DragRequired

Well its about time someone starts the ball rolling. If you cant get it done in reality lets have a Cyber-Union. So post all your grievances here and we will see how best we can deal with it.....

PS. I nominate OB1 as the Union Chairman. I think from his posts he is the best suited for this role. (Nuff Respect)

Oba1kanobe

I don't know if a chairman is needed quite yet. But, organization is.

Those first baby steps are:

1. LEGAL.

What documents, requirements, etc, are required of the government to form a legal union?

Obviously, a certain amount of money may be required to pay fees, filings, etc. I'd like to think that a passing of the hat should be able to raise such funds.

Then we need a name. AAPA?

Somewhere there would be a beginning group of officers, but I would hesitate to name anybody beyond online names.

A dedicated website, with pilot only anonymous forum would be prudent.

2. MISSION STATEMENT.

What would we put into a binding formal document to direct our union? The best way is probably to review other leading union bylaws to formulate our own. What do we hope to achieve with a union.

3. RATIFICATION. A vote by the pilots for adoption of said union and Bylaws.

4. CONTRACT (T&C). Negotiations with management to form a binding collective bargaining agreement. Time lines and ground rules to be adopted for completion of negotiations. Items to include, but not be limited to:

a. Seniority (including provisions / sanctions for staff work)
b. Payments, uniformly and on-time (Emirates pays every pilot the same for the seat they occupy)
c. Rosters (28 day posting, sanctions for non-compliance, premium pays for changes)
d. Business travel in Business Class (Every time these clowns say "Emirates of Africa", we can remind them that Emirates CA's fly FIRST CLASS, and FO's fly BUSINESS CLASS.)
e. Sanctions for lack of company compliance, up to and including strike.

5. VOTE. After adoption of a contract by the leaders of the union of pilots, and the company representatives who are able to legally bind the company into an agreement (part of the ground rules), then a vote to adopt said agreement shall be made by every eligible pilot on the seniority list.

Should the company not be able to agree to a contract in the agreed upon time lines, or ground rules, then the pilots MUST show the company that it means business. The only thing any company understands at this point is a strike.

And this, my dear colleagues, is what will separate the men from the boys. Everything up to this point would have been play time. There will be those of us who will not wish to join us. Collectively, we must use ALL our powers to persuade these colleagues of ours to the majority point of view.

That's my thoughts for now. Time for a beer.

DragRequired

See guys...I know I had good reason to nominate this most noble Knight for the post. We await further instructions.

Fun aside in the early days at Arik we used to pay into a fund for a pilots association (Union) 10,000 per month. Dont know where that money went too. It was towards some sort of residual union from Nigerian Airways. I did not know much about it. If AJ gets word of this he will surely send out the Drones.

JABAG

Hey guys, you dont need to re-invent the wheel. You already have NAAPE which is still active. All you need to do is set up the ARIK chapter and have it recognized. This can be done by a ballot of current pilots and signing on to the National Body. If you did contribute, you need to make sure this was paid into the National Body. If so then all you need to do is demand for your rights. The National president is quite active.

All the best, but note, we are our own best enemies.


JABAG

Gidigba

The only NAAPE chapter alive and kicking is in oranjatail,this union has been able to fight against all forms of management persecutions and oppressions,They have been able to checkmate management from undeserved paycuts et al,The union is very effective and encompasses both the fixed and rotary wing pilots and engineers,You will definitely have fifth columnists in your system but you will overcome them,management will throw all sorts at you guys but you must be strong;Some of your pilots/engineers will be your greatest enemies as always,A strong union always starts like a joke,but you have a common problem;BREAD,maybe this will help propel you;All the talk in da world would not help if theres no action,The management desires inaction,You guys owe urselves ACTION,It has been seen that Aj and his cronies hate bad press and lie to kingdom come to refute true stories which is termed truelies,This payment story has never been read in the National Dailies the way the papers went to town with Oranjatail stories,Oranjatail salaries have never been more than 5days late and the Aviation world including PPrune gave OT up for donefor,Heaven Helps those who are UNITED to help themselves

Mr. Smith

Good idea. Speaking with one voice.

Oba1kanobe

First, start asking your fellow pilots what name they would want for a future pilot group. Make sure that people you speak with will go ask other pilots until all the pilots have had a chance to voice their opinion on a name.

