SAA asks for a R6-billion handout
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Shrike 200 - When I mentioned the "new aircraft" I was referring to the problem posed by SAA's long range and ultra-long range routes. They have stopped making the A340 at the factory, a while ago, which is an admission by Airbus that it has been replaced by better, more fuel efficient aircraft. Like the ones other major carriers fly. Also, the passenger experience (seats, in-flight entertainment, wifi, etc...) on a brand new 777, A380, 787, A350 is much better than in a late nineties aeroplane. The only long range aeroplane in our fleet that gives our competition a run for their money are our A332.
As for "insultary," I think that word can be put down to the poetic creativity found in a pilot that has flown through the night... Sorry, I meant 'full of insults.'
With regard to strategic importance, I was quoting Trevor Manual.
With regard to costs (taxes, etc...) I was trying to put the point across that SAA cannot be compared to other RSA airlines because it is operating on a relatively gigantic scale. The economic effect of weather delays, the places we operate to, etc... are other factors - the principle of comparing apples with pears.
With that in mind, a large portion of SAA's competition are also government backed.
As for "insultary," I think that word can be put down to the poetic creativity found in a pilot that has flown through the night... Sorry, I meant 'full of insults.'
With regard to strategic importance, I was quoting Trevor Manual.
With regard to costs (taxes, etc...) I was trying to put the point across that SAA cannot be compared to other RSA airlines because it is operating on a relatively gigantic scale. The economic effect of weather delays, the places we operate to, etc... are other factors - the principle of comparing apples with pears.
With that in mind, a large portion of SAA's competition are also government backed.
Está servira para distraerle.
As was evidenced in the recent trip to the USA by the ever humble and frugally public spirited Jacob Zuma, the South African Air Force has shown itself incapable of providing the equipment necessary to satisfy the presidential transport needs. It is entirely right and proper therefore that South African Airways should receive from the state and the tax payer as appropriate, whatever subsidies are necessary to keep aircraft available at a state of 24/7 readiness so that they can be hired by the SAAF in order to provide the proper form of transport for the president and his sleeping arrangements. The last such trip to the USA apparently required three aircraft to be dispatched in case one or two broke down. With a maintenance reputation as poor as that, it is hardly surprising that the Office of the State President authorises such funding when dealing with his perception of the vagaries of maintenance of the state airline.
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cry me a river
just because you didnt get into SAA doesnt mean you have the right to slag them off every 5min... cry me a river and move on! Its our national carrier, so love it, and ask any pilot who they would want to fly for, and they will say... SAA! And then ask any pilot at SAA if they are happy, and the answer will always be YES, its the best airline in the world!
Está servira para distraerle.
SAA is a slave of the South African government and so of course every South African has an absolute constitutional right to slag the thing off every time they might want to. It's a freedom charter thing, don't you know?
It is a pathetic rebuttal to claim that any criticism of SAA comes from those who did not get in to the parastatal parasite. One might as well attribute jealousy and green eyed monstrosity all around one, a trait which does nothing other than exemplify the small mindedness of those who use such an excuse.
There are many pilots who use objective decision making to formulate their own opinions and a healthy disdain for South African Airways and its truly appalling concept of customer relations and cabin staff training in no way shape or form implies envy, rather a degree of healthy discrimination. So many that do join SAA only use the government branch as a stepping stone to the likes of Qantas, Virgin, Emirates, Cathay and even EasyJet that the quality of the department speaks for itself. The salary structure is, of course, sufficiently significant so as to dissuade most who fly for the company from leaving. That's an important incentive to keep one enchained.
As for trying to get into SAA, speaking personally, I am too old and too experienced to do so. When you had to be a South African, I was not yet one, when you had to speak Afrikaans, I never could, when you had to know a training captain or two, I never did. All in all I never fell into the prism of what some might term qualified bigotry necessary for entry into the national carrier of South Africa. Now of course, speaking reflectively, if you cop the drift, the tradition of bias continues.
Having said all of that, let me close this little article by saying that the quality of training for SAA flight crews is probably among the best in the world. The SAA captains of my acquaintance are fine and upstanding fellows who are absolutely professional in every aspect of their trade. They are of course grossly overpaid but then that is their good fortune. I do sincerely hope that the same qualities of character as applies to the commanders can be attributed to the first officers of South Africa's so heavily subsidized transport company. I have my doubts but then I distrust political mouthpieces.
