African airline' list.
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Bergie get your head out of the chief pilots rear end at SAA OPS.
I dont fly for any airline and also find your comment offensive.
I suggest you go and and fluff the captains pillow and put out the sick bags for the crew while doing your P3 ride london
I dont fly for any airline and also find your comment offensive.
I suggest you go and and fluff the captains pillow and put out the sick bags for the crew while doing your P3 ride london
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Bergie, no, I do not fly for SAA nor did I apply but certainly hold no grudge or bad sentiment towards the airline. Private suits me just fine at this point in time thank you very much.
As for my post, it is just my opinion and some information I recall from a long time ago when a family member was an high ranking official in the Transport ministry. But as was said previously, if the shoe fits.... I would love to see SAA financials in the black and making good profit year on year. It is just my idea of what a coarse of action could be to get the figures back on track.
But this again, is just my opinion.
As for my post, it is just my opinion and some information I recall from a long time ago when a family member was an high ranking official in the Transport ministry. But as was said previously, if the shoe fits.... I would love to see SAA financials in the black and making good profit year on year. It is just my idea of what a coarse of action could be to get the figures back on track.
But this again, is just my opinion.
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Bergie, it's pointless trying to ruffle the feathers of others. I think one has to realise that unless one is fortunate to fly for the national carrier, one will automatically have lots to say about them, which is not unwarranted.
The best is to keep low, enjoy your perks and salary, be grateful that you managed to get in, and hope the politicians don't destroy from a Flight Operations point of view what is a very good, safe airline. We all look forward to the day SAA gets run on economic principles and not political ones.
The best is to keep low, enjoy your perks and salary, be grateful that you managed to get in, and hope the politicians don't destroy from a Flight Operations point of view what is a very good, safe airline. We all look forward to the day SAA gets run on economic principles and not political ones.
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Bergie,
The justifiable point about "Being critical of the pilots salaries at SAA" is: Where do they get paid from?
If those salaries were paid from the revenues of a profitable airline, then the pilots have something rightly to be 'proud' of. (Although, being 'proud' is sadly a much overused 'Saffer' term!)
If those salaries can only be paid through being propped up by the taxpayer, then pilots at SAA (like you?) should just shut up and keep their heads down as there is nothing to be 'proud' of. Just think, those pilots in 1Time were paying taxes that went towards supporting SAA pilots' salaries. The same with the various taxes paid (though their various purchases) by the cleaner in the (commercially viable) supermarket, that in their own small way also contribute towards supporting SAA pilots' salaries. Is that something to be 'proud' of? No, that is something that justifies the term "Losers" to be thrown back at you.
And as for 'benchmarks' for salaries? The only true benchmark is 'What is needed to pay the pilots in order to retain them so that the airline can stay in profit?' You appear to be ex-SAAF (nothing fundamentally wrong with that though!) where you haven't got away from the idea that spending money is what the job is all about and you haven't got it into your head that making money is what the job should be about.
The 'Losers' are those who are working in a commercial world but have to have their salaries propped up by the taxpayer because their airline is a commercial 'loser'. But the true 'Losers' are the taxpayers that are tolerating this!!
The justifiable point about "Being critical of the pilots salaries at SAA" is: Where do they get paid from?
If those salaries were paid from the revenues of a profitable airline, then the pilots have something rightly to be 'proud' of. (Although, being 'proud' is sadly a much overused 'Saffer' term!)
If those salaries can only be paid through being propped up by the taxpayer, then pilots at SAA (like you?) should just shut up and keep their heads down as there is nothing to be 'proud' of. Just think, those pilots in 1Time were paying taxes that went towards supporting SAA pilots' salaries. The same with the various taxes paid (though their various purchases) by the cleaner in the (commercially viable) supermarket, that in their own small way also contribute towards supporting SAA pilots' salaries. Is that something to be 'proud' of? No, that is something that justifies the term "Losers" to be thrown back at you.
And as for 'benchmarks' for salaries? The only true benchmark is 'What is needed to pay the pilots in order to retain them so that the airline can stay in profit?' You appear to be ex-SAAF (nothing fundamentally wrong with that though!) where you haven't got away from the idea that spending money is what the job is all about and you haven't got it into your head that making money is what the job should be about.
The 'Losers' are those who are working in a commercial world but have to have their salaries propped up by the taxpayer because their airline is a commercial 'loser'. But the true 'Losers' are the taxpayers that are tolerating this!!