Just a name. Nothing more. Report back in a few days.

Oba1kanobe

Let me expand on a few of the thoughts, one at a time, as we frame an outline of a proposed contract:

a. Seniority (including provisions / sanctions for staff work)

1. Provisions to specify who is a pilot - Anybody who was hired by the company for flying duties, or subsequently is assigned flying duties after joining the company. That person must also hold the applicable pilot license, etc.

2. What day does seniority begin? Now, do we want this to start at hire date? Or when released to fly the line? Some other date?

3. Provisions for voluntary breaks in service (short term)

4. Provisions for return to the company after a break in service (long term)

5. Provisions for involuntary breaks in service (sacked, medical lapse, suspension over XX days/months, etc)

6. Provisions for staff time, not flying - this to me is a bonafide break in service. If you volunteered / bid to perform a non-flying post, you also forfeit some seniority. All, or some formula thereof, lost.

7. Provisions for staff time, flying- I would say that provided the staff pilot flies XX hours in the time period (6-12 month look back maybe?).

8. Provisions for pilots in "post holder" positions: CP, DFO, MD, etc. Let's say Jason Holt came back as a A340 captain tomorrow. Do we count any of his time as MD? I would say no, because even though he flew, he was not hired to be a pilot. Plus, he would not have met whatever provisions might be established for a 6-12 month lookback.

DragRequired

How about NAPALM....

New Arik Pilots Association Lagos Monitored


But on a serious note guys lets get some feedback.!!!

Napalm : Gasoline (Pilots) which is thickened using chemical additive (Union) Napalm B (Proper Union) Main Advantage is that its ignition can be well-controlled.( Strike, go-slow, etc) This was a great advantage to the soldiers, airmen, and sailors using it.....lol

Oba1kanobe

Clever name. Just not professional.


Thinking backwards from 10-12 months in the future, and the likely result of trying to have fair, good faith bargaining with Arik.... EACH PILOT NEEDS TO BEGIN THEIR OWN STRIKE FUND.

It should be at least one month of salary. If you start now with 10% of your current salary, and place it in a separate account, you'll have that in the prescribed time.

This does not mean the goal is to strike. Much like the "MAD" (Mutual Assured Destruction) from the cold war, when you have the tools to get the job done, the other side (in this case, the company) tends to take you seriously, and the tools never need be deployed. But, you must be ready. Our MAD deterrent is a mentally and financially prepared pilot group.

There are many levels of actions prior to reaching a strike. Just a simple press conference from "Arik Air Pilot Association" stating our grievances would be a great start. Editorial writings. Picketing.

In a country where customers have a choice, any of the above will have some level of pain inflicted upon the company.

So, from the pilot group, we need a name and the self determination to begin a strike fund.

DragRequired

I second that motion 1000%.

OB1

RE: "MAD" (Mutual Assured Destruction) I see we enjoy watching the same types of TV programs...lol.

Oba1kanobe

Technology News: Tech Buzz: The Most Powerful Labor Union in the World: Linux?

Delta Pilots Association - Home

Oba1kanobe

i don't think this will be a good direction for two reasons. First, we have little need to organize the engineers, who are largely contract employees with Iberia and Lufthansa.

Secondly, it looks as if there are cracks in the armor at NAAPE:

" Nigeria was formerly a member of IFALPA under the National Association of Aircraft Pilots & Engineers (NAAPE); however, they have lapsed in paying their subscriptions and keeping in contact with us and sadly they were suspended at Conference this year."

Another option would be to contract with ALPA in the USA. I think the answer with the most control and autonomy is AAPA. How's that name poll going?

Short term needs:

1. Name needed
2. Get those strike funds going
3. Activists to come forward
4. Benefactors needed
5. Website organized based on above

DragRequired

Well done OB1. Keep the good ideas rolling. BALPA (UK) might also be a good Union to look to for assistance.

1. Name should not be that hard to deliver
2. I am sure that anybody who has been working at Arik for more then 12 months has at least 2-3 months salary tucked away safely somewhere.
3. Getting "Activists" to come forward might be tricky. (for now at least)
4. All pilots should contribute to a monthly fund based on a percentage of their salary. (Like 1% gross or N10,000 which ever is greater)
5. We need someone to help make a proper website so that the pilots can be encouraged to visit the Union ( be it virtual) and voice their concerns. I have no idea how to get a website built.

