43 Air School for a Kenyan
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Or may be the truth is so vague and undefined that everyone can have a good self righteous, chest beating spout wherever your views lie.
Meanwhile another, far smaller, thread showing the collective, worldwide value and perception of your licences taking another nose dive into the crapper through corruption is spared your faux concern, outrage or, god preserve us, action and evidence.
Interesting priorities.
Do you lot just bitch or simply expect 4HP and a couple of other good guys to make things happen for you?
Rob
Meanwhile another, far smaller, thread showing the collective, worldwide value and perception of your licences taking another nose dive into the crapper through corruption is spared your faux concern, outrage or, god preserve us, action and evidence.
Interesting priorities.
Do you lot just bitch or simply expect 4HP and a couple of other good guys to make things happen for you?
Rob
Está servira para distraerle.
That's a trifle along the lines of a rock in the sky post, an arrester wire of a missive!
The presumption here has to be a reference to the alleged licence purchase possibilities at certain southern hemisphere civil aviation authorities?
The truth of the matter really is that the state of affairs at 43rd or any other flight school anywhere is irrelevant if the licence system and thus the appropriate CAA itself is corrupt?
As the holder of a lapsed ZA ATPL who has been trying to resurrect it for some time now, this pilot has found the CAA to be less than helpful and quite dilatory in arriving at any conclusion whatsoever. The South African CAA, from this pilot's seat, behaves with all its old fashioned portcullised ignorance which was as much a characteristic of the Afrikaans management as it is under the new tribal authority. In fact, one would consider perhaps, possibly paying, shall we say, a dividend, just to expedite the delay and accomplish the mission. Thereby hangs the rub of course for if someone who really has no serious use for a South African licence any longer, a licence which he has once earned, held and operated under, has become so exasperated that he is prepared to cut the corners, think what the pressures must be under for those who can actually make money out of the arrangement and who is not up to the mark, especially if a somewhat underhanded route is the only one available?
Perhaps it would ginger things up a bit if such a CAA came amiss at its ICAO audit?
Probably, even were that to happen, the disgrace would be meaningless to those who should be abashed at it and simply lead to a raising of whatever charges might, or might not, already be levied for extracurricular paperwork.
Perhaps someone in the know could post the designation and details of the ICAO operative heading any inspection in order that reports could be sent to that organization. Reports which would, of course, have to be absolutely anonymous lest sudden decapitation await the insidious troublemaker?
As for the state of affairs at 43rd itself, one has absolutely no knowledge of the place whatsoever, although the name itself is more than mildly pretentious. It could be, of course, that there are those in South Africa who believe that those from other countries in Africa have come to 43rd in order to take advantage of a certain rumoured easy licence advantage route. If such were the case, then of course a certain degree of nationalistic pride may be making itself felt. Nationalism and racism are really not of the same emotional fabric and should not be confused, although they can both produce the same rather unpleasant form of discrimination. Indeed, it could perhaps be argued that nationalism is a European concept of separation whereas racism is an African one; parallel concepts with the same unhappy results. No matter then, but perhaps those who are obliged to seek flight training in countries other than their own and who feel that as a consequence of such action they become victims of circumstance or location had best direct their attention to their own governments in order to establish their own training schools appropriate to their desired standards.
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good one
Verticalspeed,
The external assessor or a company captain idea has always been floated by students. Whenever a company captain visited the school, things would be swept under the carpet. Stuff would surface when the guy is far away to do any good.
I think the "PPRuNe test" is also a brilliant idea. That way the committment to teach is there from the word go since selection is done by the institution. No need for a 'selection' after enrollment. It would also be hypocritical washing the person you recommend.
The external assessor or a company captain idea has always been floated by students. Whenever a company captain visited the school, things would be swept under the carpet. Stuff would surface when the guy is far away to do any good.
I think the "PPRuNe test" is also a brilliant idea. That way the committment to teach is there from the word go since selection is done by the institution. No need for a 'selection' after enrollment. It would also be hypocritical washing the person you recommend.