It is a pathetic rebuttal to claim that any criticism of SAA comes from those who did not get in to the parastatal parasite. One might as well attribute jealousy and green eyed monstrosity all around one, a trait which does nothing other than exemplify the small mindedness of those who use such an excuse.
There are many pilots who use objective decision making to formulate their own opinions and a healthy disdain for South African Airways and its truly appalling concept of customer relations and cabin staff training in no way shape or form implies envy, rather a degree of healthy discrimination. So many that do join SAA only use the government branch as a stepping stone to the likes of Qantas, Virgin, Emirates, Cathay and even EasyJet that the quality of the department speaks for itself. The salary structure is, of course, sufficiently significant so as to dissuade most who fly for the company from leaving. That's an important incentive to keep one enchained.
As for trying to get into SAA, speaking personally, I am too old and too experienced to do so. When you had to be a South African, I was not yet one, when you had to speak Afrikaans, I never could, when you had to know a training captain or two, I never did. All in all I never fell into the prism of what some might term qualified bigotry necessary for entry into the national carrier of South Africa. Now of course, speaking reflectively, if you cop the drift, the tradition of bias continues.
Having said all of that, let me close this little article by saying that the quality of training for SAA flight crews is probably among the best in the world. The SAA captains of my acquaintance are fine and upstanding fellows who are absolutely professional in every aspect of their trade. They are of course grossly overpaid but then that is their good fortune. I do sincerely hope that the same qualities of character as applies to the commanders can be attributed to the first officers of South Africa's so heavily subsidized transport company. I have my doubts but then I distrust political mouthpieces.
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My gosh I think we all need to stand up and salute you oh lord you! The part that I am refering to is that you are now, "too experienced!" hahaha... Yes I must admit Gerneral Chuck Yeager was turned away from American Airlines because he was, "too experienced!" They wanted someone who couldnt fly and possesed no brain cells.
Back to reality, you didnt get in, you are sour, you hold a grudge etc etc etc. But if you did get in back in the days, you would now be happy with a big house and nice car and have a smile on your face... But alas im sure you are stuck somewhere flying a C172 and blame SAA for everything. You didnt cut in then and maybe this is the reason, the physcometric test would have spotted you a mile out!
And with regards to the pilots salary at SAA, you know absolutely nothing! Did you know that a few years before the rainbow nation arrived in 1994, SAA pilots earned less than the pilots at the Airforce. The new management then analysed the salaries from various airlines around the world, along with living conditions and imparticular the cost of living of those countries. They then brought SAA pilot salaries inline with what they would and should be as compared to other airlines around the world! So in laymens terms most if not all large airlines in the world, their pilots earn the same amount no matter what country they are in. This is all relative to infaltion, cost of living etc etc etc...
So get off SAA's back and look at the other airlines who are now stepping up to the table with their pay scale. Hell a co-pilot at Nationwide used to earn R11000pm! Would that be ok with you?
ps. You never had to speak Afrikaans, that was only in the airforce to fly jets so the fighter pilots could communicate in a dog fight without the "others" listening or understanding... Same as rugby and cricket etc etc etc bla bla bla.
Back to reality, you didnt get in, you are sour, you hold a grudge etc etc etc. But if you did get in back in the days, you would now be happy with a big house and nice car and have a smile on your face... But alas im sure you are stuck somewhere flying a C172 and blame SAA for everything. You didnt cut in then and maybe this is the reason, the physcometric test would have spotted you a mile out!
And with regards to the pilots salary at SAA, you know absolutely nothing! Did you know that a few years before the rainbow nation arrived in 1994, SAA pilots earned less than the pilots at the Airforce. The new management then analysed the salaries from various airlines around the world, along with living conditions and imparticular the cost of living of those countries. They then brought SAA pilot salaries inline with what they would and should be as compared to other airlines around the world! So in laymens terms most if not all large airlines in the world, their pilots earn the same amount no matter what country they are in. This is all relative to infaltion, cost of living etc etc etc...
So get off SAA's back and look at the other airlines who are now stepping up to the table with their pay scale. Hell a co-pilot at Nationwide used to earn R11000pm! Would that be ok with you?
ps. You never had to speak Afrikaans, that was only in the airforce to fly jets so the fighter pilots could communicate in a dog fight without the "others" listening or understanding... Same as rugby and cricket etc etc etc bla bla bla.