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Bergie you are an arrogant ! Your rant was so pathetic and mis informed. It sounds like you've had a silver spoon in your mouth all your life while someone wipes your arse every time you take a dump. Takes your blinkers off and see the world around you .. It might come as a surprise .
! Your rant was so pathetic and mis informed. It sounds like you've had a silver spoon in your mouth all your life while someone wipes your arse every time you take a dump. Takes your blinkers off and see the world around you .. It might come as a surprise .
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I can understand people's frustration with the SAA bailout - but what's new? This has been happening for some time now and isn't about to change anytime soon.
In global terms, SAA is about as significant as a fart in a thunderstorm (60 planes, 40 routes - please), it's just that the memo hasn't got to certain members of it's flight ops department yet.
For those that aren't employed there, in the interest of your longevity, might I suggest you concern yourself more with things you can change and worry less about the things you can't. I guarantee you'll be better off for it.
In global terms, SAA is about as significant as a fart in a thunderstorm (60 planes, 40 routes - please), it's just that the memo hasn't got to certain members of it's flight ops department yet.
For those that aren't employed there, in the interest of your longevity, might I suggest you concern yourself more with things you can change and worry less about the things you can't. I guarantee you'll be better off for it.
Last edited by journeyman; 25th Jan 2013 at 15:22.
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And now for some more on the issue....
I can understand guys like Bergie - their aggressive posturing is an ingrained-yet-feeble attempt to cover what must be a seriously biting sense of embarrassment > whether they realise it or not.
...Forgive them father, for they know not what they do.
"Cape Town – State-owned airline South African Airways (SAA) needs to borrow a further R535m against its government guarantee to cover operating costs.
The airline received a R400m loan in January.
A source close to the airline who wished to remain anonymous told Beeld about the latest amount, and said the airline needs the funds for costs including fuel and salaries.
SAA spokesperson Tlali Tlali confirmed to Beeld that the SAA needs more cash, but did not want to confirm the amount of R535m, saying the airline is still talking to financial institutions.
He said the airline would be borrowing the money from these institutions, using the R5bn government guarantee as security.
“This R5bn was divided into two parts of which one part, R1.5bn, is only available till March 31 2013. We’ve borrowed the R400m against this amount, and now we’re pursuing another amount.
"This new amount is less than the remaining balance of R1.1bn.”
Government gave SAA the guarantee in October last year, after the carrier made a loss of R1.3bn for the year to March 31 2012 and amid growing concern about its continued viability.
In line with the global industry trend, the airline is struggling under the burden of high oil prices and lower demand. SAA also has a weakened balance sheet after having its capital wiped out over the past few years.
SAA’s money troubles started in 2004, when the airline made a hedging loss of R6bn. This hedge was taken out to protect the airline against rising fuel costs, only for oil prices to drop massively in the period.
Since 1992 the SAA has lost a total of about R17bn.
Natasha Michael, DA spokesperson on public enterprises, said of greatest concern is the extent of SAA’s money troubles and the lack of transparency around the issue.
“Why does the airline need cash every month? Initially we were told SAA needs the guarantee to assist in turning it around and recapitalising the airline. Now it appears the money is needed to fund operations.”
Tlali told Beeld it was always the intention to use a part of the guarantee to borrow money for operational costs.
“There is a plan, and per this plan some cash is needed to tide the airline over till things are better. It must also be made clear the SAA did not get any money from government and will need to repay these loans to the banks.
"Government is only the guarantor.”
- Fin24
I can understand guys like Bergie - their aggressive posturing is an ingrained-yet-feeble attempt to cover what must be a seriously biting sense of embarrassment > whether they realise it or not.
...Forgive them father, for they know not what they do.
"Cape Town – State-owned airline South African Airways (SAA) needs to borrow a further R535m against its government guarantee to cover operating costs.
The airline received a R400m loan in January.
A source close to the airline who wished to remain anonymous told Beeld about the latest amount, and said the airline needs the funds for costs including fuel and salaries.
SAA spokesperson Tlali Tlali confirmed to Beeld that the SAA needs more cash, but did not want to confirm the amount of R535m, saying the airline is still talking to financial institutions.
He said the airline would be borrowing the money from these institutions, using the R5bn government guarantee as security.
“This R5bn was divided into two parts of which one part, R1.5bn, is only available till March 31 2013. We’ve borrowed the R400m against this amount, and now we’re pursuing another amount.
