Payday at Arik Air
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If you hate Arik so much why are you still sticking around there huh
it is only so long before you go from being part of the solution to being part of the problem. I am no longer happy where I am so I have decided to leave. I dont want to become bitter and angry. Perhaps you should do the same.
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"Dude",
Much of what I'm saying is just fact. Surely, my conjecture is liberally dispersed, and you are free to interpret anything you like out of that, "Dude".
Why not debate the points made here, instead of offering nothing but glib rubbish ?
As to big brother! Please! Nothing to fear.
Management is far too busy putting out self induced fires to worry about anonymous pilots spouting off on the internet. They know the facts all too well, as do the pilots. Nothing earth shattering here. No trade secrets given up. You can read much of this in the daily rags for a few naira.
So, "Dude", let me ask why you would bother to read here. You sound like an intellectual visionary. Perhaps you should jot a quick note to management on how they should proceed. My observations will become moot. A new day will dawn. And a new thread started, "Arik Paid On Time"!!!!
Until then, let's discuss the facts as we know them. If that doesn't meet your pleasure, might I suggest reading another thread? The
first step to grossly improve moral here is to pay salaries on time.
Pilots, to some lesser degree, won't feel like they're on a sinking ship. Maybe they won't sneak out as soon as their late salaries arrive?
Hopefully, a few potential new pilots have read this (at over 40,000 hits, I'll guess management is too) and were able to make an educated decision as to employment at Arik. I think that's the best objective that could be had.
Much of what I'm saying is just fact. Surely, my conjecture is liberally dispersed, and you are free to interpret anything you like out of that, "Dude".
Why not debate the points made here, instead of offering nothing but glib rubbish ?
As to big brother! Please! Nothing to fear.
Management is far too busy putting out self induced fires to worry about anonymous pilots spouting off on the internet. They know the facts all too well, as do the pilots. Nothing earth shattering here. No trade secrets given up. You can read much of this in the daily rags for a few naira. So, "Dude", let me ask why you would bother to read here. You sound like an intellectual visionary. Perhaps you should jot a quick note to management on how they should proceed. My observations will become moot. A new day will dawn. And a new thread started, "Arik Paid On Time"!!!!
Until then, let's discuss the facts as we know them. If that doesn't meet your pleasure, might I suggest reading another thread? The
first step to grossly improve moral here is to pay salaries on time.
Pilots, to some lesser degree, won't feel like they're on a sinking ship. Maybe they won't sneak out as soon as their late salaries arrive?
Hopefully, a few potential new pilots have read this (at over 40,000 hits, I'll guess management is too) and were able to make an educated decision as to employment at Arik. I think that's the best objective that could be had.
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even with all d doom & gloom facts stated so far in this thread, Arik Air is sponsoring pilots for 737 TR and i duuno any newbie who will refuse to be sponsored for a free TR. I'm assuming they are gona be bonded. when they get back, are they allowed to leave if salaries aint paid on time? does late salaries constitute a breach of contract on Arik's part? does late salaries render the bond null & void? just curious
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yogibear and gpu connected,
I do not see anything wrong in what Oba1kanobe is sharing on this thread. In as much as he has not made any false disclosures or misinformation. Being a Nigerian pilot, and having worked in Nigeria, I would like to see Arik and indeed Nigerian aviation grow. The only way this can be made possible is to share information to all aviation stakeholders, be it Arik, pax, regulators, operators and aviation personel. When Arik or any other aviation entity does good, she should be praised such as was the case in her early days. And when they do bad, they should be condenmed as is the case now. Anything short of this, is diservice and does not do Arik any good in my view.
I do not see anything wrong in what Oba1kanobe is sharing on this thread. In as much as he has not made any false disclosures or misinformation. Being a Nigerian pilot, and having worked in Nigeria, I would like to see Arik and indeed Nigerian aviation grow. The only way this can be made possible is to share information to all aviation stakeholders, be it Arik, pax, regulators, operators and aviation personel. When Arik or any other aviation entity does good, she should be praised such as was the case in her early days. And when they do bad, they should be condenmed as is the case now. Anything short of this, is diservice and does not do Arik any good in my view.
