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UK Pilots heading to Botswana

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UK Pilots heading to Botswana

Old 9th Aug 2011, 12:53
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UK Pilots heading to Botswana

Hi guys

Are there any pilots from the UK or Ireland planning to head to Botswana hoping to get a job this year?

If you are, or if you're thinking about it, can you PM me?

Thanks
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Old 9th Aug 2011, 13:49
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If your planning on making a tv series, Please make sure its better than that last shameful attempt at making this place sound dangerous and hardcore.

"The plane must be airborne before the midday heat because the thermals can cause a light plane to crash."

Thankfully it was edited out of the video but you get my point.
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Old 10th Aug 2011, 11:42
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Hi lilflyboy

I am making a TV programme, you're right. I appreciate your concerns, I am working with the charter companies in Maun, and they will have final say on what goes into any TV programme. That will ensure everything is factually accurate. I will be straying well away from senationalist stuff. I'm not a journalist, I'm not making a current affairs programme, this is about showing the exciting flying, the beautiful scenery and wildlife, and the life that pilots have in Maun.

I'll be out in Maun in September, maybe we can talk through any concerns then.

For the moment, I'm just trying to get hold of anyone heading out from teh UK. So, any more pilots from the UK or Ireland planning to head out there? Please PM me!

Thanks
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Old 10th Aug 2011, 14:42
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Is it fair that the Botswana government should be giving validations to UK or Irish licensed pilots when there are pilots who are citizens of and licensed in South Africa, Zimbabwe, Mozambique and all other twelve members of the Southern Africa Development Community (SADC) looking for jobs flying as pilots within the community? It is also not in the interests of the SADC that companies operational in Botswana employ these foreign pilots. There should be a restrictive condition put on a foreign company being able to operate in Botswana. The life that the pilots have in Maun should reflect opportunity for its citizens not for mercenary pilots. You call it Fair Trade when you talk about bananas. The same should be good for people.
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Old 10th Aug 2011, 16:18
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Yea right.
Here we go again.

If the local pilots wanted these jobs they could have them, the fact of the matter is they think that the world owes them a job flying big jets with a fancy uniform and they are not interested in flying light aircraft in the bush.

If you want the job just go to Maun and hang around waiting for work like everyone else. If you are good enough and have the right licence you will get the work.
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Old 10th Aug 2011, 17:45
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No, I am not looking for a free meal. I am not a Pan African. I was making reference to the Australian system where professional licenses are protected by the CAA depending on the real need, that is never, to import validated pilots into Australia. I think there should be more strict controls in force to benefit all SADC pilots from all fifteen countries with no question of color or ethnic variation. There are some bad assed white pilots in South Africa and some really bad black ones in Kenya. No one wants to fly with any of them even if they are pinko on their inside. What we do not want is SADC infiltrated with British and Irish seasonal pilots when there are local guys on a career path and that is the sort of thing that should be pressured on the government and aviation authorities. I would like to see a government fact sheet outlining the benefit to the Botswana economy of charter companies at all levels and also Okavango tourism as a trade off against the ecology. That is because on a personal ecological level, I would like to see the Okavango returned to the wilderness of nature it once was like the Tanzania Selous. So you could say that I am against tourism unless it is of proven financial value to the economy at all levels and that the financial impact of it cannot be replaced as by another diamond mine.
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Old 10th Aug 2011, 20:52
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Sorry for the thread hijack but....

You have got to be kidding me right? You think that diamond mining is better than tourism?
There is only so many diamonds in the earth, when that dries up all you are left with is huge holes in the ground and a lot of people without work. Tourism is a sustainable product that employs a HUGE amount of people in Botswana.

As per the huge amount of people that are looking for work.. well I dont want to get dragged into this arguement again, but I will endulge you this one last time.

Just because there are citizens that have a licence, does not mean that they should automatically get a job. They need to be suitable in attitude, motivation, good with people, able to make good safe command decisions etc etc.
A large amount of local pilots are not willing to either travel to, or live in Maun. Some are not into flying for the job, but for the money, and it shows in their work ethics.
These companies have a business to run. Being made to fill the positions with pilots who do not want to be there is not fair on the company.
A new system is looking at being implemented on screening Botswana pilots before they get sent away to South Africa for their training. (Another huge portion of Aviation that Botswana pilots should be doing IN BOTS, but thats another arguement.) They will be interviewed first by companies by a board chaired by CAAB, the companies, and a government employee. This should help weed out the ones who are doing it for the wrong reason.
You can expect a small number of these guys to drop out, as with all CPL courses, due to multiple reasons so a need for Ex-pat pilots to fill the gaps will be needed.
Add to that unexpected departures of the current employees that wasn't planned.
Blanket banning of ex-pat pilots is only going to cause undue hardship to the operators and affect the tourism industry as a whole, possibly leading to job losses of local people in other sectors of the business.