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cavortingcheetah
Young Man
I have no doubt (by your extended vocabulary) that you are quite intelligent. My question is: Do you go out for a social evening with friends and try to impress and bore them at the same time by speaking in elevated English, in the same way as you post here on PPrune?
If you want to post, keep it simple for the general populace. We are all very impressed, but get the drift...
I have no doubt (by your extended vocabulary) that you are quite intelligent. My question is: Do you go out for a social evening with friends and try to impress and bore them at the same time by speaking in elevated English, in the same way as you post here on PPrune?
If you want to post, keep it simple for the general populace. We are all very impressed, but get the drift...
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The whole point is not to limit the school. It avoids a duplication of sorts. If you are not happy with the company selection, then maybe you should be allowed a hand in the selection. That way you wont turn back on your selection and allege things you didnt see while making the 'professional opinion' on who you want to bring on board. Allegations such as those made here about flying not being 'in the blood' would not arise.
Simply the school selects who it really wants to train and it better deliver.
Simply the school selects who it really wants to train and it better deliver.
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And to you SaMusa...
You seem to have been the victim of abuse. Perhaps it's time you sought councilling, because it's quite apparent that you are not getting the joy or attention that you so desperately crave in this forum. Yaaaawwwn...
You seem to have been the victim of abuse. Perhaps it's time you sought councilling, because it's quite apparent that you are not getting the joy or attention that you so desperately crave in this forum. Yaaaawwwn...
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MVS - When you have mastered the art of reading, then bother to post a reply. My post about LANGUAGE was addressed to Cheetah. Now climb back under your rock, Sunshine!
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Dear MQ
Before you left your home base to start your training in SA at 43, did your sponsor explain their exact requirements, the performance levels and minimum standards they expected from you? Was this expected performance levels and standards given to 43 and did they comply, did you comply? Did your sponsor give you their contact details should you experience any difficulty in SA? Did you and the rest of the group complained about your problems?
You, most probably being part of a group of sponsored trainees have yet to mention the group size and the total of graduates and/or washed trainees. Did you take up the alleged “racist” behaviour and other complaints with the CFI? When you realized nothing was being done by the 43 staff, did you take it up with your company captain when he visited? When you where washed your sponsor should have been present and/or held an “exit” interview with you. Did your sponsor explain the reasons you where found to be unfit to continue their training program and did you inform them of your troubles at 43? What was the reaction of your sponsor regarding the serious complaints and accusations? Did your sponsor abandon you is SA, repatriated you back home, did you return to SA or did you by mutual consent remain in SA?
It is so very sad to see that a person may “bash” a flight school and instructor from another country without that school/instructor being given a chance to explain, defend or admit. Just because a “brother” said this then it must be the truth, guilty until proven otherwise………especially when it comes to a certain race in SA. The most obvious is brushed aside and the nicest and biggest sympathy drawing excuse for my failure is dragged closer and dished up………..this will also keep my new school on their toes………When in Rome do as the Romans………
E
Before you left your home base to start your training in SA at 43, did your sponsor explain their exact requirements, the performance levels and minimum standards they expected from you? Was this expected performance levels and standards given to 43 and did they comply, did you comply? Did your sponsor give you their contact details should you experience any difficulty in SA? Did you and the rest of the group complained about your problems?
You, most probably being part of a group of sponsored trainees have yet to mention the group size and the total of graduates and/or washed trainees. Did you take up the alleged “racist” behaviour and other complaints with the CFI? When you realized nothing was being done by the 43 staff, did you take it up with your company captain when he visited? When you where washed your sponsor should have been present and/or held an “exit” interview with you. Did your sponsor explain the reasons you where found to be unfit to continue their training program and did you inform them of your troubles at 43? What was the reaction of your sponsor regarding the serious complaints and accusations? Did your sponsor abandon you is SA, repatriated you back home, did you return to SA or did you by mutual consent remain in SA?
It is so very sad to see that a person may “bash” a flight school and instructor from another country without that school/instructor being given a chance to explain, defend or admit. Just because a “brother” said this then it must be the truth, guilty until proven otherwise………especially when it comes to a certain race in SA. The most obvious is brushed aside and the nicest and biggest sympathy drawing excuse for my failure is dragged closer and dished up………..this will also keep my new school on their toes………When in Rome do as the Romans………
E
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Lets fix it!
