43 Air School (threads merged)
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propflyer 43
43 is one of the best flying schools around.
I was a student and then an instrustor there - now flying commercially in Europe along with a few others after doing my JAR licence - excellent training
I was a student and then an instrustor there - now flying commercially in Europe along with a few others after doing my JAR licence - excellent training
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JAA approval for 43rd!
Im writing to verify that the school HAS got JAA approval fromm the IAA but unfortunatly it is for selected cadets only! Sigmar Aviation in conjunction with City Jet are running a new course down there as a new form of recruitment. There are 5 of us flying down there on the 16th of March.
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Flown with a couple of cadets who graduated from 43 in 2005. Not impressed. Low time instructors are trying teach advance skills - and failing miserably. I just call it the way i see it. The airline not too happy with 43 either!
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Everyone has their own opinion. I didn't train at 43 but I work with someone who did. He was there in 2001 and just started flying Barons. He reckons 43 used to be great but now aren't the best. If you're a private student maybe look elsewhere as they give preference to airline cadets, with regards to aircraft bookings, etc, unfortunate but true. Don't think that 43 is the only school in S.A. there are plenty of other schools in the country that are as good or better than 43 and preferance is certainly not given to 43 guys when it comes to jobs, certainly not at the companies I've worked at. Also heard rumours that SAA aren't entirely satishfied with the training and a couple of cadets were washed during their intership with SAX. I say again I didn't train there but this is what I heard from guys who have. Hope this helps. 
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What about Algoa in PE or FTC in George in comparison? I heard nothing but good things about Algoa on this forum. I personally know someone who flew with FTC and liked the school. However, I believe that the aircraft availability at FTC (on the twin in specific) is rather unreliable.
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some mothers' children
reptile i might have my head totally up my own 
here but it seems to me that anywhere you go instructors will generally be low time guys looking to build hours... obviously thats a generalisation but i would say fairly accurate.
the good thing about 43 is that the programme is structured in such a way that even low time instructors cant fail miserably- heres a thought.... maybe the problems not the organisation but the pilot that trained there!
it does look like they favour contracts with airline cadetts now, but private people still go through at a fair pace despite the sometime bad weather- anyone notice the great weather we've been having in jhb lately
here but it seems to me that anywhere you go instructors will generally be low time guys looking to build hours... obviously thats a generalisation but i would say fairly accurate.the good thing about 43 is that the programme is structured in such a way that even low time instructors cant fail miserably- heres a thought.... maybe the problems not the organisation but the pilot that trained there!
it does look like they favour contracts with airline cadetts now, but private people still go through at a fair pace despite the sometime bad weather- anyone notice the great weather we've been having in jhb lately
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Absolutely right! I'm just an observer from the airlines point of view. 43 was selected to provide training for airline cadets. When you want to provide a service like that, you need to deliver a product that meets the clients expectation. It is in that respect that I believe 43 failed. The cadets thet were trained in Oz were by no means Yeagers', but they were noteably superior to the 43 product.
Low time instructors is a symptom of the industry. Whe can burn that bridge on another thread at another time.
Low time instructors is a symptom of the industry. Whe can burn that bridge on another thread at another time.
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43 the best ya right
I have been in aviation for approximately 15 years. I have flown with many pilots over the years and 43 graduates do not rate in my top 10. One thing I will give them is 10 out of 10 for their arrogance/confidence. However arrogance when they are wrong is a dangerous thing. They believe that they know all and no one can teach them anything!
I have been in many situations with these "gods gift to aviation" pilots and they are in a word SHOCKING. When they come out of the promised land of flying they really lack basic skills! I am fortunately in an airline now and only on occasion have to fly with these Chuck Yeager's of SA aviation.
The truth be told the idea of 43 is great but the attitude that comes with that licence is not worth the money! I have sent my kids some where else to learn the skills required to be a good and competent pilot.
I have flown with many competent pilots and alot of 43 products but initial they should realise they are small fishs in a big pond.
I have had the misfortune of meeting a pilot from 43 lately who is after a few months is a training Captain on a reasonable sized aircraft and son you have alot to learn.
This is not a personal attack but this is the truth!
In all honesty and I would recommend many other schools. But you make up your own mind.
I have been in many situations with these "gods gift to aviation" pilots and they are in a word SHOCKING. When they come out of the promised land of flying they really lack basic skills! I am fortunately in an airline now and only on occasion have to fly with these Chuck Yeager's of SA aviation.
The truth be told the idea of 43 is great but the attitude that comes with that licence is not worth the money! I have sent my kids some where else to learn the skills required to be a good and competent pilot.
I have flown with many competent pilots and alot of 43 products but initial they should realise they are small fishs in a big pond.
I have had the misfortune of meeting a pilot from 43 lately who is after a few months is a training Captain on a reasonable sized aircraft and son you have alot to learn.
This is not a personal attack but this is the truth!
In all honesty and I would recommend many other schools. But you make up your own mind.