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Originally Posted by michaelbarns
just because you didnt get into SAA doesnt mean you have the right to slag them off every 5min... cry me a river and move on! Its our national carrier, so love it, and ask any pilot who they would want to fly for, and they will say... SAA! And then ask any pilot at SAA if they are happy, and the answer will always be YES, its the best airline in the world!
Why would somebody be critical of a company they had applied to just because they didn't get in? Maybe critical of the selection process, the method's of testing etc....anyway. Not everybody is the sour grape type, in fact most aren't. If you had thought about it, you would have realised how self-evident this fact is. But you didn't. So you didn't.
Also, this isn't (to me at least) really about SAA pilot salaries, although I still maintain that the company could tell them '10-15% pay cut, take it or leave it' and not sit with a single crewing issue at all. And certainly if it was a profitable company, paid back its debt, they could be earning a million a month and I could be as green as I liked, I wouldn't have a leg to stand if I was to be a critic. For the same reason, if SA was a galactic superpower and had cash to spare then state sponsorship, while 'unfair', would not be too much of a sore point. BUT it's not. Look around. SA has far, far more pressing issues than propping up an airline that can't fend for itself. Again, there is nothing that SAA does that cannot be done by somebody else IMHO - somebody that does NOT cost the SA government (ie SA taxpayer) anything.
Está servira para distraerle.
Contrary to what many provincial pilots or aspirant flyers might think, South African Airways is not now nor ever has been the ne plus ultra of airlines. That is most unfortunate for certain human elements of the company ego structure.
In aviation career application, there are many who have taken other very successful and rewarding paths in aviation, who have never even considered applying to Spoories and who are now far too experienced to reduce themselves to the ranks of an African airline F/O, no matter how worthy those flying individuals might be.
Virgin Atlantic, as one good example for instance, is a serious piece of flying kit with beautifully talented hostesses to match the accomplishments of management. That seems, on at least one aspect, to be something that might be in less than vast supply at SAA; one speaks here of course only, and with great diffidence of management. There are many professional pilots out there who simply don't want to work for what they might perceive to be a badly run outfit, no matter what the short term wonga might be.
The back to be got off (sic), which is not very good English I admit, is of course that of the SA government which persists in subsidizing a company which might perhaps, in the climate of the private sector, sink with a rate of acceleration greater than that of the Titanic hurtling towards its watery doom. Salaries are a matter of significant importance relevant to the extent to which they are subsidized by the tax payer. That would include the consideration of any public funded pension schemes which might or might not apply. The SAA pilot's collective did indeed do very well for themselves at the time of the great negotiation and they are to be commended for having done so. Corporate financial history however is littered with the desiccated skeletons of companies who thought they were above the exigencies of financial restructuring necessitated by a changing economic situation whether global, domestic, parastatal, parasitic or private.
Now for a quick venture into a teeny digression in the face of some slightly hysterical personal criticism. Everyone interested in South African aviation was aware of the SA pilots salary structure campaign some years ago. It would not however be politic to reproduce certain letters which appeared in Flight International at that time. Flight International is a pretty decent sort of aviation magazine but it is an unhappy truth that many pilots do not more than read the back six pages or so at a news stand and so many would have missed the fun and games in the letters pages.
A Partaga Lusitania or a Cohiba Espendido is an indulgence. Tonight my total extent of self flattery would be that I can tell the difference between the two on aroma alone.
As for psychometrics, I can fiddle a Rorschach test blindfolded, having had the benefit of a virtual degree in practical clinical psychology from the Tavistock Clinic, Portman Square, London which used to process, among other oddities, those who would be pilots when their fathers wanted them to become bankers and their mothers wanted them to wear uniforms.
Totsiens.
In aviation career application, there are many who have taken other very successful and rewarding paths in aviation, who have never even considered applying to Spoories and who are now far too experienced to reduce themselves to the ranks of an African airline F/O, no matter how worthy those flying individuals might be.
Virgin Atlantic, as one good example for instance, is a serious piece of flying kit with beautifully talented hostesses to match the accomplishments of management. That seems, on at least one aspect, to be something that might be in less than vast supply at SAA; one speaks here of course only, and with great diffidence of management. There are many professional pilots out there who simply don't want to work for what they might perceive to be a badly run outfit, no matter what the short term wonga might be.
