Crazy Kenya ' Regulations '
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didn't the kenyans try to butcher each other not too long ago... Dont see any western influence there...
As for the "previously disadvantaged" continuously blaming the Europeans for there problems... How bout you just sit for a moment and imagine how far behind Africa would be today, if the Europeans had never brought all their early inventions with them... They certainly would not be better off than they are right now...
As for the "previously disadvantaged" continuously blaming the Europeans for there problems... How bout you just sit for a moment and imagine how far behind Africa would be today, if the Europeans had never brought all their early inventions with them... They certainly would not be better off than they are right now...
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Mr sawaya ,
Thankyou for yet another polite greeting .
Get a life ? I have had a wonderful life thankyou very much , of which Kenya played a huge part , sorry to disappoint you . I expect that your need to spit in my face about Lenana School means that your life is not so good that you have to lash out like this.
I was given information , including news clippings , that formed the basis of my view that Lenana had been closed. I am sorry if that is false info , but can you not try and get it over a little more politely ? CRM must be a complete mystery to you and your ilk.
Frankly , I am sick of you and your cronies , continuing to drag Kenyas reputation through the mud by your actions and comments. No respect for a mzee .Thank God I know that the Kenyans I care about are not like you people .
My life is fine , how is yours ?
Thankyou for yet another polite greeting .
Get a life ? I have had a wonderful life thankyou very much , of which Kenya played a huge part , sorry to disappoint you . I expect that your need to spit in my face about Lenana School means that your life is not so good that you have to lash out like this.
I was given information , including news clippings , that formed the basis of my view that Lenana had been closed. I am sorry if that is false info , but can you not try and get it over a little more politely ? CRM must be a complete mystery to you and your ilk.
Frankly , I am sick of you and your cronies , continuing to drag Kenyas reputation through the mud by your actions and comments. No respect for a mzee .Thank God I know that the Kenyans I care about are not like you people .
My life is fine , how is yours ?
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You guys are out of control. Your aggression is unbridled and serves only to diminish the already tarnished image of Kenyan aviation. You really need to take a step back. Sawaya, where do you get off with a reply like that? Whats wrong with you? Get yourselves in check or can we please hear from some of the more moderate Kenyan instead.I've got a fun idea! Instead of humiliating yourself on Pprune, why don't you learn about punctuation? Try it!
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Quote: ".....we don't need you"
Kindly adopt the same approach to the foreign aid that your country accepts and that is paid for by our taxes! Quit blaming all the failings of yourselves and your country on the colonialism that ended nearly half a century ago (and which left your country with great infrastructure, finances, etc) and start taking responsibility for yourselves and your country. Your country is not exempt from the old saying: "A nation gets the government it deserves." (Note that these comments apply to most countries in Africa.)
Kindly adopt the same approach to the foreign aid that your country accepts and that is paid for by our taxes! Quit blaming all the failings of yourselves and your country on the colonialism that ended nearly half a century ago (and which left your country with great infrastructure, finances, etc) and start taking responsibility for yourselves and your country. Your country is not exempt from the old saying: "A nation gets the government it deserves." (Note that these comments apply to most countries in Africa.)
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Getting the point now.
Most of Africa is now worse of than it was at the time the dreaded colonials left this place to its people. This will continue as long as they want their own for the job rather than some one who is qualified.
Unfortunately this not only exists in politics, but in aviation too.
sihjui
Unfortunately this not only exists in politics, but in aviation too.
sihjuiJoin Date: Apr 1999
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Don't you just love PPRuNe
At the risk of being cr@##ed on by 2 or 3 different continents, the thread started about the new rules...I think we managed about 2 posts relating to them
There are tough times ahead for the operators here as we are hit with a "one size fits all" book of rules that the authority is not even vaguely capable of policing because they can't understand their own rules
Good luck to all and safari njema
After the state the world is in we should leave the race/religion card on vacation for a bit n"est pas mes amis
At the risk of being cr@##ed on by 2 or 3 different continents, the thread started about the new rules...I think we managed about 2 posts relating to them
There are tough times ahead for the operators here as we are hit with a "one size fits all" book of rules that the authority is not even vaguely capable of policing because they can't understand their own rules
Good luck to all and safari njema
After the state the world is in we should leave the race/religion card on vacation for a bit n"est pas mes amis
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No respect for a mzee
Respect them? Why?