"This new amount is less than the remaining balance of R1.1bn.”
Government gave SAA the guarantee in October last year, after the carrier made a loss of R1.3bn for the year to March 31 2012 and amid growing concern about its continued viability.
In line with the global industry trend, the airline is struggling under the burden of high oil prices and lower demand. SAA also has a weakened balance sheet after having its capital wiped out over the past few years.
SAA’s money troubles started in 2004, when the airline made a hedging loss of R6bn. This hedge was taken out to protect the airline against rising fuel costs, only for oil prices to drop massively in the period.
Since 1992 the SAA has lost a total of about R17bn.
Natasha Michael, DA spokesperson on public enterprises, said of greatest concern is the extent of SAA’s money troubles and the lack of transparency around the issue.
“Why does the airline need cash every month? Initially we were told SAA needs the guarantee to assist in turning it around and recapitalising the airline. Now it appears the money is needed to fund operations.”
Tlali told Beeld it was always the intention to use a part of the guarantee to borrow money for operational costs.
“There is a plan, and per this plan some cash is needed to tide the airline over till things are better. It must also be made clear the SAA did not get any money from government and will need to repay these loans to the banks.
"Government is only the guarantor.”
- Fin24
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well with 8000 permanent employees who knows when the bleeding will stop.....If SAA goes under so does Mango , Airchefs and a whole lot more......
Nevertheless , SAA flight ops make this a great airline to work for
Nevertheless , SAA flight ops make this a great airline to work for
Last edited by Ghost_Rider737; 8th Feb 2013 at 16:27.
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Hey Bergie, it's time for another troll post - give it your best shot, we have faith. I think you're going to have to up your subtlety levels though - I thought the last one was too stupid to get a rise, but you pulled it off!
I am very definitely a wannabe though.....wannabe finished paying for SAA
I am very definitely a wannabe though.....wannabe finished paying for SAA
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"...If SAA goes under so does Mango , Airchefs and a whole lot more..." -- Yup, that's the way thing happen. Ask all those who were at Swissair, Sabena, Malev and any other 'national' airlines that have 'gone under'.
"For those that aren't employed there, in the interest of your longevity, might I suggest you concern yourself more with things you can change and worry less about the things you can't. I guarantee you'll be better off for it." -- This sounds a terrible comment on the state of affairs there: "This is where your taxes are going and you can't change it, so shut up and stop 'worrying'!"
"I am very definitely a wannabe though.....wannabe finished paying for SAA" -- And so should every tax-payer there be.
And for all the 'Bergies' out there, when you pay at the till at a supermarket, hold you head up high with pride and think to yourself, "This check-out teller, through her/his meagre earnings is paying tax to contribute to my pay".
If the taxes there went more into crime reduction and lowering the rate of road deaths it would make SA a more pleasant place to stay and could make having a job with SAA more desirable. Until then, lump it. A job that supports itself (without the taxpayer having to cough up) in a low crime location and safe roads is much, much more desirable.
"For those that aren't employed there, in the interest of your longevity, might I suggest you concern yourself more with things you can change and worry less about the things you can't. I guarantee you'll be better off for it." -- This sounds a terrible comment on the state of affairs there: "This is where your taxes are going and you can't change it, so shut up and stop 'worrying'!"
"I am very definitely a wannabe though.....wannabe finished paying for SAA" -- And so should every tax-payer there be.
And for all the 'Bergies' out there, when you pay at the till at a supermarket, hold you head up high with pride and think to yourself, "This check-out teller, through her/his meagre earnings is paying tax to contribute to my pay".
If the taxes there went more into crime reduction and lowering the rate of road deaths it would make SA a more pleasant place to stay and could make having a job with SAA more desirable. Until then, lump it. A job that supports itself (without the taxpayer having to cough up) in a low crime location and safe roads is much, much more desirable.
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...but the best-of-the-best deserve our tax money don't they?
Like our cricket and rugby teams, it is said that these heros are the face of South African aviation. So give them a break. We should carry them on high.
LMFAO at the Jacob Zuma Co-Pilot Club right now.
> I see the acting chief has also been given the boot now. WTF is going on in that cesspit?
February 11 2013 at 11:00pm
“This is based on certain allegations that have come to the attention of the board, in respect of which the board has a fiduciary duty to investigate,” it said in a statement.
“It must be stressed that the board has not come to any conclusion as to the veracity or otherwise of these allegations.”
Kona's suspension was with immediate effect.