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What Oba and others post on the thread is entirely up to them,
same as all present I joined this thread to get more information on what is going on out there. I however was curious to know why he continued to stay in a place he seems to really not be happy with. There must be some sort of benefit if not he would have left a long time ago whether it be hours, pay, time off etc. These are the things that would help me and other pilots make a decision and that is why I asked why he was still there.
same as all present I joined this thread to get more information on what is going on out there. I however was curious to know why he continued to stay in a place he seems to really not be happy with. There must be some sort of benefit if not he would have left a long time ago whether it be hours, pay, time off etc. These are the things that would help me and other pilots make a decision and that is why I asked why he was still there.
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gpu, you must be ungrateful, you can't be chastising the bloke who provides you with info on-demand. If you don't want his info, don't read his posts, if you want it, then use it.
Moreso, i feel like Oba1 makes this thread tick, he's been very upfront, go Oba1kanobe!
But if you or anyone else wants to know the real reason Oba1 is stuck with Arik, then PM him, i'm sure he would gladly open up a bit or nothing to you.
Moreso, i feel like Oba1 makes this thread tick, he's been very upfront, go Oba1kanobe!
But if you or anyone else wants to know the real reason Oba1 is stuck with Arik, then PM him, i'm sure he would gladly open up a bit or nothing to you.
Last edited by NaijaNinja; 19th Sep 2010 at 02:28.
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This is not a thread about Oba1 of Arik-land. It's primarily about late pay cheques.
But, in fairness, I'll try and make observations as to why others leave and stay.
Obviously, for indigenous pilots who want to work at home, there aren't a lot of choices. The entire spectrum of Nigerian aviation has its issues, with a few glimmers of hope. It would seem that the entire airline could be staffed with indigenous pilots, since they are available 12 months a year. But reality gets in the way.
Arik needs expats to operate today, and probably for a long time, if it remains in business that long. Even government owned Nigerian Airways had expats. I don't think that's what you're looking for, so enough of that.
For expats; the rotation roster is better than many places, but only because they have to. It was pointed out recently by senior management that, "successful airlines don't have rotations. Arik must because it has too". In a nutshell, expats wouldn't come here without a rotation (like they do for Emirates), and Arik needs expats (as does Emirates, and many other airlines around the world).
Whether the roster is 4/4, or 8/4, most pilots are reasonably OK with either. Sure, 4/4 (or more accurately 30/30) is good, but the A330 crews already have 15/15. It must, however, be pointed out that every combination of rotation have pilots leaving. Message to management: ROTATION SCHEMES ALONE WON'T KEEP PILOTS!
PAY: the bad things. I'll spare you a dissertation, when you've already read through the thread. One additional point I'll offer is that the top management was told recently that the pilots had to be paid ON TIME to keep them from leaving. The response was perhaps to pay an extra $200 each month as a sort of "late fee", and continue to pay whenever they felt like it to the bad Arik Pilots (B737, CRJ, Q400, HS25). They don't get it. Next message to management: PAY ON TIME!
PAY: the good things. If you're a Global Express or A330 pilot, you will be paid on time. Every HiFly pilot, of course, is paid on time by their company. In addition, Global and Hifly pilots enjoy business class travel. For whatever bizarre reason, the rest (B737, CRJ, Q400, HS25) sit in the cattle section. Dear management: MAKE BUSINESS TRAVEL EXACTLY THAT; IN BUSINESS CLASS FOR ALL.
Some people stay to get those last hours in the log to get their ATPL, or minimums to apply to Emirates or Turkish. So, no matter how bad it is, even if they're not getting paid, they will stay until that magical day arrives with a job offer elsewhere.
The equipment is generally VERY good. Maintenance is also VERY good.
Some people are redundant / furloughed and will work anywhere that will pay until they can move on. I guess that makes this airline good for them.
Some have been promised, or believe, that they will be upgraded / moved to larger aircraft. That hasn't proven to be a practical belief, but pilots will hang onto to any glimmer of hope. And every airline management knows to say "big airplane" every time there's a pilot issue.
Some need the money. We actually have a TINY percentage of pilots who left another pilot job that paid lower money. It happens.
And some, perhaps, couldn't get a job any where else. Surely, there are those whose background is dubious.
So, there you have it.