The back to be got off (sic), which is not very good English I admit, is of course that of the SA government which persists in subsidizing a company which might perhaps, in the climate of the private sector, sink with a rate of acceleration greater than that of the Titanic hurtling towards its watery doom. Salaries are a matter of significant importance relevant to the extent to which they are subsidized by the tax payer. That would include the consideration of any public funded pension schemes which might or might not apply. The SAA pilot's collective did indeed do very well for themselves at the time of the great negotiation and they are to be commended for having done so. Corporate financial history however is littered with the desiccated skeletons of companies who thought they were above the exigencies of financial restructuring necessitated by a changing economic situation whether global, domestic, parastatal, parasitic or private.
Now for a quick venture into a teeny digression in the face of some slightly hysterical personal criticism. Everyone interested in South African aviation was aware of the SA pilots salary structure campaign some years ago. It would not however be politic to reproduce certain letters which appeared in Flight International at that time. Flight International is a pretty decent sort of aviation magazine but it is an unhappy truth that many pilots do not more than read the back six pages or so at a news stand and so many would have missed the fun and games in the letters pages.
A Partaga Lusitania or a Cohiba Espendido is an indulgence. Tonight my total extent of self flattery would be that I can tell the difference between the two on aroma alone.
As for psychometrics, I can fiddle a Rorschach test blindfolded, having had the benefit of a virtual degree in practical clinical psychology from the Tavistock Clinic, Portman Square, London which used to process, among other oddities, those who would be pilots when their fathers wanted them to become bankers and their mothers wanted them to wear uniforms.
Totsiens.
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My God you have a big head, seriously... love the virtual degree though! I have lit a fire for you on this cold night ino order to help blow smoke up your ass. Please there is one golden rule in life, and thats not to blow your own trumpet and tell people how good you are, yet you never made it. And you made that mistake twice. Can we move on from your God persona? We understand that you are Neil Armstrongs brother with Chuck Yeagers DNA who has a degress from Harvard and is an MIT boffin. Woman must love you! "Chicks dig me cause im a rocket scientist!" Please dont ever make the mistake that you are now too good to ever be a F/O
Moving along, to ask SAA pilots for a 10-15% pay cut? And what is the reason for that? You say that it has nothing to do with SAA pilots but then quickly think they are overpayed...again, please. Why not ask your company for a 10-15% pay rise! And I would say by my assumption (we know how that goes) that no both of you did not get into SAA if infact you are a pilot at all. They have the largest and most modern fleet, so why wouldnt they pay the most. Management is one thing, but to go off at the people who work there, "pilots, cabin crew, ground crew etc" then you are seriosuly dilusional. And again, would you want to earn R30k pm at airline A or R50k pm at airline B.... Do you honestly want me to draw you a picture? Which idiot would turn that down? If you think for one second that I dont believe that you didnt get in and are now sour, well... please.... There are thousands of pilots who didnt make it into SAA, they packed up and moved on and found other great places to live and work, they dont hold a grudge....but then there are a few that hold a grudge...there are only a certain number of seats at the table so to speak. And now with BEE / AA etc etc etc. its even harder for "some" people to get in no matter what they have to offer. But thats the country we live in, the only one in the world where the majority has AA against the minority. We all know that there are far too many chiefs and not enough indians at SAA.
Just keep applying, if you give up then of course you wont get in.
Moving along, to ask SAA pilots for a 10-15% pay cut? And what is the reason for that? You say that it has nothing to do with SAA pilots but then quickly think they are overpayed...again, please. Why not ask your company for a 10-15% pay rise! And I would say by my assumption (we know how that goes) that no both of you did not get into SAA if infact you are a pilot at all. They have the largest and most modern fleet, so why wouldnt they pay the most. Management is one thing, but to go off at the people who work there, "pilots, cabin crew, ground crew etc" then you are seriosuly dilusional. And again, would you want to earn R30k pm at airline A or R50k pm at airline B.... Do you honestly want me to draw you a picture? Which idiot would turn that down? If you think for one second that I dont believe that you didnt get in and are now sour, well... please.... There are thousands of pilots who didnt make it into SAA, they packed up and moved on and found other great places to live and work, they dont hold a grudge....but then there are a few that hold a grudge...there are only a certain number of seats at the table so to speak. And now with BEE / AA etc etc etc. its even harder for "some" people to get in no matter what they have to offer. But thats the country we live in, the only one in the world where the majority has AA against the minority. We all know that there are far too many chiefs and not enough indians at SAA.
