SAA looking for pilots?
snosrap
In this "Asian garbage heap" I fly with two ex SAA pilots and a number of other South Africans. So I have a reasonable idea of what's going on. The reasons they are over here and not at home are, as I have stated, career progression and fear for the safety and future of their families.
If you are already a widebody Captain in SAA and on a good income you aren't worried about progression and can afford to live in a gated community. I was thinking more about those joining at the bottom.
For the South Africans coming here, it's a bit of an adjustment getting used to being able to walk around the streets at night in safety ,and being able to stop at traffic lights without having the car doors locked and the windows wound up. Most of them soon get used to it though.
Enough of them over for a shop selling SA food to open up as well. I'm quite fond of their rusks and ProNutro.
In this "Asian garbage heap" I fly with two ex SAA pilots and a number of other South Africans. So I have a reasonable idea of what's going on. The reasons they are over here and not at home are, as I have stated, career progression and fear for the safety and future of their families.
If you are already a widebody Captain in SAA and on a good income you aren't worried about progression and can afford to live in a gated community. I was thinking more about those joining at the bottom.
For the South Africans coming here, it's a bit of an adjustment getting used to being able to walk around the streets at night in safety ,and being able to stop at traffic lights without having the car doors locked and the windows wound up. Most of them soon get used to it though.
Enough of them over for a shop selling SA food to open up as well. I'm quite fond of their rusks and ProNutro.
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Metroman
So, your response is purely based on hearsay?!? Sure those guys might have had some experiences, but you also mention the "fear" they have and therefore the reason they left ... if they are there because of fear it does not mean that it acutally IS like that here now!! Yes, SAA has it's affirmative plan and is implimented - we all know that - but your statement is rather far fetched!
You're trying to argue with guys that ARE in South Africa and some ARE flying for SAA - quite happy too...
for example: I can also tell you of at least 10 pilots I know that started at SAA and have climbed the ladder successfully. (pale/male so to speak as mentioned above)
Yours is a matter of opinion - not fact! I would also not say that 2 out of a few hundred gives you a "reasonable idea".
So, your response is purely based on hearsay?!? Sure those guys might have had some experiences, but you also mention the "fear" they have and therefore the reason they left ... if they are there because of fear it does not mean that it acutally IS like that here now!! Yes, SAA has it's affirmative plan and is implimented - we all know that - but your statement is rather far fetched!
You're trying to argue with guys that ARE in South Africa and some ARE flying for SAA - quite happy too...
for example: I can also tell you of at least 10 pilots I know that started at SAA and have climbed the ladder successfully. (pale/male so to speak as mentioned above)
Yours is a matter of opinion - not fact! I would also not say that 2 out of a few hundred gives you a "reasonable idea".
Do you seriously think SAA would hire a white male unless they absolutely had to ? Sure some have been employed, but only because they couldn't find anyone else at the time.
If a white male finds himself at one of these windows of opportunity obviously he should grab it, I know I would.
The ex SAA pilots here speak highly of the operational standards, and you get a rating on a modern jet. Pay and benefits were good. Captains had an excellent lifestyle. The SA pilots I have flown with are good operators and a pleasure to work with.
But, do you want your career progression to be based on there being no minorities available to promote rather than seniority and merit ? Those joining now with young families have a different outlook to a senior Captain nearing retirement. To stay or leave is a personal decision only you can make based on your circumstances and future predictions, which may be completely different to someone elses.
BTW. This is from someone who remembers when a Zim$ was worth more than a Rand and ZW$20 was the largest denomination note available. A 100 trillion dollar note has just been released, buys twenty loves of bread IF you can find a shop selling it, probably even less now as prices double every day.
If a white male finds himself at one of these windows of opportunity obviously he should grab it, I know I would.
The ex SAA pilots here speak highly of the operational standards, and you get a rating on a modern jet. Pay and benefits were good. Captains had an excellent lifestyle. The SA pilots I have flown with are good operators and a pleasure to work with.
But, do you want your career progression to be based on there being no minorities available to promote rather than seniority and merit ? Those joining now with young families have a different outlook to a senior Captain nearing retirement. To stay or leave is a personal decision only you can make based on your circumstances and future predictions, which may be completely different to someone elses.