But, in fairness, I'll try and make observations as to why others leave and stay.
Obviously, for indigenous pilots who want to work at home, there aren't a lot of choices. The entire spectrum of Nigerian aviation has its issues, with a few glimmers of hope. It would seem that the entire airline could be staffed with indigenous pilots, since they are available 12 months a year. But reality gets in the way.
Arik needs expats to operate today, and probably for a long time, if it remains in business that long. Even government owned Nigerian Airways had expats. I don't think that's what you're looking for, so enough of that.
For expats; the rotation roster is better than many places, but only because they have to. It was pointed out recently by senior management that, "successful airlines don't have rotations. Arik must because it has too". In a nutshell, expats wouldn't come here without a rotation (like they do for Emirates), and Arik needs expats (as does Emirates, and many other airlines around the world).
Whether the roster is 4/4, or 8/4, most pilots are reasonably OK with either. Sure, 4/4 (or more accurately 30/30) is good, but the A330 crews already have 15/15. It must, however, be pointed out that every combination of rotation have pilots leaving. Message to management: ROTATION SCHEMES ALONE WON'T KEEP PILOTS!
PAY: the bad things. I'll spare you a dissertation, when you've already read through the thread. One additional point I'll offer is that the top management was told recently that the pilots had to be paid ON TIME to keep them from leaving. The response was perhaps to pay an extra $200 each month as a sort of "late fee", and continue to pay whenever they felt like it to the bad Arik Pilots (B737, CRJ, Q400, HS25). They don't get it. Next message to management: PAY ON TIME!
PAY: the good things. If you're a Global Express or A330 pilot, you will be paid on time. Every HiFly pilot, of course, is paid on time by their company. In addition, Global and Hifly pilots enjoy business class travel. For whatever bizarre reason, the rest (B737, CRJ, Q400, HS25) sit in the cattle section. Dear management: MAKE BUSINESS TRAVEL EXACTLY THAT; IN BUSINESS CLASS FOR ALL.
Some people stay to get those last hours in the log to get their ATPL, or minimums to apply to Emirates or Turkish. So, no matter how bad it is, even if they're not getting paid, they will stay until that magical day arrives with a job offer elsewhere.
The equipment is generally VERY good. Maintenance is also VERY good.
Some people are redundant / furloughed and will work anywhere that will pay until they can move on. I guess that makes this airline good for them.
Some have been promised, or believe, that they will be upgraded / moved to larger aircraft. That hasn't proven to be a practical belief, but pilots will hang onto to any glimmer of hope. And every airline management knows to say "big airplane" every time there's a pilot issue.
Some need the money. We actually have a TINY percentage of pilots who left another pilot job that paid lower money. It happens.
And some, perhaps, couldn't get a job any where else. Surely, there are those whose background is dubious.
So, there you have it.
Last edited by Oba1kanobe; 19th Sep 2010 at 03:31.
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late pay vs no pay
I have a slightly different take on why pilots are leaving. I think it has to do with two major issues. First, late pay sometimes means missed house payments, car payments, etc. with resultant late fees and hits on your credit rating. Arik has not offered to pay these fees even tho Arik is responsible for causing them.
Second, and primarily, when a company does not pay on time, there is a serious concern that they may never pay. If you are concerned you may be working for free, there is ample motivation to go get another job!
Pay showed up about 17 days late this month. That is about average over the last 18 months. Even still, 14 pilots left this month despite the promise of a 30/30 rotation. I think they left because they are very concerned that Arik will just stop paying.
I for one, will not pay any expenses out of pocket. I will not buy a ticket to come to work. I will not buy a ticket to go to training. I will not go to training or on night stop without per diem in my pocket. I will not be left holding the bag hoping Arik will reimburse me. No way.
And yes, after the fiasco in July, I began actively searching for another job.
Second, and primarily, when a company does not pay on time, there is a serious concern that they may never pay. If you are concerned you may be working for free, there is ample motivation to go get another job!
Pay showed up about 17 days late this month. That is about average over the last 18 months. Even still, 14 pilots left this month despite the promise of a 30/30 rotation. I think they left because they are very concerned that Arik will just stop paying.