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wifepilot
43 Airschool caters for kids that need discipline and a wake up call in the morning. They spoonfeed. So if your wife is older than 20 ( if not ..lucky you ) I suggest you send her off to a smaller school that gives a more personal deal. It 's guaranteed to be cheaper too - 43 is well known for being the most expensive. Also must agree with the statement someone made about experience of instructors. Many other schools will have a better mix of instructors eg. some will actually have some aviation experience - as opposed to the ones at 43 who has mainly never been further than the PE tma. Not saying there is anything wrong with low time instructors - they are good at teaching basics but a few hours with someone that has actually flown a commercial aircraft is worth a lot - especially towards the end of the COM training.
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Leon,
I read flyinginireland occasionally and happened to pop in there for a read this evening. For some reason the site wont take any replies on your topic
and I remebered that you had posted on here about this cadetship.
This probably should not be posted on a public forum but Im in a daring mood and I am seriously pi off for lack of a better phrase. Also thought it might get a good debate going 
You do realise that the scheme that leon is talking of is costing 6 irish students 95 000 euro's to do ALL training at 43 apart from the IR test which ofcourse being JAA has to be done in JAA airspace. Once the course has been completed (frozen ATPL - 300 hours max) cityjet may or may not offer you employment. From my understanding ,and Leon by all means correct me on this, a substantial deposit is required.
Im not going to say anymore as its just going to get my blood pressure rising and its just not worth it but by all means feel free to comment.
I read flyinginireland occasionally and happened to pop in there for a read this evening. For some reason the site wont take any replies on your topic
and I remebered that you had posted on here about this cadetship. This probably should not be posted on a public forum but Im in a daring mood and I am seriously pi
off for lack of a better phrase. Also thought it might get a good debate going You do realise that the scheme that leon is talking of is costing 6 irish students 95 000 euro's to do ALL training at 43 apart from the IR test which ofcourse being JAA has to be done in JAA airspace. Once the course has been completed (frozen ATPL - 300 hours max) cityjet may or may not offer you employment. From my understanding ,and Leon by all means correct me on this, a substantial deposit is required. Im not going to say anymore as its just going to get my blood pressure rising and its just not worth it but by all means feel free to comment.
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The stigma
I whent to 43 did the hole twin com if thing.
and its been 3 years and 5 months since i left.
I really enjoyed my time there and the training was very good, but thats not the problem!
When you leave there you are marked for life. As a nother 43 guy.
There are pilots out there on conracts at some companys that imediatly treat you like s t because you just hapen to do your training.
So be-awear of the mark
and its been 3 years and 5 months since i left.
I really enjoyed my time there and the training was very good, but thats not the problem!
When you leave there you are marked for life. As a nother 43 guy.
There are pilots out there on conracts at some companys that imediatly treat you like s
t because you just hapen to do your training.So be-awear of the mark
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not all 43 pilots suck
JETwash
Please don’t generalize I know there are some arrogant numb nuts from 43,
But don’t treat them all like idiots give them a fear chance firs.
I when’t to 43, and did my eye’s go open when I left. I learned more about flying in the firs six months after I left than I did in the entire year there.
But unfortunately 4 years later and I still get the stigma from time to time.
Its is utter non-sens .
My opinion spoiled brats make arrogant pilots and there are a lot of those at the most expensive school in the country.
Please don’t generalize I know there are some arrogant numb nuts from 43,
But don’t treat them all like idiots give them a fear chance firs.
I when’t to 43, and did my eye’s go open when I left. I learned more about flying in the firs six months after I left than I did in the entire year there.
But unfortunately 4 years later and I still get the stigma from time to time.
Its is utter non-sens .
My opinion spoiled brats make arrogant pilots and there are a lot of those at the most expensive school in the country.
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Bottom line, it's up to the individual to have the right attitude - you get good pilots from 43, as well as bad, just like any other flight school - although the syllabus at 43 is supposed to be fairly comprehensive, so they should have at least covered all the bases. To assume that somebody is rubbish because they trained at a certain flight school is just plain silly and premature - you at least have to get an idea of that particular persons approach to aviation, before you start getting all overexcited. Likewise, anybody with an attitude of 'I did my training at XXX flight school, so you can all lick my boots now' deserves a good kick in the pants. Again, it's down to their attitude.
My 2c.
My 2c.
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Why does it always turn into a scrap on PPrune?
I have no special affiliation to any school. Although harsh I think jetwash has told alot of truths in his posting! I have also been exposed to alot of 43 products and honestly they do have an attitude.
Saying that I am also in the contract world and I dont agree that the old contract guys treat the 43's like crap! If anything the guys I have worked with have been absolute gentleman. I have learnt so much from these guys. Maybe the 43's could be more open to the idea that you can't learn everything in the circuit and on the way to PE!
Does it really matter what school you come from. When you leave the flying school, how much do you really know anyway? You have to realise that your training has only just begun. Trust me it, it never stops.
Good luck to all.
I have no special affiliation to any school. Although harsh I think jetwash has told alot of truths in his posting! I have also been exposed to alot of 43 products and honestly they do have an attitude.