BTW. This is from someone who remembers when a Zim$ was worth more than a Rand and ZW$20 was the largest denomination note available. A 100 trillion dollar note has just been released, buys twenty loves of bread IF you can find a shop selling it, probably even less now as prices double every day.
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What a load of crap. It's been years since accelerated command was last applied and thast was for a handfull of losers. There were even black males who turned it down because they had some pride.
AA applies to the selection process only. Once you are in seniority applies. SAA is for South Africans. You will not be a foreign contract worker who has a job on the whim of a Arab ( I hear $40 a barrel is hurting when you have 50+ A380's on order) or Chinese masters (B-Scales, Oasis).
AA applies to the selection process only. Once you are in seniority applies. SAA is for South Africans. You will not be a foreign contract worker who has a job on the whim of a Arab ( I hear $40 a barrel is hurting when you have 50+ A380's on order) or Chinese masters (B-Scales, Oasis).
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divinehover
What a load of bollocks! We're all at the mercy of the individuals who control the oil, I see that SAA made huge amounts of profit during the high oil price. If one decides not to live in SA due AA, security or for any other reason, let it be, at the end of the day they'll probably be able to retire anywhere in the world and not just be stuck in SA.
AA is not only applicable to the SAA selection, it is a yardstick by which you are measured in SA, what about your kids future. I'm sure you'll be one of those who goes on "contract', just to boost the pension a little
What a load of bollocks! We're all at the mercy of the individuals who control the oil, I see that SAA made huge amounts of profit during the high oil price. If one decides not to live in SA due AA, security or for any other reason, let it be, at the end of the day they'll probably be able to retire anywhere in the world and not just be stuck in SA.
AA is not only applicable to the SAA selection, it is a yardstick by which you are measured in SA, what about your kids future. I'm sure you'll be one of those who goes on "contract', just to boost the pension a little
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I see that SAA made huge amounts of profit during the high oil price.
I found this little gem this morning. Gives those in the SA airline industry something to think about.
http://www.careers24.com/TalentSurvey/results.htm
See how your airline salary stacks up against the average in SA.
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Pro-Nutro not like it used to be.
METROMAN.
You are not going to win this argument and you know it....rather just sit back, have a beer and enjoy your freedom.
I work for a similar minded company as SAA so know exactly what you are talking about and agree 100% with you.
I am unfortunately on the wrong side of the time scale to move, but admire the guys that have decided, enough is enough and moved up the ladder, whether it is in SA or over the yonders.
Goffel.
You are not going to win this argument and you know it....rather just sit back, have a beer and enjoy your freedom.
I work for a similar minded company as SAA so know exactly what you are talking about and agree 100% with you.
I am unfortunately on the wrong side of the time scale to move, but admire the guys that have decided, enough is enough and moved up the ladder, whether it is in SA or over the yonders.
Goffel.
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Official website
SAA
Click here to download the First Officer Application forms
But Click here return "Not Found"
Any idea?
And Is SAA hiring now for which type of?
Best Regards!
SAA
Click here to download the First Officer Application forms
But Click here return "Not Found"
Any idea?
And Is SAA hiring now for which type of?
Best Regards!
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Hi Metro man
It's sad that you feel the need to discredit a company that is very good to its pilots. The fact that you continue harping on the topic of crime in SA, merely indicates your attempt in justifying your decision to take on the very difficult and frustrating life of an expat.
I know from first hand experience that the selection and recruitment process at SAA is extremely fair and equitable, ranking amongst the best in the world. Just ask some of the so called PDI's who were not successful, and are still flying as captains at other airlines in South Africa. Indicating, all who apply are on a level playing field when they enter that interview room. It's easy to simply write off a failed interview to discriminatory and racist policies, rather then looking at yourself, and your own shortcomings.
It would be appreciated if you did your research before shooting your mouth off. It makes the life of an expat appear very unattractive to others.
I know from first hand experience that the selection and recruitment process at SAA is extremely fair and equitable, ranking amongst the best in the world. Just ask some of the so called PDI's who were not successful, and are still flying as captains at other airlines in South Africa. Indicating, all who apply are on a level playing field when they enter that interview room. It's easy to simply write off a failed interview to discriminatory and racist policies, rather then looking at yourself, and your own shortcomings.