I for one, will not pay any expenses out of pocket. I will not buy a ticket to come to work. I will not buy a ticket to go to training. I will not go to training or on night stop without per diem in my pocket. I will not be left holding the bag hoping Arik will reimburse me. No way.
And yes, after the fiasco in July, I began actively searching for another job.
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I'll try and keep future comments specific to pilot's issues at Arik, and more specifically the timely pay issue. Whether the airline can afford to put tyres on planes really doesn't matter to us specifically.
You'll note the genius in the token $200 "late fee" offer. When they pay you late, let's say the 20th of the month, for work performed the previous month, and you quit immediately after, they've gotten 20 days of work for free (they'll never pay for the 20 worked days) and they didn't have to buy you a plane ticket home. Win, Win.
The fact that is costs about $35,000 to bring in a new pilot is lost in those savings, but management of money has never been a strong point at Arik. It's easy to mismanage other people's money.
Also, I've got to come up with a way to differentiate between the pilot groups, who are treated so very differently.
Arik Pilots who get paid late, ride in coach, get the low end of the hotel offerings, have the longest rotations, get paid a common, lower pay, and operate the B737, CRJ, Q400, HS25 will be referred to as: 7CQH pilots
If you're a Global Express, A330 pilot, and contract HiFly pilots, who will be paid on time, ride business class, and get the best hotels, superior rotation and rostering, and highest pay, you will be referred to as: GAHF pilots
Note: it was previously reported that the contract with HiFly was extended one year, but that's not quite the case. The contract for the first A340 expires this Dec 2010, and has been extended "month to month". The same for the second A340, which expires in March 2011.
Finally, the pilot group needs a union. Badly. HiFly gets paid on time because as a group of pilots, they are 100% unified by their boss that they absolutely will not work past a missed payday. Thoughts to the organization of a union would be appreciated. I suspect the pay issue will never be seriously addressed until such time as there is a unified voice to stop work without pay.
You'll note the genius in the token $200 "late fee" offer. When they pay you late, let's say the 20th of the month, for work performed the previous month, and you quit immediately after, they've gotten 20 days of work for free (they'll never pay for the 20 worked days) and they didn't have to buy you a plane ticket home. Win, Win.
The fact that is costs about $35,000 to bring in a new pilot is lost in those savings, but management of money has never been a strong point at Arik. It's easy to mismanage other people's money.
Also, I've got to come up with a way to differentiate between the pilot groups, who are treated so very differently.
Arik Pilots who get paid late, ride in coach, get the low end of the hotel offerings, have the longest rotations, get paid a common, lower pay, and operate the B737, CRJ, Q400, HS25 will be referred to as: 7CQH pilots
If you're a Global Express, A330 pilot, and contract HiFly pilots, who will be paid on time, ride business class, and get the best hotels, superior rotation and rostering, and highest pay, you will be referred to as: GAHF pilots
Note: it was previously reported that the contract with HiFly was extended one year, but that's not quite the case. The contract for the first A340 expires this Dec 2010, and has been extended "month to month". The same for the second A340, which expires in March 2011.
Finally, the pilot group needs a union. Badly. HiFly gets paid on time because as a group of pilots, they are 100% unified by their boss that they absolutely will not work past a missed payday. Thoughts to the organization of a union would be appreciated. I suspect the pay issue will never be seriously addressed until such time as there is a unified voice to stop work without pay.
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Saw this on another site (edited):
1. Since long time a DHC-8-400 is stored in Toronto (YZD) (not paid for, never delivered).
2. There are 3 Boeing 737-700s stored in Southend (SEN) [5N-MJC, 5N-MJI and 5N-MJJ]
3. I heard that the new delivered A330-200 [5N-EIA] was returned to the lessor.
I have not heard this last rumour #3. It wouldn't surprise me. But, to my knowledge, it's still flying, until Arik defaults on another debt.
1. Since long time a DHC-8-400 is stored in Toronto (YZD) (not paid for, never delivered).
2. There are 3 Boeing 737-700s stored in Southend (SEN) [5N-MJC, 5N-MJI and 5N-MJJ]
3. I heard that the new delivered A330-200 [5N-EIA] was returned to the lessor.
I have not heard this last rumour #3. It wouldn't surprise me. But, to my knowledge, it's still flying, until Arik defaults on another debt.