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Kenya...
I spent about three years in South Africa teaching the Kenyan Airways cadets most of whom progressed straight onto the B738. Without exception I found them to be amongst the most well adjusted and mature African students I have met. They understood the dynamics of their countries politics and shared a collective concern about it. They are very much the future of Kenyan aviation and I hope that one day they will be in positions where they can effect good changes to the system and perhaps allow it to become a model for the rest of Africa.
Heaven only knows we need a drastic improvement in Africa's standing in the global aviation community. It does not enjoy the greatest of reputations though there are isolated examples of hope; sadly given its significance, South Africa is not one of them.
Heaven only knows we need a drastic improvement in Africa's standing in the global aviation community. It does not enjoy the greatest of reputations though there are isolated examples of hope; sadly given its significance, South Africa is not one of them.
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Kenya
Hope all you "foreign devils" will forgive us for what has been said so far in this thread. We absolutely do need you, white, yellow, black or otherwise, because it is you that fuels the growth of Kenyan aviation.
Please take the remarks of some people on this thread with a "satchet of the catering co. salt" - they know aswell as I do that "all Kenyan/kenyans only" aviation scene is nonsense, a racist pipe dream will never happen.
PS - thankfully I was around when we still did Cambridge O'level English
Please take the remarks of some people on this thread with a "satchet of the catering co. salt" - they know aswell as I do that "all Kenyan/kenyans only" aviation scene is nonsense, a racist pipe dream will never happen.
PS - thankfully I was around when we still did Cambridge O'level English
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Thanks Coleman for your balanced view . Sadly , the reality is that there is no common sense in Kenya aviation , only xenophobia and greed . If you care to search back through pprune ( don't bother ) the last few years you will find that I was led to believe that I could help KQ through a bottleneck doing the line-training that I do on NG-800s . I applied , expecting / hoping for a 2 year contract , no schooling etc required , only the same pay as a local Captain ( which by the way is very generous by Kenyan standards ) ,I had accom sorted , happy to provide my own transport etc , because to me it would have been a pleasure to return to my 'formative' country , enjoy its charms , and end my flying days where I had begun . A 2 year contract ( which would have ended by now ) was a dream , but I was to be denied by the union . If Kenyan flying jobs had been at stake I could have understood , but my role was to improve the flow of them through the system and then quietly disappear . Sadly , no common sense.
Still , I only wish the best for Kenya Aviation and KQ , life is too short to be bitter . Perhaps some of the recalcitrants that despoil these worthy forums would do well to take that on board. But I doubt it !
Take care and fly safe
KK
Still , I only wish the best for Kenya Aviation and KQ , life is too short to be bitter . Perhaps some of the recalcitrants that despoil these worthy forums would do well to take that on board. But I doubt it !
Take care and fly safe
KK
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What about a bit of sense and a bit less nonsense.
The new KCARs and UCARs and TzCARs are here to stay because the governments are signatories to the Chicago Convention and are obliged to follow ICAO Standards (by law, in Uganda).
The problem is not the regs in themselves -which in any case are here to stay. The problems are:
1) the CAAs have not filed differences to take into account local conditions - look at the aerodrome regs. This is because the CAAs (wrongly) believe that filing differences is a measure of failure and they are very proud that they have not filed differences.
2) the interpretation of the new regs. In Uganda we are tackling the CAA on personnel licencing, but the CAA view has been that while the new regs (a copy and paste from FARs) are highly permissive, the CAA actually intends blithely to continue applying the old (micro-management) regs. The UCAA have little option but to follow FAA interpretations, but are loathe so to do.
The new regs (if adhered to) clearly spell doom for light aviation in EA. So we can either fight our corner or cry in our beer. If we want to fight then we have to address 1 and 2 by challenging bad interpretations of the law and by pushing for differences (on aerodromes, for instance) where the wider public interest may be at stake.
(It is interesting that the KCARs were allowed through in the public interest.)