I am baffled as to why we are not getting any response from all the Arik pilots viewing this thread. ????? But yet in the flight deck they will talk and talk for hours.

Can anyone out there build a website or knows someone who can ?

JABAG

OB1,

I understand your concerns regarding NAAPE, however we should look at this as long term. As mentioned earlier, only the orange tail seams to be getting the most out of the union. You want to link with an international body, hence you imply we are not capable or handling this ourselves. Yes there are just a few Nigerian Tech crew, I would hope the idea would be to encourage this sectors of the aviation industry. If you are unable to have a body speaking for this group, you end up with national tech crew that are still fittters, no B1 or B2 ratings in 10 years.

This will be a big shame.

Lets all come in as one to improve this industry. The potential is there.

rgds,

JABAG

Oba1kanobe

Ok, I'll look into that also.

I will continue to use AAPA until / if something better comes along.

Probably, and wisely so. It has to be said, however.

There's never a good time to stick your neck out. But leaders lead. There's no need to identify themselves on here. We will get a private forum for that hopefully.

That seems like a good goal. Let's get a group actually organized before we ask to collect "dues". Donations, however, would be awesome. I have an account already set up that may be usable for this. I think I may donate $N50,000 seed money to set up the web site. I hope there are those who will follow my lead and step up.

I see very little value in a virtual union. Just another place to complain. The goal should be, and must be, to accomplish something for all. What's important to pilots worldwide? Seniority? Pay? Roster? Benefits?

Don't know. It's only been 48 hours. If you're reading this, please ask a fellow pilot for their thoughts as to a name, and if they would like to become a benefactor by donating some money to get a website together.

I'm multi-talented. I can do this, and have already begun the initial leg work to arrange for a web site with a private forum. Obviously, I'll need a name before I can get too far along.

Oba1kanobe

I'm not completely convinced that Arik Air has much of a chance for long term viability. But, sure, something that can be built on... just in case!

I don't imply anything. We wisely will look at what the world has to offer, and select any and all that may aid us. An international, multi-continent airline should have an equal level of pilot union.

My focus is on pilots. I would prefer not to divulge far from that basic core in the near term. If we become so wildly successful as a union, the engineers will come to us for representation. If we're a failure, it won't matter.

Your points are well taken.

Oba1kanobe

Thanks to all who have contacted me on this subject.

The name will be:

Arik Air Pilots Association

DragRequired

Funny how this thread has gone dead....evn before anything positive was achived....just goes to show most pilots are for themselves only.

I guess its the end of this quest.

Vortex Thing

Not entirely sure that it is a case of pilots being "only for themselves". It is more a case of the demographic.

When all of this was, "Let's get the pitchforks and torches" talk was going on Arik was treating us all like sh1t and had been for some time.

Now most of the expats and even some of the locals have seen the error of Arik's ways and have voted with their feet.

The market is now so good that being at Arik is a choice. Something which is a bit of a novelty to those who suffered at the hands of the incompetent Arik management for some time.

Previously the only expats who remained at Arik are those who were so low houred that they could not get another job. Now the market is so good that major flag carriers like Malaysian, Garuda, Jetstar Pacific, will take 200-500hrs on type and some even less than 1000hrs TT.

Even the most new expat FOs have now had 12-18months at Arik are are therefore well past this.

Basically this means that only those who either enjoy the poor management, really want the time off at home regardless of career progression or those who just cannot be bothered to commute from the far east remain. (Excepting the FOs who are hanging in their hoping for command) As for the captains well the few expats who remain are there are there for their convenience.

Now if some one wants to start a group called Former Inmates of Camp Arik Air, Arik Air Veterans Assoc or African Survivors Assoc then that is a different matter.

One good thing that has happened at Arik is that most of the expats got out with just a bad experience which with the management in place is a lucky escape.

For those remaining please PM me if you need steers to agencies or jobs if you want out of Arik. Whatever you did in this life or another no one deserves to have to work with people like the deposed CP VE and his knowledgeable cronies and hangar ons.

If anyone is interested in a sweepstake as to when Arik will cease trading then post here if there is enough interest then we could start a new thread.

VT