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Hi All
I heard today on the radio out of Lagos that Arik have a new fuel planning policy. A 737-700 requested final level of 110, to which even the controller quized as why too so low, the relpy was that the aircraft had MEL restrictions because of lack of ice protection.
Well I am pretty sure that the fuel burn of a 737 at FL110 must be pretty high and the comfort of pax bumping around the inversion layer would have been fantastic I am sure.
What an outfit. Good luck chaps.
I heard today on the radio out of Lagos that Arik have a new fuel planning policy. A 737-700 requested final level of 110, to which even the controller quized as why too so low, the relpy was that the aircraft had MEL restrictions because of lack of ice protection.
Well I am pretty sure that the fuel burn of a 737 at FL110 must be pretty high and the comfort of pax bumping around the inversion layer would have been fantastic I am sure.
What an outfit. Good luck chaps.
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The only NAAPE chapter alive and kicking is in oranjatail,this union has been able to fight against all forms of management persecutions and oppressions,They have been able to checkmate management from undeserved paycuts et al,The union is very effective and encompasses both the fixed and rotary wing pilots and engineers,You will definitely have fifth columnists in your system but you will overcome them,management will throw all sorts at you guys but you must be strong;Some of your pilots/engineers will be your greatest enemies as always,A strong union always starts like a joke,but you have a common problem;BREAD,maybe this will help propel you;All the talk in da world would not help if theres no action,The management desires inaction,You guys owe urselves ACTION,It has been seen that Aj and his cronies hate bad press and lie to kingdom come to refute true stories which is termed truelies,This payment story has never been read in the National Dailies the way the papers went to town with Oranjatail stories,Oranjatail salaries have never been more than 5days late and the Aviation world including PPRuNe gave OT up for donefor,Heaven Helps those who are UNITED to help themselves
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Time for Action !!!!
http://www.pprune.org/african-aviati...on-thread.html
Hey guys lets take this to the next level. Time for action, no more useless bitching in the flight deck. To follow up on the post by Gidigba click on the link and post your views.
To stop the sniper style shooting down of fellow pilots. Time for some Napalm......no more messing around. ARIK AIR PILOTS we need this joint action NOW ...!!!!!
Napalm : Gasoline (Pilots) which is thickened using chemical additive (Union) Napalm B (Proper Union) Main Advantage is that its ignition can be well-controlled.( Strike, go-slow, etc) This was a great advantage to the soldiers, airmen, and sailors using it.....lol
B737 NG Firsts Officers- 6 months, Canada, Nov 10 start - 1400961387 - Flight Jobs
Hey guys lets take this to the next level. Time for action, no more useless bitching in the flight deck. To follow up on the post by Gidigba click on the link and post your views.
To stop the sniper style shooting down of fellow pilots. Time for some Napalm......no more messing around. ARIK AIR PILOTS we need this joint action NOW ...!!!!!
Napalm : Gasoline (Pilots) which is thickened using chemical additive (Union) Napalm B (Proper Union) Main Advantage is that its ignition can be well-controlled.( Strike, go-slow, etc) This was a great advantage to the soldiers, airmen, and sailors using it.....lol
B737 NG Firsts Officers- 6 months, Canada, Nov 10 start - 1400961387 - Flight Jobs
Last edited by DragRequired; 21st Sep 2010 at 11:00.
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So Sad Arik
By all accounts, a sad place to work.
Some are trying to form a pilots' union but seemingly few are interested.
All probably busy sending out cvs.
And counting down to the next payday.
How long can this outfit realistically continue to operate?
The writing has been on the wall for quite a long time it seems!
Some are trying to form a pilots' union but seemingly few are interested.
All probably busy sending out cvs.
And counting down to the next payday.
How long can this outfit realistically continue to operate?
The writing has been on the wall for quite a long time it seems!
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3Days is too long, keep it alive
What's going on Oba1? Three days and no posting on one of the most interesting thread to have been on this forum in a long while.
Fair enough, the union issue is being pursued on a new thread, but hey, this is the real deal.
Keep it alive!
Fair enough, the union issue is being pursued on a new thread, but hey, this is the real deal.
Keep it alive!