Emirates - a threat for SA Airlines??
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Sandpit
Age: 55
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Emirates - a threat for SA Airlines??
Emirates gets another 38 frequencies into SA 
I have heard that they can use those frequencies to fly to other destinations ie. Dubai - Joburg - Lusaka and then return on the same route.
Does anyone know if this is true and if it is, how will Nationwide and Comair (who is planning flights to the UK) going to do. SAA and all our local Airlines will be in the poo.
They wouldn't apply for those extra frequencies unless they had a specific plan.
I have heard that they can use those frequencies to fly to other destinations ie. Dubai - Joburg - Lusaka and then return on the same route.
Does anyone know if this is true and if it is, how will Nationwide and Comair (who is planning flights to the UK) going to do. SAA and all our local Airlines will be in the poo.
They wouldn't apply for those extra frequencies unless they had a specific plan.
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: sand pit
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
All the SA airlines are going to be int he sh1t. Apparently they are going to be allowed to do domestic flights for the 2010 world cup. Some politicians must have got serious bribes for this decision.
But according to AV8tor this is the global economy.
But according to AV8tor this is the global economy.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Sandpit
Age: 55
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Will be interesting to see how the detractors of SAA and Gov't sponsorship respond when other local SA Airlines are directly affected by a foreign carrier that is subsidised by Gov't money.
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: RSA
Posts: 287
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Taperlok there is no way in hell Emirates will get approval
to fly locally in SA. Ever heard of a little law by ICAO called
Cabotage?Look it up son.
I sense a troll who knows jack about aviation
to fly locally in SA. Ever heard of a little law by ICAO called
Cabotage?Look it up son.
I sense a troll who knows jack about aviation
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: In the hold
Posts: 182
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
At least Emirates is making money for their Tax Payers / Government. If S.A.A. could do the same they would be welcome to 100% of my tax money. It is government’s job to increase the government’s coffers by any means. Unfortunately in true African style we have forgot what the word govern mean.
S.A.A. / Africa's biggest threat is itself
S.A.A. / Africa's biggest threat is itself
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: In the hold
Posts: 182
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Putt For Dough
Does their status as “official carrier” not entitle them to certain routes under a “charter operation”? I don’t know, but they would not spend money if there is no return.
Drive For Show.
P.S. I see you are from the U.K. Don't know if you are familiar with the African way of doing things.... just look at the latest debacle re: the Minister of Health!!
Does their status as “official carrier” not entitle them to certain routes under a “charter operation”? I don’t know, but they would not spend money if there is no return.
Drive For Show.
P.S. I see you are from the U.K. Don't know if you are familiar with the African way of doing things.... just look at the latest debacle re: the Minister of Health!!
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: South Africa
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think the most immediate and damaging effect Emirates is having on local airlines at present is, the rapid employment of pilots.
I don't think SA airlines can keep up with training new crews to replace pilots leaving to earn real money.
I foresee a big crew shortage in the near future - not for lack of qualified pilots, but for the lack of resources to train replacements.
This will affect all the airlines, Comair, NTW, 1Time and EVEN SAA!!!
Rumour has it that 120 SAA pilots got interviews at the recent Emirates roadshow. How will you ever train enough replacements to fill that gap? I do of course realise that not all 120 will leave at the same time, but considering the fact that it takes on average 3 months to train a pilot to qualify him/her to fly on line - it will be a tall order I must say!!
I don't think SA airlines can keep up with training new crews to replace pilots leaving to earn real money.
I foresee a big crew shortage in the near future - not for lack of qualified pilots, but for the lack of resources to train replacements.
This will affect all the airlines, Comair, NTW, 1Time and EVEN SAA!!!
Rumour has it that 120 SAA pilots got interviews at the recent Emirates roadshow. How will you ever train enough replacements to fill that gap? I do of course realise that not all 120 will leave at the same time, but considering the fact that it takes on average 3 months to train a pilot to qualify him/her to fly on line - it will be a tall order I must say!!
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: RSA
Posts: 287
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Firstly cabotage is not one of the freedoms of the air.
The point I was trying to get across was that
countries have laws in place to protect themselves and prevent foreign carriers from operating domestically within its borders.
Emirates will get their return on investment by the publicity
they will get during the soccer matches and pre and post match interviews.
They signed a commercial deal with FIFA and as far as I know, FIFA have
got no authorisation to permit flights by a foreign carrier within RSA.
The point I was trying to get across was that
countries have laws in place to protect themselves and prevent foreign carriers from operating domestically within its borders.
