43 Air School for a Kenyan
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Musa
Some companies have a culture of intimidation and bullying until one's confidence is destroyed before waving their tiny willies at you so they can feel better about themselves. It's not race based, it's because some folks are arseholes and get their jollies that way. Fortunately it's becoming less of a problem as CRM becomes more prevalent but some old die hards still try it on. I doubt a place like 43 would subscribe to those tactics but not being witness to them, refuting your word is difficult on that score.
Glad your new school is working out better but be aware that these tactics will continue to pop up among the small minded in your aviation career. If you'd kept it impartial and described the problem instead of blaming it on race I reckon you'd have got a far more balanced and informative response.
Some companies have a culture of intimidation and bullying until one's confidence is destroyed before waving their tiny willies at you so they can feel better about themselves. It's not race based, it's because some folks are arseholes and get their jollies that way. Fortunately it's becoming less of a problem as CRM becomes more prevalent but some old die hards still try it on. I doubt a place like 43 would subscribe to those tactics but not being witness to them, refuting your word is difficult on that score.
Glad your new school is working out better but be aware that these tactics will continue to pop up among the small minded in your aviation career. If you'd kept it impartial and described the problem instead of blaming it on race I reckon you'd have got a far more balanced and informative response.
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Check This
You can say all you want, but I laid out some points that none of you dared to rubbish. Do not hate on the fact that you are recieving what you dished out.
You can all go and eat your hearts out. I stand by my arguments.
Later
You can all go and eat your hearts out. I stand by my arguments.
Later
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Let it go.
Ug,
sheees - you have a huge chip on your shoulder!! Let it go mate - its been 13 years and time to move on - LET IT GO!!! Verwoed has come and gone, its the "new" south africa where colour does`t make a difference....no.......wait.....yup, IT DOES MAKE A DIFFERENCE JUST LIKE BEFORE!! - The way I see it, the only one here who has a problem with the colour of your skin is YOU!!! Stop feeling sorry for yourself and get on with it.
sheees - you have a huge chip on your shoulder!! Let it go mate - its been 13 years and time to move on - LET IT GO!!! Verwoed has come and gone, its the "new" south africa where colour does`t make a difference....no.......wait.....yup, IT DOES MAKE A DIFFERENCE JUST LIKE BEFORE!! - The way I see it, the only one here who has a problem with the colour of your skin is YOU!!! Stop feeling sorry for yourself and get on with it.
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contrails8,
Thanks for bailling a brother out. African Aviation is definitely threatened by larger issues. I think the ideal situation at 43 was if it was an all white academy. That way if a student wasnt coping - theyd probably fire the instructor, NO WAY A WHITE CHAP CANT FLY!!! Be real guys if you wash out this many number of blacks then a similar number of whites washed out would suffice to convince the black folks nothing to do with their race.
Some of you guys have reduced this to a mudslinging contest. When does it stop. Pilots should be world citizens - celebrating diversity and not threatened by it. So come on guys take your words back and blame the actual perpetrators of racial crimes and not individuals who belong to that race. Dont defend evils that happened or are happening - did some guys expose their real selves? Under that fake smile lies a ...... Some of those who rubbished musaQ's arguments seem to be doing a good job supporting them now.
Will the REAL PILOTS please stand up. What were we discussing again????
Thanks for bailling a brother out. African Aviation is definitely threatened by larger issues. I think the ideal situation at 43 was if it was an all white academy. That way if a student wasnt coping - theyd probably fire the instructor, NO WAY A WHITE CHAP CANT FLY!!! Be real guys if you wash out this many number of blacks then a similar number of whites washed out would suffice to convince the black folks nothing to do with their race.
Some of you guys have reduced this to a mudslinging contest. When does it stop. Pilots should be world citizens - celebrating diversity and not threatened by it. So come on guys take your words back and blame the actual perpetrators of racial crimes and not individuals who belong to that race. Dont defend evils that happened or are happening - did some guys expose their real selves? Under that fake smile lies a ...... Some of those who rubbished musaQ's arguments seem to be doing a good job supporting them now.
Will the REAL PILOTS please stand up. What were we discussing again????
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Ugflyer
By the way its receiving not recieving (i before e except after c)....must be an American school that you went to
So what you are saying is that racism is ok if it’s black on white "because we deserve it".......... have I understood you correctly? Because if I have then I call you a racist and treat you with the distain that you deserve
MusaQ most of us at some time have been subject to the likes of questionable instruction, however if what you say is correct and please keep in mind we only have your side of the story, then as Solid Rust Twotter says please don’t immediately whip out the race card and blame racist policies, its more than likely those instructors will treat a white pupil in the same situation the same as you were treated.