Why only SADC nations? Why not the other nations of Africa? What makes the SADC countries so much better than them?
This short sightedness disgusts me. In Botswana there is only so many jobs that you can move onto after finishing in the GA department. Air Botswana will only take so many people and the BDF doesn't want anything to do with the civil pilots.
These guys are going to have to move onto different countries around the world if they wish to continue flying bigger and better aircraft.
Its a fact of aviation. Its a global market. You only need to look at the amount of expats that crew planes in south east asia, china, india, the middle east and most of europe.



A fact sheet. Lets look at the amount of people that are employed for the tourism sector.

The company for taking bookings from the travel agents.
Receptionist, The booking agents, cleaners, managers.
The lodge companies.
Receptionist, accountants, store workers, store managers, managers, drivers, cleaners, cooks, guides, lodge maintence, car maintence, waiters, bar staff.
The aviation company.
Operations manager, Chief pilot, Safety officer, Pilots, schedulers, ops room staff, cleaners, overnight security, porters, head porter
Misc operations.
CAAB for such large numbers of operators and aircraft. Air Traffic Controllers. Refuelers, Security, Aircraft Maintence, airport cleaners. Wildlife people. Park Maintence, animal control, vets.

Then you need to look at all the businesses that supply the lodges with food, equipment and materials, maintence of the bigger items such as washing machines.
Then all the businesses that make money from the tourists that pass through Maun. Restaurants, hotels etc etc.
Well you get the picture.

The mining companies employ far LESS people, a huge portion of those profits head overseas and only a small portion heads into government coffers and not the pockets of the local community. While the small portion of the profits that actually does reach the government coffers is not to be scoffed at, it does not reach the people that need it most.
Tourism provides far more opportunity for money to reach the people that need it than from mining operations.

Stop looking at the small picture and look at the real situation that is going on. Not what is being spun to you by people with their own agenders.
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Old 11th Aug 2011, 07:17
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I think if you go back a few years you'll find that Maun didn't even exist before the tourism & hunting arrived (turn of the last century). It is now home to over 50,000 Batswana who pretty much depend on those industries. Sure, some of this income doesn't come back to Maun, but a lot of it does & it supports the local communty.

As far as SADC pilots are concerned, there is no need for protectionism. The aviation business in the Okavango is generally transitory; pilots come and go regardless of their origin. So, there are regular vacancies for anyone who has the interest & energy to go there and meet the companies. The Botswana government is already imposing it's own form of protection by resisting issuing work permits to foreigners, regardless of country.

I'm all for a country's nationals flying that country's planes. The truth is that, even though there are more and more Batswana pilots, VERY FEW want to be in Maun. Most want to be in Air Botswana, living pretty in Gaborone. As far as those from other African countries are concerned - why not? But, I can't remember ever having seen any pilots from other African countries looking for work there.

The charter companies need pilots and the vast majority will take any that show the right qualities, regardless of race or colour. So, please, before you start all this about non-Africans working in Africa, learn a little more about the situation. Foreign pilots are not taking jobs from the locals; local pilots need only to go to Maun, have tenacity and humility, knock on a few doors and ask for work; the same as all the foreign pilots have been doing for over 20 years.

I'm from Europe and, regardless of what the press may sometimes say, it's pretty tolerant of foreigners. There are a lot more Africans living & working in Europe than Europeans living & working in Africa. Let's be a little less paranoid and let people travel & work if they want.
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Old 11th Aug 2011, 07:42
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I hear you but I listen and you makes some sense. Somewhere the colonial expansion lust is missing? But as an incidental you will find that there are a lot more Australian working as pilot in Europe, as with Ryanair, than there are European pilots who are allowed to work in Australia. Protectionism should be a double carriageway but I agree that the road lies from north to south and not the other way around.
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Old 11th Aug 2011, 08:26
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Colonial expansion lust has been missing for some time! Or are you asking why I didn't mention the colonial past? I didn't because I would like to think that we could draw a line on the past (taking on-board both the positives and negatives from it - yes, there were both) and work with the present.