It would be appreciated if you did your research before shooting your mouth off. It makes the life of an expat appear very unattractive to others.
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Robot wrote:
[QUOTE]I know from first hand experience that the selection and recruitment process at SAA is extremely fair and equitable, ranking amongst the best in the world.[/QUOTE
You must surely be smoking some of that parrot salad that they found at Heathrow!
A world class airline will at least give you a "yes" or "no" once you have completed the interview process! How many blokes have had 3, 4 or 5 interviews spaced over years and years? World class? Eh, no.
W2
[QUOTE]I know from first hand experience that the selection and recruitment process at SAA is extremely fair and equitable, ranking amongst the best in the world.[/QUOTE
You must surely be smoking some of that parrot salad that they found at Heathrow!
A world class airline will at least give you a "yes" or "no" once you have completed the interview process! How many blokes have had 3, 4 or 5 interviews spaced over years and years? World class? Eh, no.
W2
Guys, I didn't say don't join SAA, nor did I say anything against the operational standards of the company. I simply advised the thread starter to be realistic about what it would mean to be a white male in the company long term.
If I was 20 years younger and had the chance I would jump at it, type rating 2000 hrs on medium jets, off to Cathay or the sandpit.
If I was 20 years older and a senior captain at SAA I would probably stay there, good pay and benefits. Only a few years to retirement, why start again ?
Life as an expat suits me it may not suit you. I left Africa 15 years ago and am quite happy with my decision. Yes there are a few trade offs, but the aircraft are excellent, pay is good, agreeable lifestyle and I don't worry about my familys safety while I'm at work or what sort of a life awaits my children when they grow up.
I chose not to gamble my future staying on in Zimbabwe, anyone think I would be better off if I was there now ?
Of course SA could never get to that level now could it.
If I was 20 years younger and had the chance I would jump at it, type rating 2000 hrs on medium jets, off to Cathay or the sandpit.
If I was 20 years older and a senior captain at SAA I would probably stay there, good pay and benefits. Only a few years to retirement, why start again ?
Life as an expat suits me it may not suit you. I left Africa 15 years ago and am quite happy with my decision. Yes there are a few trade offs, but the aircraft are excellent, pay is good, agreeable lifestyle and I don't worry about my familys safety while I'm at work or what sort of a life awaits my children when they grow up.
I chose not to gamble my future staying on in Zimbabwe, anyone think I would be better off if I was there now ?
Of course SA could never get to that level now could it.
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I doubt anybody can tell you for sure - SAA seems a little 'random'. I've seen some excellent guys with really top class experience not even get called, and then some relatively low time guys get in, no problems (perhaps leading to the distrust in the selection process that may be apparent every so often). So I guess you should try at least.
Their application process seems like blatant 'hoop-jumping', that's for sure. There's no online application. As mentioned above, the only link to anything that might help simply doesn't work, you need to have a friend who's got a copy of the excel spreadsheet. Then, once you have that, you need to fill it in in it's entirety EVERY SINGLE TIME, which involves multiple certified copies of everything. That's if you're doing things by the book - maybe all that is unnecessary, who knows. Certainly not SAA. It's just not that professional looking, and as I said, there's certainly no guarantee that this irritating right of passage will even get you any results. Those in the know may have some better suggestions.
Their application process seems like blatant 'hoop-jumping', that's for sure. There's no online application. As mentioned above, the only link to anything that might help simply doesn't work, you need to have a friend who's got a copy of the excel spreadsheet. Then, once you have that, you need to fill it in in it's entirety EVERY SINGLE TIME, which involves multiple certified copies of everything. That's if you're doing things by the book - maybe all that is unnecessary, who knows. Certainly not SAA. It's just not that professional looking, and as I said, there's certainly no guarantee that this irritating right of passage will even get you any results. Those in the know may have some better suggestions.
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Say what you want about Springbok, it is the best job in RSA.
For those who want to live there, it works. There's something for everybody, from the short and long haul rosters. You can be back home every night or you can be gone for several days and do your month's flying in two trips.
I have my application in, hoping to be called.
GW
For those who want to live there, it works. There's something for everybody, from the short and long haul rosters. You can be back home every night or you can be gone for several days and do your month's flying in two trips.