SAA said its board of directors was in the process of recruiting a permanent CEO.
Applications had been received and the board was evaluating them.
“The board is confident that this process will be completed by 31 March 2013, at which time recommendations will be presented to the Minister of Public Enterprises Malusi Gigaba.”
The board had asked Mango CEO Nico Bezuidenhout to oversee the group's operations, SAA said. - Sapa
....soon my friends....soon.
Like our cricket and rugby teams, it is said that these heros are the face of South African aviation. So give them a break. We should carry them on high.
LMFAO at the Jacob Zuma Co-Pilot Club right now.
> I see the acting chief has also been given the boot now. WTF is going on in that cesspit?
February 11 2013 at 11:00pm
“This is based on certain allegations that have come to the attention of the board, in respect of which the board has a fiduciary duty to investigate,” it said in a statement.
“It must be stressed that the board has not come to any conclusion as to the veracity or otherwise of these allegations.”
Kona's suspension was with immediate effect.
SAA said its board of directors was in the process of recruiting a permanent CEO.
Applications had been received and the board was evaluating them.
“The board is confident that this process will be completed by 31 March 2013, at which time recommendations will be presented to the Minister of Public Enterprises Malusi Gigaba.”
The board had asked Mango CEO Nico Bezuidenhout to oversee the group's operations, SAA said. - Sapa
....soon my friends....soon.
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All this controversy ......finally we have some light at the end of the tunnel. Ground breaking announcement to be made shortly....
Watch this space......
SAA ....still the most awesome airline to fly for !!!!
Watch this space......
SAA ....still the most awesome airline to fly for !!!!
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SAA ... still the most awesome airline to pay for.
But you have a point GR.
Hardly do any work compared to other airlines, hardly have large number of routes, get paid shedloads more, and never have to show a profit or create repeat customers. Sounds like utopia.
But you have a point GR.
Hardly do any work compared to other airlines, hardly have large number of routes, get paid shedloads more, and never have to show a profit or create repeat customers. Sounds like utopia.
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IR PIRATE.....while I share most of your sentiments I didn't mean to sound like a pompass p***k.
We just have a great Flight Ops department. That's what makes it great.
No more no less.......
We just have a great Flight Ops department. That's what makes it great.
No more no less.......
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I have been at SAA (and the SAAF - Bergie, note two A's) and still have many good, competent friends at SAA. I don't belong to that imaginary, fictitious club Bergie mentioned but I have left for sandier pastures.
The way SAA is being mis-manged, the burden this places on the tax payer and the unfair competitive advantage (I use this term loosely) it enjoys because of such "advantage", is nothing short of disgraceful. In the "real" world, the doors would have shut long ago!
Bergie, if you think that because you are at SAA you are better than the hard-working folk at Comair, SAX, Airlink and any other SA company, then you need to wake up, smell the roses and have a reality check! We all know that there are pilots at SAA today who did not get in on "merit" alone! For every one of those that got in, someone else did not! Count yourself lucky or "connected".
For those not at SAA, don't ridicule those who are. Seriously, do you really think SAA pilots are to "blame" for the predicament the airline finds itself in? Why should SAA pilots, those who actually worked hard to be where they are, hang their heads in shame as a result of a flawed senior management selection process, based on political affiliation with little or no regard for leadership, intelligence, limitations or shortcomings?
Come on guys, engage your brain before you engage your keyboard and post some sensible sh!t!
The way SAA is being mis-manged, the burden this places on the tax payer and the unfair competitive advantage (I use this term loosely) it enjoys because of such "advantage", is nothing short of disgraceful. In the "real" world, the doors would have shut long ago!
Bergie, if you think that because you are at SAA you are better than the hard-working folk at Comair, SAX, Airlink and any other SA company, then you need to wake up, smell the roses and have a reality check! We all know that there are pilots at SAA today who did not get in on "merit" alone! For every one of those that got in, someone else did not! Count yourself lucky or "connected".
For those not at SAA, don't ridicule those who are. Seriously, do you really think SAA pilots are to "blame" for the predicament the airline finds itself in? Why should SAA pilots, those who actually worked hard to be where they are, hang their heads in shame as a result of a flawed senior management selection process, based on political affiliation with little or no regard for leadership, intelligence, limitations or shortcomings?
Come on guys, engage your brain before you engage your keyboard and post some sensible sh!t!
Last edited by El Peligroso; 13th Feb 2013 at 16:22.