Just keep applying, if you give up then of course you wont get in.
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Dude, seriously. You're just not seeing what I'm saying. Your salary is irrelevant. The fact that your company cannot actually afford (in the world of actual financial reality, as opposed to SAA make believe fairyland) to pay you (any of you, not only pilots) what you earn is relevant. I don't have a CV at SAA. I don't want to work for what they are now. Sorry. Deal with it. I'm not jealous of you anymore than I'm jealous of anybody else who earns more than me. More money is always nice, but I earn what I consider is a reasonable salary. It's sustainable, it's based on reality. I like that. I don't expect you to understand, just accept it. And when I said 'pay cut' I was talking about financial reality - the fact of the matter is, in the world of supply and demand, you could take a pay cut, the company would save money, and still have enough crew to do the job. That's all I was saying. Relax.
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michaelbarns, you are an embarrassment to your fellow SAA pilots.
You are on a good package to fly planes, that is all. You don't have to defend SAA at every turn, there is a PR department to do that.
The high salaries paid to SAA pilots is a symptom of the lack of appropriate management within the company. It happens to be one of the most obvious examples of inept business practise that we are all privy to. We don't know the extent of gross over-employment of incompetent people within the company, or the wastage due to inefficient ordering practises (amongst the many unnecessary costs associated with SAA), so many people will deal with what they do know. So yes, everyone will moan about the salaries paid to SAA pilots, especially when being squeezed with high taxes, new tolls etc.
Please do not for one moment think that there is no better outfit than SAA. It is a good company to work for as a pilot, thanks to SAAPA. But SAA is not for everyone, and if you slide your seat back for a moment, you will realise that SAA is a small player in the world, and (sadly) getting smaller as a result of bad management and international competition.
If you are under the age of 50, I'll hazard a prediction that you not retire from SAA unless there are some very wide changes made at SAA, and quite frankly, if those changes are made, a 10-15% paycut will be the least of your worries.
Anyway, to return to my first statement, you are wasting your time and breath, you are in an undefendable position. Most SAA guys know this, so they don't engage in these discussions, especially not in the juvenile manner in which you have conducted yourself. I am sure the guys who do keep an eye on these pages are cringing at your emotive responses. That someone of your disposition is within the ranks of the "elite" shows that the selection process is not as effective as it once was.
You are on a good package to fly planes, that is all. You don't have to defend SAA at every turn, there is a PR department to do that.
The high salaries paid to SAA pilots is a symptom of the lack of appropriate management within the company. It happens to be one of the most obvious examples of inept business practise that we are all privy to. We don't know the extent of gross over-employment of incompetent people within the company, or the wastage due to inefficient ordering practises (amongst the many unnecessary costs associated with SAA), so many people will deal with what they do know. So yes, everyone will moan about the salaries paid to SAA pilots, especially when being squeezed with high taxes, new tolls etc.
Please do not for one moment think that there is no better outfit than SAA. It is a good company to work for as a pilot, thanks to SAAPA. But SAA is not for everyone, and if you slide your seat back for a moment, you will realise that SAA is a small player in the world, and (sadly) getting smaller as a result of bad management and international competition.
If you are under the age of 50, I'll hazard a prediction that you not retire from SAA unless there are some very wide changes made at SAA, and quite frankly, if those changes are made, a 10-15% paycut will be the least of your worries.
Anyway, to return to my first statement, you are wasting your time and breath, you are in an undefendable position. Most SAA guys know this, so they don't engage in these discussions, especially not in the juvenile manner in which you have conducted yourself. I am sure the guys who do keep an eye on these pages are cringing at your emotive responses. That someone of your disposition is within the ranks of the "elite" shows that the selection process is not as effective as it once was.
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yet you fly a Skyvan and moan because I support SAA? You are an embarresment to our country because at every turn you are happy to slate our national carrier. You need to read the previous posts to see what we are discussing instead of throwing your two cents worth by reading the last post and then making a comment. I dont think anyone particularly likes management, but what has management got to do with the SAA pilots and what they earn? Are you telling me for one second that you would turn down a pay increase at your company? Please this argument is getting pathetic. If you were a pilot you would know who you would most likely want to work for in South Africa, and that would be 95% of pilots. The rest enjoy coporate jet work. If a boypilot at SAA makes almost what a captain at Comair makes, its a no brainer. Ontop of that it is by far the most professional and enjoyable company to work for with the most modern fleet and a great bunch of crew, both front and back. You guys need to come to the realisation that SAA will never be closed down because it holds the countries name, everything goes through ups and downs. If they need to purchase 2 or 3 new aircraft for R6 billion rand, then yes it will reflect as a negative on their balance sheet for a year or two, then back to profit making. There is nothing that can be done about that. Aircraft are incredibly expensive, maybe we should go after Airbus or Boeing and ask them to lower their costs? Have some pride in your country, apart from what is going on behind closed doors, and please leave the pilots / crew out of this.