As for Australia (& NZ?), I agree it is difficult getting a work permit there - even for Europeans! But they do travel a lot don't they - I think they feel a bit lonely down in the bottom right hand corner and feel the need to get out and socialise
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Old 11th Aug 2011, 18:04
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What are you on about ? Reserved jobs for SADC citizens ? That's not a country but a vague economic entity anyway . Priority to citizens of Botswana to fly in Botswana , I can sort of understand , but every other foreigner should (and I'm sure will) be treated the same way when it comes to getting a job ...like in most other places .You don't think companies are doing enough 'natio- nepotism' as it is , you want governments to get involved ! Aviation is supposed to be about travelling and making the world a more accessible place to all dude !
If people (like me BTW ) fancy working all over the world , can you please let them do what the hell they want ! If you're so desperate to get a job in Maun , why don't you go there ? We all have to pull our socks up when it comes to getting flying jobs ...don't expect someone to ring you at home with a job offer just because you are yourself and you !

Oh sorry gotta go answer my phone , must be Air France calling me to fly their new 380 They'vebeen keeping that job for me foreveeeeer !!!!
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Old 14th Aug 2011, 03:20
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I was making reference to the Australian system where professional licenses are protected by the CAA depending on the real need, that is never, to import validated pilots into Australia.
Are you on magic mushrooms or you just make this completely misinformed statement out of your backside?

Australians working for some UK/Irish airlines? Obviously, in Europe, with proper work permit, residence, right of abode, dual nationality including UK or other EU passport..

Australia not allowing foreign pilots to fly there? Bull. Sure, you have to sit the CASA CPL/IR open book air law exam, then checkride, nothing too hard. If you have right to work (via whatever means) then no big deal.
Also, wanna check the DIMA website where you can find regional migration categories that include pilots/instructors as skilled labour? Again, you talk rubbish.

Anyway, I believe you're just full of self-importance and troll.
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Old 14th Aug 2011, 18:28
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Originally Posted by vuka nkuzi
I included the SADC which now has less chance of economic collapse in its fifteen member countries than the EU.
Best line of the whole thread

From an Englishmen who flew in Zimbabwe many years ago!!!!!!!!!
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Old 15th Aug 2011, 17:29
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great post Vuka

Is it fair that the Botswana government should be giving validations to UK or Irish licensed pilots when there are pilots who are citizens of and licensed in South Africa, Zimbabwe, Mozambique and all other twelve members of the Southern Africa Development Community (SADC) looking for jobs flying as pilots within the community?
Though I hope someone from the relevant government agency will read this post, I doubt if it'll lead to any initiative. There's need for some prodding in the right direction before some of the African technocrats even react to the obvious.
Thus, I think the professional aviation communities in the AFI region as awhole should make appropriate representation to their governments with a view safeguard and ensure sustainability local skilled manpower.

Never mind the pompous, arrogant and ignorant comments of drunken morons, we all know what will happen if the tables were turned.
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Old 16th Aug 2011, 07:47
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For someone who has been spouting out about safety and professionalism in aviation, that was a pretty stupid comment.
Why would you force a company to hire some (I say some, not all) poorly trained pilots. Why not have an open board where only the best are selected?
When I say best, I don't just mean in terms of flying ability, but also being professional in terms of command decisions and actually wanting to be there for a decent amount of time and honouring contracts.

After all, it is peoples lives, and the livelyhood of the business owners that we are playing with here.
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Old 17th Aug 2011, 09:39
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"Many are destined to reason wrongly; others, not to reason at all: and others to persecute those who do reason."
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Old 18th Aug 2011, 16:18
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Yeah I'd doubt many would watch a wannbe "Deadliest Catch" with the sensationalist spin reality tv shows have.

"This week "X charter company is going to X will they make it? Will the pax survive, will the pilot go to RPT?"


Ugh
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Old 19th Aug 2011, 04:46
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Vuka, you dug real deep on Australian immigration website. Try finding the bits I was directing you to. I really don't bother dropping direct links to it to prove you wrong, not after my steak and ale.

My manners. Sure, I asked you a legitimate question, according to your statements.
I'm not the only one concluding that your ideas and opinions are kinda delusional.

Anyway, let not reality get in the way of good moan. I sometimes moan about things, too.
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Old 19th Aug 2011, 05:02
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Actually, I did bother to spend couple minutes and find the link on Australian Immigration. You know, I like proving people spouting pseudo-facts wrong.

http://www.immi.gov.au/skilled/_pdf/sol-schedule1-2.pdf

Now since I serve this on 'virtual platter', go find the PILOT as skilled migration job/qualification that can be used for regional migration. This has been in place for about year and half. Something you'd not know unless you RESEARCHED it actually instead of talking rubbish and after my post, only managing to post something very vague.
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Old 22nd Aug 2011, 03:39
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That's pretty no comment, my opinion right now, so I avoid saying it.

I don't care what you think either. I did show you that your statements earlier were NOT TRUE, i.e. FALSE. That's all.

Any further and I waste my time on someone trolling here and feeling very self-important..
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