Do not hate on the fact that you are recieving what you dished out
So what you are saying is that racism is ok if it’s black on white "because we deserve it".......... have I understood you correctly? Because if I have then I call you a racist and treat you with the distain that you deserve
MusaQ most of us at some time have been subject to the likes of questionable instruction, however if what you say is correct and please keep in mind we only have your side of the story, then as Solid Rust Twotter says please don’t immediately whip out the race card and blame racist policies, its more than likely those instructors will treat a white pupil in the same situation the same as you were treated.
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Very interesting - I was at 43 circa 1999 and I remember they had a Kenyan Flight Instructor, very much an ethnic Kenyan and very good as an Instructor. Management hasn't changed much since then, so why the racial slurs now when things must have moved on a lot since then?
Methinks that said complainant has his own problems, certainly I have always thought that 43 were the leaders in the non-biased approach, after all it appears they train a much higher proportion of indigeneous Africans than than those of European descent.
Methinks that said complainant has his own problems, certainly I have always thought that 43 were the leaders in the non-biased approach, after all it appears they train a much higher proportion of indigeneous Africans than than those of European descent.
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The bloke to which you refer is a brilliant individual, Porridge. I reckon he'd get irritated with the small minded crap going on here as much as the next person. Did a bit of work in Kenya and the Sud with him and he's definitely as sharp as a razor. Probably in KQ by now if there's any justice...
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Right - I have to draw a line in the sand - if your post has an aviation context (even if it's racism related) then please feel free to continue the debate but if you're going to make a soapbox rant regarding racism, with no aviation connection, then I'm going to bin the post as it has no place on this website.
Carry on please.
4HP
Carry on please.
4HP
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At 43, the instructors and managers do not see you as black or white, they see you as green - the colour of money - irrespective of whether your name is mandela or verwoerd.
The more money, the better - its business.
Now - when someone is washed it has f-all to do with which side of the colour spectrum they come from. It comes from their flying abilities and the possibility that they might just not be cut out for the task at hand No one gets whashed without good reason, and more likely than not the reasons have been stipulated by the company that sent you there in the first place.
Perhaps the fact that SAA and the like immediately scoop up every qualified black pilot, helps explain why no black guys stick around to become instructors at 43. Would you rather be bashing the circuit all day long in a cheroke earning average pay, or take up your righteous place in the right hand seat of a large airliner?? Secondly - as most of the black students are sponsored to attend 43, what would be the motivation behind tossing the sponsorship aside and rather staying on as instructor? You see, Musa, already some major accusations that you have made alledging racism is explained purely by having look at what is really going on. You know very well what sort of a rise your initial post will have, because it is currently very fashionable to try and and explain any shortcomings with a black person, as being part of a bigger racist plot.
Unfortunately, and heres the fun bit....even for you, blaming your personal shortcomings on racism gets you nowhere. Other than promulgating the stereotype of the angry black man, you will one day find that when africa no longer has any white faces (yes yes, we already know about that), you will have no one left to blame for your own shortcomings. That - rafiki, is when you are going to be sitting up a creek with no paddle. How then will you explain to your sponsor that you failed, not because you are black, but because you are not good enough.
The time is coming when the ideal of having no white faces in positions of management and power, and I have no hassles with that, for africa is after all for the africans n'est pas? Around this time it will become blatantly clear that individuals who have been hiding their lack of skills/motivation/ability behind the race card, perhaps dont belong there in the first place.
I will cherish that day, the amount of surprised faces when there is no longer some other race to blame....oh hang on, then you will blame the west, a la bob across our northern border.
Blame blame blame, easy aint it. You can work hard, or you can rather just blame someone when you dont get your way.
Crying racism is the perfect tool to create trouble in SA these days. It is the perfect shield behind which your own inadequacies can hide. Being considered sub-par has nothing to do with your reflectivity index, but purely the way in which you conduct yourself in a cockpit.
Now lets quit our fussing and rather just go flying.
The more money, the better - its business.
Now - when someone is washed it has f-all to do with which side of the colour spectrum they come from. It comes from their flying abilities and the possibility that they might just not be cut out for the task at hand No one gets whashed without good reason, and more likely than not the reasons have been stipulated by the company that sent you there in the first place.
Perhaps the fact that SAA and the like immediately scoop up every qualified black pilot, helps explain why no black guys stick around to become instructors at 43. Would you rather be bashing the circuit all day long in a cheroke earning average pay, or take up your righteous place in the right hand seat of a large airliner?? Secondly - as most of the black students are sponsored to attend 43, what would be the motivation behind tossing the sponsorship aside and rather staying on as instructor? You see, Musa, already some major accusations that you have made alledging racism is explained purely by having look at what is really going on. You know very well what sort of a rise your initial post will have, because it is currently very fashionable to try and and explain any shortcomings with a black person, as being part of a bigger racist plot.