In Uganda we have started to engage the CAA and our position is that the regs belong to both operators and regulators and that the regulators do not have the final voice by a long way. We have found parts of the CAA that are hostile to our approach, but other regulators who understand what we are trying to do and are sympathetic.
And there is a cultural (no, not black/white, or even African, sorry) problem that the CAAs need to address - the philosophy driving the ICAO model regs is that operators must regulate themselves and their staff, and CAAs are to concentrate on policing the operators, whereas the old British model regulations called for the CAAs to micro-manage every last detail. It will take some time for this new philosophy or culture to take root.
Maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea to drop all the crapulous racist nonsense and work together to do something positive.
The new KCARs and UCARs and TzCARs are here to stay because the governments are signatories to the Chicago Convention and are obliged to follow ICAO Standards (by law, in Uganda).
The problem is not the regs in themselves -which in any case are here to stay. The problems are:
1) the CAAs have not filed differences to take into account local conditions - look at the aerodrome regs. This is because the CAAs (wrongly) believe that filing differences is a measure of failure and they are very proud that they have not filed differences.
2) the interpretation of the new regs. In Uganda we are tackling the CAA on personnel licencing, but the CAA view has been that while the new regs (a copy and paste from FARs) are highly permissive, the CAA actually intends blithely to continue applying the old (micro-management) regs. The UCAA have little option but to follow FAA interpretations, but are loathe so to do.
The new regs (if adhered to) clearly spell doom for light aviation in EA. So we can either fight our corner or cry in our beer. If we want to fight then we have to address 1 and 2 by challenging bad interpretations of the law and by pushing for differences (on aerodromes, for instance) where the wider public interest may be at stake.
(It is interesting that the KCARs were allowed through in the public interest.)
In Uganda we have started to engage the CAA and our position is that the regs belong to both operators and regulators and that the regulators do not have the final voice by a long way. We have found parts of the CAA that are hostile to our approach, but other regulators who understand what we are trying to do and are sympathetic.
And there is a cultural (no, not black/white, or even African, sorry) problem that the CAAs need to address - the philosophy driving the ICAO model regs is that operators must regulate themselves and their staff, and CAAs are to concentrate on policing the operators, whereas the old British model regulations called for the CAAs to micro-manage every last detail. It will take some time for this new philosophy or culture to take root.
Maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea to drop all the crapulous racist nonsense and work together to do something positive.
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Thanks Barnacle Bill , at last some measured reasoning from someone actually involved in East African light aviation . Good luck with the 'struggle'.
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Disappointed
its just so disappointing after reading through all the african forum blogs that there is nothing constructive being discussed other than everyone insulting each other. no wonder africa is the way it is with such mentalities.
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mzee Kotakota since you started this thread..what is your main concern/disagreement with the new regulations?? i dint quite get it...maybe all the sideshows derailed my mind.
am atc so i just dont get it when aviators say the regulations will kill GA in East Africa...please explain...barnacleBill
please no more collonialist/racism/post-election drama...can we just get along and move on
am atc so i just dont get it when aviators say the regulations will kill GA in East Africa...please explain...barnacleBill
please no more collonialist/racism/post-election drama...can we just get along and move on
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Sorry ATCO 749 , been a bit busy but copied below is part of the latest Aero Club of East Africa newsletter for you to get some small idea of what the regs mean ie treat everyone the same from KQ to the smallest 1 light aircraft
operator , and every dirt strip the same as Nairobi International Airport ( JKIA ).
---------------------------------------------------------------
Reports from the field indicate that, so far, KCAA inspectors have not "swooped down" on aircraft operators in Kenya to enforce the new contentious Kenya Civil Aviation Regulations. (KCARS). Depite the fact that a few dozen of the regulations are virtually impossible to adhere to in an aviation environment like Kenya, where 80% of flying is done into ill-equipped "bush strips", KCAA has so far not harassed anybody or even closed down operators who are every day transgressing the new law. It would appear that, either KCAA does not actually have the enforcement capacity to implement its ill-conceived rules, or it is now happy that at least on paper Kenya has met the ICAO SARPS and procedures. It remains to be seen if this "honeymoon" will last or whether KCAA will eventually produce the army of inspectors that is required if it is serious about implementing its new rules.
