Beech 1900 with the cargo door open!
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you guys crack me up...
The bleeds are turned on at 400'agl along with setting climb power.
The cargo door annunciator was defected the day before but unsure if it was staying on or not comming on, either way the crew had knowledge of this. The cargo door ANNUNCIATOR is deferrable under the co's DDPG (MEL).
The a/c IS always flown pressurised unless defected, the a/c has never to my knowledge pressurised while on the ground, relating to said co's a/c. Eagle always under 99% of situations carries out bleeds off engine anti ice on takeoffs.
The maint that is done by the company is first rate, the support from the co to crew is also just that.
The rest is speculation untill the TAIC investigation is complete.
To the idiot that made the comment about the crew not noticing a MW Flasher and the annunciator, kind of indicates that you have little time in an a/c that has these, and who on here would depart knowing there was an issue, unless it was cleared with maint and/or via the MEL. If you did then that would be operating a co a/c outside the SOP's and grounds for dismissal.
The bleeds are turned on at 400'agl along with setting climb power.
The cargo door annunciator was defected the day before but unsure if it was staying on or not comming on, either way the crew had knowledge of this. The cargo door ANNUNCIATOR is deferrable under the co's DDPG (MEL).
The a/c IS always flown pressurised unless defected, the a/c has never to my knowledge pressurised while on the ground, relating to said co's a/c. Eagle always under 99% of situations carries out bleeds off engine anti ice on takeoffs.
The maint that is done by the company is first rate, the support from the co to crew is also just that.
The rest is speculation untill the TAIC investigation is complete.
To the idiot that made the comment about the crew not noticing a MW Flasher and the annunciator, kind of indicates that you have little time in an a/c that has these, and who on here would depart knowing there was an issue, unless it was cleared with maint and/or via the MEL. If you did then that would be operating a co a/c outside the SOP's and grounds for dismissal.
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Before or after V1
The only thing that has any relevance is if the door popped before V1 or after. Then its an easy decision.
Big red light before V1- reject
Big red light after V1- carry on and come back and land.
Seemingly the latter option happened, and they came back to an uneventful landing.
Well done I say!
Big red light before V1- reject
Big red light after V1- carry on and come back and land.
Seemingly the latter option happened, and they came back to an uneventful landing.
Well done I say!
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If the cargo door annunciator system was u/s and deferred by the MEL, what were the conditions? I.E. Does it say on the MEL perhaps that if the system is U/S then the pilot/pilots must verify it is closed by looking through the viewing window and confirming that the orange arrow lines up with the line?
Not sure what our MEL states, but would imagine that it wouldn't just be a case of dispatch as a Cat C item for example, without another way to verify the door was in deed closed.
As I've said, there is a lesson to be learnt here, and am looking forward to reading the incident report when it is released.
Is it possible that this was one of the ground personnel's error?
Not sure what our MEL states, but would imagine that it wouldn't just be a case of dispatch as a Cat C item for example, without another way to verify the door was in deed closed.
As I've said, there is a lesson to be learnt here, and am looking forward to reading the incident report when it is released.
Is it possible that this was one of the ground personnel's error?
Last edited by EladElap; 30th Apr 2010 at 14:14.
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The bleeds are turned on at 400'agl along with setting climb power.
The cargo door annunciator was defected the day before but unsure if it was staying on or not comming on, either way the crew had knowledge of this. The cargo door ANNUNCIATOR is deferrable under the co's DDPG (MEL).
The cargo door annunciator was defected the day before but unsure if it was staying on or not comming on, either way the crew had knowledge of this. The cargo door ANNUNCIATOR is deferrable under the co's DDPG (MEL).
Always Inverted, i'm glad you cleared that up for everyone. I was about to post what you posted then saw your comment.
I don't fly for Eagle (not even in NZ at the moment) but I do know both of the pilots. Anyone calling their professionalism or ability into question is way off the mark. Both are good solid operators.
As has already been said, Eagle are a professional outfit with very high standards.
Join Date: Apr 2007
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The only thing that has any relevance is if the door popped before V1 or after. Then its an easy decision.
Big red light before V1- reject
Big red light after V1- carry on and come back and land.
Big red light before V1- reject
Big red light after V1- carry on and come back and land.
compulsory stop after 80 kts / before V1:
-oil pressure low annunciator
-engine fire
-engine failure
-possible collision
Any other "big red light" does not necessarily call for an abort.
Accident history shows, that more accidents happen due to rejected T/O than due to a GO decision.
Pilots of slightly heavier a/c know, that beyond certain speeds, the ground is not your friend anymore.
A red light in the cockpit doesn't mean, you have to stop, it's not a traffic light. A red (= warning) light alerts the crew to a situation that might require immediate action - that is all.
I myself had to take off more than once with "big red lights" flashing, in all cases the Go-decision has been the right one.
Even though the cargo door is part of the fuselage structure (so is a cabin window), it will not come off if the a/c is flown at circuit speeds.
The proof is in the pud: the said a/c landed back safely.
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Airline SOPs state:
Unless those SOPs are Eagles then it is, I fear to say, quite irrelevant what any other SOPs may say.
Even though the cargo door is part of the fuselage structure (so is a cabin window), it will not come off if the a/c is flown at circuit speeds.
How do you know that? For instance....
Is there an Abnormal or Emergency drill for flying a circuit with the door open at or below a certain speed. What would be, if any, the effect of flap selection on an open door and also--how far open?
The proof is in the pud: the said a/c landed back safely.
That is a big red light of a non sequitur I am afraid to say.
Just to clear up two things. I have never flown the B1900 and I am not a hero.
Unless those SOPs are Eagles then it is, I fear to say, quite irrelevant what any other SOPs may say.
Even though the cargo door is part of the fuselage structure (so is a cabin window), it will not come off if the a/c is flown at circuit speeds.
How do you know that? For instance....
Is there an Abnormal or Emergency drill for flying a circuit with the door open at or below a certain speed. What would be, if any, the effect of flap selection on an open door and also--how far open?
The proof is in the pud: the said a/c landed back safely.
That is a big red light of a non sequitur I am afraid to say.
Just to clear up two things. I have never flown the B1900 and I am not a hero.
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Unless those SOPs are Eagles then it is, I fear to say, quite irrelevant what any other SOPs may say.
All very hypothetical anyway, if the warning annunciator has been inop and the crew didn't know, what was happening.
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(since SOPs have to be at least as restrictive, if not more than the manufacturer's limitations, it shows that the B1900 is not considered to be un-flyable with a cargo door open.)
I do not believe that the statement is correct.
It would be more correct I think to say that the limitations incorporated into an operator's Standard Operating Procedure (and agreed and approved with the relevant CAA) must be no less limiting than those imposed by the manufacturer for the purposes of certification.
and the conclusion? I do not think it really works.
I do not believe that the statement is correct.
It would be more correct I think to say that the limitations incorporated into an operator's Standard Operating Procedure (and agreed and approved with the relevant CAA) must be no less limiting than those imposed by the manufacturer for the purposes of certification.
and the conclusion? I do not think it really works.
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If it was a system failure then fair enough. This to me smacks of complacency. When you secure the door, there is a little clear circle viewing hole to check that the door has locked. Even if it's partially locked it wouldn't have popped open until the aircraft pressurized. I was shown pictures of this, and the door is wide open just after rotation.
Assume nothing. If you get in the habit of assuming things, then when you get into an emergency situation you will not allow yourself to consider all options because you will have already figured out what the problem is and be blind to what the real problem might have been.
And in the case of this incident, don't assume that a person did their job.