Unfortunately, and heres the fun bit....even for you, blaming your personal shortcomings on racism gets you nowhere. Other than promulgating the stereotype of the angry black man, you will one day find that when africa no longer has any white faces (yes yes, we already know about that), you will have no one left to blame for your own shortcomings. That - rafiki, is when you are going to be sitting up a creek with no paddle. How then will you explain to your sponsor that you failed, not because you are black, but because you are not good enough.
The time is coming when the ideal of having no white faces in positions of management and power, and I have no hassles with that, for africa is after all for the africans n'est pas? Around this time it will become blatantly clear that individuals who have been hiding their lack of skills/motivation/ability behind the race card, perhaps dont belong there in the first place.
I will cherish that day, the amount of surprised faces when there is no longer some other race to blame....oh hang on, then you will blame the west, a la bob across our northern border.
Blame blame blame, easy aint it. You can work hard, or you can rather just blame someone when you dont get your way.
Crying racism is the perfect tool to create trouble in SA these days. It is the perfect shield behind which your own inadequacies can hide. Being considered sub-par has nothing to do with your reflectivity index, but purely the way in which you conduct yourself in a cockpit.
Now lets quit our fussing and rather just go flying.
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So we agree?
Funny how this has been turned around and now lack of black instructors is coz they have direct entry to airlines - (they opt not to be instructors). So can you trust the 'currently disadvantaged' to train the 'previously disadvantaged' without hard feelings. Doesnt this give credence to musaQ's allegations. Maybe he was picked on out of envy (he read racism). Lack of skill doesnt wash since he's continued his flying. Seems we are agreeing on something.
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I owe this to others.
It is obvious that 43 has been elevated to a good school beyond reproach. But it is also run by humans who can be inhuman. I happened to have run into the big guy after being washed out and the picture still plays in my mind. Him bragging how he'd let me go easy to a colleague with a wide grin. Professional?
Anyone explain that away? By choosing not to be timid this forum gives others a chance to narrate their tales and maybe then we can stop denying it.
My apologies again to the people who are beyond this.
Anyone explain that away? By choosing not to be timid this forum gives others a chance to narrate their tales and maybe then we can stop denying it.
My apologies again to the people who are beyond this.
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“I happened to have run into the big guy after being washed out and the picture still plays in my mind. Him bragging how he'd let me go easy to a colleague with a wide grin. Professional?”
Well MQ, thank you for clearing it up……………..this might be a tad unprofessional but racist, come on!!! You should ask the question “What would I have said about the instructor if he was black saying the same thing?” Most probably you would have accused him of unprofessional behaviour and not being a racist….maybe double standards on your part??????? Purge your feelings of anger and focus on your flying.......that should be your priority.
E
Well MQ, thank you for clearing it up……………..this might be a tad unprofessional but racist, come on!!! You should ask the question “What would I have said about the instructor if he was black saying the same thing?” Most probably you would have accused him of unprofessional behaviour and not being a racist….maybe double standards on your part??????? Purge your feelings of anger and focus on your flying.......that should be your priority.
E
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ERASER,
I agree that's unprofessional of him and not racist. My post quoted - 'racism and all'. Guys featured so much on racism - guess that's hard for them. Racism is only one of the stuff that happened. About racism, it did happen. It obviously pains me that I should use a blanket term to include all the good caps at 43. This one time a colleague had gone solo and at 43 we used to carry him off the plane and this one Instructor says "Where are the other m
ys to pick one of their own..". He didnt think we heard him. Shocking? Yes it did happen - gives you a picture of a persons mind. Is that what he thinks I am? So why does he take time to instruct m ys how to fly. Anybody defending that too?
.
43 changes you from the eager novice whose eager to learn in the first days to ' I CANT WAIT TO FINISH' kind of guy once you get sucked into the system.
AM focussed on my flying ERASER, but obviously the past has refused to go.
I agree that's unprofessional of him and not racist. My post quoted - 'racism and all'. Guys featured so much on racism - guess that's hard for them. Racism is only one of the stuff that happened. About racism, it did happen. It obviously pains me that I should use a blanket term to include all the good caps at 43. This one time a colleague had gone solo and at 43 we used to carry him off the plane and this one Instructor says "Where are the other m
ys to pick one of their own..". He didnt think we heard him. Shocking? Yes it did happen - gives you a picture of a persons mind. Is that what he thinks I am? So why does he take time to instruct m ys how to fly. Anybody defending that too?.43 changes you from the eager novice whose eager to learn in the first days to ' I CANT WAIT TO FINISH' kind of guy once you get sucked into the system.
AM focussed on my flying ERASER, but obviously the past has refused to go.