Some examples of KCARs that are injurious to operators of aircraft and airfields are:
1. All airfields (even the most basic bush runway) must be "fenced", have a "Security Plan", an "Airport Manager", a "Security Committee", etc. All that of course also applies not only to private airstrips, but also to Government runways in the outback. Most operators do not believe that the Government (Kenya Wildlife Service, town councils, villages, Kenya Police, etc.) will ever be able to adhere to its own rules, leave alone the missions, camps, farmers, etc. out there who have landing strips that may be used once or twice a month. It is also a question whether the KCAA actually knows where most of these remote airstrips are located. The private sector knows that there are at least 600 airstrips in Kenya, but the official AIP only shows about 350. KCAA will have to do a lot of flying and driving around to find the rest.
2. Each airstrip, according to the regulations, must undergo an 'annual inspection'. It is doubtful that KCAA has the capacity (vehicles, inspectors, aircraft) to actually do that.
3. Commercial aircraft are required to fly only into airfields that are adequately equipped, manned, have 'security' in place, are able to offer the latest weather information, etc. It is doubtful that Kenya can actually provide such facilities, but insurance companies are likely to fall back on the latest law in case of a claim.
There are many other requirements that will affect operators and adherence will drive up the cost of operating aircraft. Examples: Two Crew operations under some conditions on even small Cessna Caravans, reduction in the number of passengers that can be carried, new expensive equipment requirements such as TCAS and Ground Proximity Warning Systems, etc., etc.
It does indeed appear that Kenyan General Avioation has been sacrificed on the altar of the FAA and ICAO.
---------------
Hope this helps those who wonder what I have been wittering on about.
KK
operator , and every dirt strip the same as Nairobi International Airport ( JKIA ).
---------------------------------------------------------------
Reports from the field indicate that, so far, KCAA inspectors have not "swooped down" on aircraft operators in Kenya to enforce the new contentious Kenya Civil Aviation Regulations. (KCARS). Depite the fact that a few dozen of the regulations are virtually impossible to adhere to in an aviation environment like Kenya, where 80% of flying is done into ill-equipped "bush strips", KCAA has so far not harassed anybody or even closed down operators who are every day transgressing the new law. It would appear that, either KCAA does not actually have the enforcement capacity to implement its ill-conceived rules, or it is now happy that at least on paper Kenya has met the ICAO SARPS and procedures. It remains to be seen if this "honeymoon" will last or whether KCAA will eventually produce the army of inspectors that is required if it is serious about implementing its new rules.
Some examples of KCARs that are injurious to operators of aircraft and airfields are:
1. All airfields (even the most basic bush runway) must be "fenced", have a "Security Plan", an "Airport Manager", a "Security Committee", etc. All that of course also applies not only to private airstrips, but also to Government runways in the outback. Most operators do not believe that the Government (Kenya Wildlife Service, town councils, villages, Kenya Police, etc.) will ever be able to adhere to its own rules, leave alone the missions, camps, farmers, etc. out there who have landing strips that may be used once or twice a month. It is also a question whether the KCAA actually knows where most of these remote airstrips are located. The private sector knows that there are at least 600 airstrips in Kenya, but the official AIP only shows about 350. KCAA will have to do a lot of flying and driving around to find the rest.
2. Each airstrip, according to the regulations, must undergo an 'annual inspection'. It is doubtful that KCAA has the capacity (vehicles, inspectors, aircraft) to actually do that.
3. Commercial aircraft are required to fly only into airfields that are adequately equipped, manned, have 'security' in place, are able to offer the latest weather information, etc. It is doubtful that Kenya can actually provide such facilities, but insurance companies are likely to fall back on the latest law in case of a claim.
There are many other requirements that will affect operators and adherence will drive up the cost of operating aircraft. Examples: Two Crew operations under some conditions on even small Cessna Caravans, reduction in the number of passengers that can be carried, new expensive equipment requirements such as TCAS and Ground Proximity Warning Systems, etc., etc.
It does indeed appear that Kenyan General Avioation has been sacrificed on the altar of the FAA and ICAO.
---------------
Hope this helps those who wonder what I have been wittering on about.
KK