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MB - Do you have family running SAA? From your posts I find it difficult to derive that you arrived there on merit. Speaking of elite, does SAA employ pilots on merit and qualification alone? If the answer is No - then stop bragging about the elite, since that boat has left the harbour. Other airlines pay their pilots what they deem affordable whilst also bearing in mind skills retention. Their respective unions and management negotiate these structures, taking into account financial results. If SAA take financial results into consideration, you'd pobably have to pay to work at SAA. Don't insult us. There are many pilots in South Africa that are just as capable and professional as SAA's crew. SAA also has quite a few candidates that barely makes the grade, every airline has them, so get of your high horse, like SV said, you are embarrasing your collegues!
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Barns, I'll hazard a guess, you joined in the last couple of years, you were told repeatedly during the first week about how good you are, because SAA only takes the cream of the crop, and since you have "done your time" doing contract/smaller carrier, you believe what you have been told by the MMWC!
You are also very proud to work for SAA, and can't understand that anyone would prefer to work anywhere else.
So when someone shows the slightest negative sentiment towards SAA, you feel it is your duty to defend the "good name" of your employer.
This is quite honourable, if mis-guided. Demanding that people be proud of SAA just because they are South African is juvenile at best, and arrogant at worst.
I used to feel the same way, until over a coffee a a fellow captain (him on 320, me on 738), we discussed what there is to be proud of at SAA. The conclusion was very simple, there is little to be proud of at SAA, but there is huge potential within the company. If that could be harnessed and brought to fruition, then SAA would be an all-round awesome company to work for.
Don't make the mistake of projecting your feelings for Flight Ops (which is generally worthy) onto the rest of the company (which certainly isn't).
Can I recommend that you learn to exercise some discretion? You are obviously still young enough not to have your emotions fully in-check, which is leading you to expose yourself as a complete and utter tosser.
And do be careful who you insult and take-on while spending time on the forum, you never know when you'll be sitting beside them at work, or even sitting across the desk from them for whatever reason.
You are also very proud to work for SAA, and can't understand that anyone would prefer to work anywhere else.
So when someone shows the slightest negative sentiment towards SAA, you feel it is your duty to defend the "good name" of your employer.
This is quite honourable, if mis-guided. Demanding that people be proud of SAA just because they are South African is juvenile at best, and arrogant at worst.
I used to feel the same way, until over a coffee a a fellow captain (him on 320, me on 738), we discussed what there is to be proud of at SAA. The conclusion was very simple, there is little to be proud of at SAA, but there is huge potential within the company. If that could be harnessed and brought to fruition, then SAA would be an all-round awesome company to work for.
Don't make the mistake of projecting your feelings for Flight Ops (which is generally worthy) onto the rest of the company (which certainly isn't).
Can I recommend that you learn to exercise some discretion? You are obviously still young enough not to have your emotions fully in-check, which is leading you to expose yourself as a complete and utter tosser.
And do be careful who you insult and take-on while spending time on the forum, you never know when you'll be sitting beside them at work, or even sitting across the desk from them for whatever reason.
Está servira para distraerle.
After a certain amount of time spent under the tutelage of the man in the left hand seat, the buckaroo first officer will, if he has any grip on that over bloated concept known as CRM coupled with an intelligence quota of an even dinosauric level, realise that the words experience and good can mean two entirely different things in a cockpit. It is for this reason, among others, is it not, that a monitored approach at SAA is always flown by the first officer while the judgement calls are left to the man with the greater experience?
It's no disgrace for a tax payer, who is after all a partial shareholder, to criticise the national carrier of his country. Indeed, some might say it was his duty to do so. But for a mere worker within that company to expect financial compliance and emotional obedience from both the public and the tax payer, cloaked in the guise of rabid patriotic fervour reminds one of that fat little deranged fellow from Uganda, Idi Amin. He ended up in Saudi Arabia, perhaps as an air vice marshall?