Saying that I am also in the contract world and I dont agree that the old contract guys treat the 43's like crap! If anything the guys I have worked with have been absolute gentleman. I have learnt so much from these guys. Maybe the 43's could be more open to the idea that you can't learn everything in the circuit and on the way to PE!
Does it really matter what school you come from. When you leave the flying school, how much do you really know anyway? You have to realise that your training has only just begun. Trust me it, it never stops.
Good luck to all.
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After reading all the posts i have a few questions:
1. How many hours do you need to be regarded as a 'low-time' instructor? As far as i know none of the SAA Cadets are instructed by instructors with any less than 500 hours of instruction. And that is the MINIMUM requirement.They also have to be at least Grade II and are therefore mostly senior instructors.
"Flown with a couple of cadets who graduated from 43 in 2005. Not impressed. Low time instructors are trying teach advance skills - and failing miserably. I just call it the way i see it. The airline not too happy with 43 either!"3rd March 2006 22:36 REPTILE
Unlike many other flying schools, a new instructor at 43 has to work himself up in the system. he only teaches PPL's and after completing 4 of those, he can continue with the next phase, and so it continues. They are constantly being monitored by a quality control manager who has over 40 years of instruction experience. Failing miserably? I think they are doing very well considering some of the material they are given to work with. I don't know of any other school with such a good, structured system. Every hour flown has a specific exercise which has to be completed satisfactorily. No low-level flying with your mates to build your hours...
2. "Also heard rumours that SAA aren't entirely satisfied with the training and a couple of cadets were washed during their intership with SAX. " Flyer 14
The Cadets are trained up to Comm standard and they are passed by External DE's who are not involved with the air school. So they definitely meet Comm standard. That is 43's job done. Going onto a Dash 8 is a lot to ask of someone with a brand new comm. They will obviously require extra training. Any person would in that situation. How much did you guys know after 200 hours? You cannot teach someone to be an airline pilot in 200 hours. Experience is something that comes with time
3. As far as the attitude issue is concerned... I have had the unfortunate experience of having an arrogant student from another school swear at me and my students and making racist remarks while taxying behind us, on frequency at Lanseria... His PTT got stuck and didn't realise it. This continued for about 5 minutes. I'm not going to mention the school, because- guess what- it's not a very well-known school anyway. So nobody cares. But when it comes to 43... What i'm trying to say is that you will find arrogant people everywhere. It is not the instructor's job to teach a person something his parents should have done. We can try but in the end it is up to the individual.I completely agree with STRONG MEDICINE
"maybe the problems not the organisation but the pilot that trained there!"
STRONG MEDICINE
In conclusion i would like to say that no flying school is perfect and there is always room for improvement. We know that there is a world outside 43. But you have to start somewhere, and in my opinion 43 is the best place to have your basic flying foundation laid down.
1. How many hours do you need to be regarded as a 'low-time' instructor? As far as i know none of the SAA Cadets are instructed by instructors with any less than 500 hours of instruction. And that is the MINIMUM requirement.They also have to be at least Grade II and are therefore mostly senior instructors.
"Flown with a couple of cadets who graduated from 43 in 2005. Not impressed. Low time instructors are trying teach advance skills - and failing miserably. I just call it the way i see it. The airline not too happy with 43 either!"3rd March 2006 22:36 REPTILE
Unlike many other flying schools, a new instructor at 43 has to work himself up in the system. he only teaches PPL's and after completing 4 of those, he can continue with the next phase, and so it continues. They are constantly being monitored by a quality control manager who has over 40 years of instruction experience. Failing miserably? I think they are doing very well considering some of the material they are given to work with. I don't know of any other school with such a good, structured system. Every hour flown has a specific exercise which has to be completed satisfactorily. No low-level flying with your mates to build your hours...
2. "Also heard rumours that SAA aren't entirely satisfied with the training and a couple of cadets were washed during their intership with SAX. " Flyer 14
The Cadets are trained up to Comm standard and they are passed by External DE's who are not involved with the air school. So they definitely meet Comm standard. That is 43's job done. Going onto a Dash 8 is a lot to ask of someone with a brand new comm. They will obviously require extra training. Any person would in that situation. How much did you guys know after 200 hours? You cannot teach someone to be an airline pilot in 200 hours. Experience is something that comes with time
3. As far as the attitude issue is concerned... I have had the unfortunate experience of having an arrogant student from another school swear at me and my students and making racist remarks while taxying behind us, on frequency at Lanseria... His PTT got stuck and didn't realise it. This continued for about 5 minutes. I'm not going to mention the school, because- guess what- it's not a very well-known school anyway. So nobody cares. But when it comes to 43... What i'm trying to say is that you will find arrogant people everywhere. It is not the instructor's job to teach a person something his parents should have done. We can try but in the end it is up to the individual.I completely agree with STRONG MEDICINE
"maybe the problems not the organisation but the pilot that trained there!"
STRONG MEDICINE
In conclusion i would like to say that no flying school is perfect and there is always room for improvement. We know that there is a world outside 43. But you have to start somewhere, and in my opinion 43 is the best place to have your basic flying foundation laid down.