Emirates will get their return on investment by the publicity
they will get during the soccer matches and pre and post match interviews.
They signed a commercial deal with FIFA and as far as I know, FIFA have
got no authorisation to permit flights by a foreign carrier within RSA.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Sandpit
Age: 55
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Its a fact that Emirates got the extra slots. It might only be for the World Cup soccer though. One would have expected a formal announcement with an explanation of the implications to domestic Airlines - or maybe I missed it.
I would agree with DropTheDunlops - the biggest threat to the airlines is the flood of pilots leaving for offshore jobs. Our political situation and the way pilots are treated in SA also don't help to stem the tide.
I would agree with DropTheDunlops - the biggest threat to the airlines is the flood of pilots leaving for offshore jobs. Our political situation and the way pilots are treated in SA also don't help to stem the tide.
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: South Africa
Age: 50
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Empty planes
I'm sorry gents, but I have trouble imagining a profitable domestic route with a B777 or A340. Especially when their main base is a continent away. I seriously doubt that EK will be buying new equipment in order to satisfy a possible gap in a far-off market. It is the smaller operators who will make it in the long run. 1-Time, Comair, SAX, Airlink, Nationwide. Less red tape and time wasting. Less image and more bottom line.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Hades.
Posts: 752
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Except that they will make money by doing routes like Cape Town - Durban-Dubai etc. Stay on the aircraft, less hassle etc etc.
Since there are 2 X 777 and shortly 1 X 330 daily, it's not hard to see that there is a demand for the services out of SA and if they can pick up some domestic on the way..............
Since there are 2 X 777 and shortly 1 X 330 daily, it's not hard to see that there is a demand for the services out of SA and if they can pick up some domestic on the way..............
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: George, South Africa
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Since there are 2 X 777 and shortly 1 X 330 daily, it's not hard to see that there is a demand for the services out of SA and if they can pick up some domestic on the way..............
It's only the extra two flights a week that starts in November that will be operated by A330, all other 18 flights will be 777-300ER. From February when the 21st flight starts, then all will be 773ER.
If they believe they can do it, so let them be, rather have EK as SA's 'national airline' than an airline which cuts back routes more than what they start new ones! In that sense we'll have a few new destinations soon...Venice, Toronto, Houston, Ahmedabad...
It's only the extra two flights a week that starts in November that will be operated by A330, all other 18 flights will be 777-300ER. From February when the 21st flight starts, then all will be 773ER.
If they believe they can do it, so let them be, rather have EK as SA's 'national airline' than an airline which cuts back routes more than what they start new ones! In that sense we'll have a few new destinations soon...Venice, Toronto, Houston, Ahmedabad...
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Here
Posts: 49
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Newcatle's runway is shorter than Durban and Emirates Operates out of there. Just did the sums, An A330 can do a 220000kg's take off out of Durban at a temp of 35C. Max is 230000kg's. Max zfw is 170000kg's plus 48000kg's of fuel gives u 218000kg's. So no probs for the A330 to operate out of Durban with a full load.
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: It wasn't me, I wasn't there, wrong country ;-)
Age: 78
Posts: 1,757
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Putt for Dough note well & learn Cabotage
Freedoms of the Air
8th Freedom:
The right to transport passengers, cargo and mail within the territory of a state which is not the aircraft's state of registration. (full cabotage)
8th Freedom:
The right to transport passengers, cargo and mail within the territory of a state which is not the aircraft's state of registration. (full cabotage)
Last edited by merlinxx; 27th Sep 2007 at 09:01. Reason: Add
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: In the seat
Posts: 284
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Gents, surely you can see that once EK get there full quota of flights per week SAA will suffer in a big way. By going direct from CPT or DUR to DXB and onto Europe and where ever will impact on the carriers domestic loads and international loads.
Give EK half chance and they'll have your market, the price is better and their service is better. They don't care who runs the show, it's a battle for the buck and market share. If SAA just focuses on the "African market", it will alienate them from providing services overseas and EK will eat into their revenue big time.
As someone previously mentioned, Rome is burning, the time has come. I forecast the downfall of another jurasic legacy carrier within 5 years, SAA RIP.
Give EK half chance and they'll have your market, the price is better and their service is better. They don't care who runs the show, it's a battle for the buck and market share. If SAA just focuses on the "African market", it will alienate them from providing services overseas and EK will eat into their revenue big time.
As someone previously mentioned, Rome is burning, the time has come. I forecast the downfall of another jurasic legacy carrier within 5 years, SAA RIP.