Arrogance and inability to comprehend the viewpoints of others are ill bed fellows in the cockpit. The vainglorious assumption that because someone does not fly for the treasured transport company means that an application was both made and was then rejected reflects an attitude more usually found in the dunces' corner of the kindergarten.
But then perhaps there is lurking here a degree of drift down from that well known flying ace, Wing Commander Roald Dahl for did he also, in his later years, write of trolls and suchlike airborne peculiarities?
It's no disgrace for a tax payer, who is after all a partial shareholder, to criticise the national carrier of his country. Indeed, some might say it was his duty to do so. But for a mere worker within that company to expect financial compliance and emotional obedience from both the public and the tax payer, cloaked in the guise of rabid patriotic fervour reminds one of that fat little deranged fellow from Uganda, Idi Amin. He ended up in Saudi Arabia, perhaps as an air vice marshall?
Arrogance and inability to comprehend the viewpoints of others are ill bed fellows in the cockpit. The vainglorious assumption that because someone does not fly for the treasured transport company means that an application was both made and was then rejected reflects an attitude more usually found in the dunces' corner of the kindergarten.
But then perhaps there is lurking here a degree of drift down from that well known flying ace, Wing Commander Roald Dahl for did he also, in his later years, write of trolls and suchlike airborne peculiarities?
Join Date: Mar 2006
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Amazing how quickly a sensible thread is high-jacked and condescended into personal bickering and childish tirades by people who have too much time on their hands. It is imperative that SAA is not only kept solvent but competitive. Those with real solutions to the problems that have bedeviled the organisation should make presentations to the appropriate quarters or start their own airlines. Every airline has its flaws and those who have nothing but criticism towards SAA should look for somewhere else to vent their frustrations or take up a healthy sport like fly fishing or golfing.
Está servira para distraerle.
But SAA is not solvent is it and so there can be no imperative to keep it so.
No company is solvent when its financial base is funded from public funds at tax payers' expense. Pubic money is being used to bail out an organization that would be bankrupt in the private sector. If SAA could be privatised and turned into a competitive and profitable organization such as were Air France and British Airways then that might be a matter of commercial common sense. Unfortunately it would appear that this is not likely to happen so the argument continues, why should public money in a country poor in social services, be thrown at what has been called a corrupt, badly managed, uncompetitive and overpaid government department. Where is the imperative in that?
Two fun but true examples might serve. The other day in March I wished to plan to trips from Johannesburg. One was to Sydney and the other to Buenos Aires. On that day and at that particular internet time, in each case it was cheaper, although more time consuming, to fly from JNB on KLM to AMS and then on to EZE or SYD than to fly to either EZE or SYD on SAA. So long as SAA continues to provide dreadful cabin services and to blatantly price gouge, it will never be competitive with first world carriers. Those who pay their taxes in South Africa are entirely entitled to eschew fly fishing or golf and to complain bitterly. Something needs to be done quite quickly as well because once the new, British copied, national health system arrives in South Africa, the tax payer base will not be sufficiently large to support two black holes.
No company is solvent when its financial base is funded from public funds at tax payers' expense. Pubic money is being used to bail out an organization that would be bankrupt in the private sector. If SAA could be privatised and turned into a competitive and profitable organization such as were Air France and British Airways then that might be a matter of commercial common sense. Unfortunately it would appear that this is not likely to happen so the argument continues, why should public money in a country poor in social services, be thrown at what has been called a corrupt, badly managed, uncompetitive and overpaid government department. Where is the imperative in that?
Two fun but true examples might serve. The other day in March I wished to plan to trips from Johannesburg. One was to Sydney and the other to Buenos Aires. On that day and at that particular internet time, in each case it was cheaper, although more time consuming, to fly from JNB on KLM to AMS and then on to EZE or SYD than to fly to either EZE or SYD on SAA. So long as SAA continues to provide dreadful cabin services and to blatantly price gouge, it will never be competitive with first world carriers. Those who pay their taxes in South Africa are entirely entitled to eschew fly fishing or golf and to complain bitterly. Something needs to be done quite quickly as well because once the new, British copied, national health system arrives in South Africa, the tax payer base will not be sufficiently large to support two black holes.
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Jeez, get a life all of you. You must seriously have no interests if you get pulled into this thread that seems to involve a pretentious prat and a couple of nut jobs. I'm off