I have my application in, hoping to be called.
GW
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SAA looking for pilots?
Called their HR office last week and was told ALL pilot recrutment on hold, and that is why the application form has been removed from the web site. Also heard that the selection board for this month has been cancelled. One of my SAA mates showed me a memo from their boss that things do not look too good for expansion due to the world slow down. Have has my application in for more than a year and still holding thumbs, but am sure my age is against me !!!!!! Need to get home, but looks like I am here for a little while longer.
TT
TT
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A little bit of truth never hurt anyone
1. SAA does not lower its entry standards for anyone. Be they PDI, AA, DG or in HDTV colour. Does SAA look for and want pilots of colour? Hello!!! Of course they do, they're owned by the government. BUT- The pilots that are taken all meet minimum standards and have to be able to pass the selection process including a simulator check ride.
There was a period a few years back when pilot selection was taken away from flight ops and HR and a certain jakkals over-rode the decisions of the selection board and employed some marginal pilots. All of those who were selected against the wishes of flight ops have now been fired for lack of performance or have left by mutual agreement.
The simple truth is that SAA takes the best candidates they can in the following order (like any orginisation in SA surely?) (oh ja its the law!)
Designated group (black, coloured, indian)
PDI (white females)
White males
WHy do "pale males" have to have higher hours than other pilots. They don't! The white males competing with each other to get in have more experience and higher hours than the the first 2 groups. Therefor a wite male with 2000 hours is not going to get in because there are 20 guys with 3000 to 4000 hours ahead of him.
All DG and PDI pilots meet the basic requirements to fulfil the position and have to pass the selection process. Once in SAA they have to make the same grade as anyone else and there is no bypassing.
Will a 3000 hour white male be overlooked for a 2000 hour DG candidate? Most probably and in all likelihood, yes. Just like the rest of industry and business in SA. If a DG candidate is capable and qualified he gets the job. Thats what living in SA means and if you don't like it or can't deal with that then leave. If you have left then great- I hope you are happy and wealthy and content with your choice. I don't criticise, judge or second guess you. Please allow me the same courtesy.
2. Now that that nonsense is over with back to the original question. SAA is not hiring at this stage, just like everyone else in the world. The pilots leaving slowed to a trickle after the restructuring was successfully dealt with last year and the world economy went down the crapper. There will be some retirements this year and next (10-15 total?) but the word in the flight ops builiding is that no new hires will be made to fill these positions until the economy and therefore the flying picks up. SAA's flying is probably about 10% down from where it was this time last year.
There was a period a few years back when pilot selection was taken away from flight ops and HR and a certain jakkals over-rode the decisions of the selection board and employed some marginal pilots. All of those who were selected against the wishes of flight ops have now been fired for lack of performance or have left by mutual agreement.
The simple truth is that SAA takes the best candidates they can in the following order (like any orginisation in SA surely?) (oh ja its the law!)
Designated group (black, coloured, indian)
PDI (white females)
White males
WHy do "pale males" have to have higher hours than other pilots. They don't! The white males competing with each other to get in have more experience and higher hours than the the first 2 groups. Therefor a wite male with 2000 hours is not going to get in because there are 20 guys with 3000 to 4000 hours ahead of him.
All DG and PDI pilots meet the basic requirements to fulfil the position and have to pass the selection process. Once in SAA they have to make the same grade as anyone else and there is no bypassing.
Will a 3000 hour white male be overlooked for a 2000 hour DG candidate? Most probably and in all likelihood, yes. Just like the rest of industry and business in SA. If a DG candidate is capable and qualified he gets the job. Thats what living in SA means and if you don't like it or can't deal with that then leave. If you have left then great- I hope you are happy and wealthy and content with your choice. I don't criticise, judge or second guess you. Please allow me the same courtesy.
2. Now that that nonsense is over with back to the original question. SAA is not hiring at this stage, just like everyone else in the world. The pilots leaving slowed to a trickle after the restructuring was successfully dealt with last year and the world economy went down the crapper. There will be some retirements this year and next (10-15 total?) but the word in the flight ops builiding is that no new hires will be made to fill these positions until the economy and therefore the flying picks up. SAA's flying is probably about 10% down from where it was this time last year.