MusaQ!
I just want to highlight a few things for you. I trained at 43 myself and got my CPL there. Oh, by the way I'm black too.
I went there to follow my dream and not to sit down and analise the Airschool. I understand that you were a Cadet. True that you guys are under pressure. Pressure works like a pyramid. You are not alone!!!!!
Its starts from the Goverment, to the Airline,to the CAPT in charge of the Cadets, to the Airschool: The CFI, Safety Officer, Instructors, YOU, the Cook, the Cleaner, the Driver and even the security gaurd at the gate!
Dont you think that the fact that your instructors and the CFI pushed you hard in order for you to be what the your sponsor requires? You might have mistaken that for racism as most of the instructors there a predominantly white.
On the other hand there is a tendancy for black peope to use racism as an excuse of not working hard enough and making the most of what little opportuinity one gets. The time is over for that, we are all the same in this world and no preferences go with colour MusaQ.
I dont want you to mislead yourself in believing that people hate you because of your colour! Its not like that. And if this racism does exist in 43, I couldn't see or find it when I did my trinning!
I'm not saying this out of anger but out of concern and worry over a fellow aviator. I'm black too and trust me, I dont see the difference!
Be strong buddy, work hard and you'll see how great life is! Enjoy flying, it has no colour!!!!
I just want to highlight a few things for you. I trained at 43 myself and got my CPL there. Oh, by the way I'm black too.
I went there to follow my dream and not to sit down and analise the Airschool. I understand that you were a Cadet. True that you guys are under pressure. Pressure works like a pyramid. You are not alone!!!!!
Its starts from the Goverment, to the Airline,to the CAPT in charge of the Cadets, to the Airschool: The CFI, Safety Officer, Instructors, YOU, the Cook, the Cleaner, the Driver and even the security gaurd at the gate!
Dont you think that the fact that your instructors and the CFI pushed you hard in order for you to be what the your sponsor requires? You might have mistaken that for racism as most of the instructors there a predominantly white.
On the other hand there is a tendancy for black peope to use racism as an excuse of not working hard enough and making the most of what little opportuinity one gets. The time is over for that, we are all the same in this world and no preferences go with colour MusaQ.
I dont want you to mislead yourself in believing that people hate you because of your colour! Its not like that. And if this racism does exist in 43, I couldn't see or find it when I did my trinning!
I'm not saying this out of anger but out of concern and worry over a fellow aviator. I'm black too and trust me, I dont see the difference!
Be strong buddy, work hard and you'll see how great life is! Enjoy flying, it has no colour!!!!
Last edited by SuperVanRider; 12th May 2007 at 17:06.
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ATF,
Your posts are irrelevant to this forum and your bias is duly noted. You've already taken a side without addressing any issue. Get over yourself and learn your spelling.
Counselling not councilling.
PS: Those who offered spelling lessons aptly left.
Your posts are irrelevant to this forum and your bias is duly noted. You've already taken a side without addressing any issue. Get over yourself and learn your spelling.
Counselling not councilling.
PS: Those who offered spelling lessons aptly left.
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If I may be allowed to address some issues here:
An institution that claims to train world class pilots must not fall short. Measures must be taken to integrate different cultures within its confines. The school either failed its students or vice versa judging by the ex-43 comments I have come across.
The more I read this string the more am convinced something did happen at 43. Maybe this is all true - logically how do you expect someone who lived through a discriminatory regime yesterday to wake up one day when the order changes and 'embrace' the previously disadvantaged race and banish any bias he had overnight. Wounds take time to heal. The way I see it Africa is ready for 43 but 43 is not ready for Africa. Those unwilling to change surely must be repalced by those who are committed to a 'global village'.
In my curiosity I sought to ask around about state of affairs at 43 and wasnt surprised. The tales are varied but there seems to be an agreement that something is amiss. And here is the shocker - even those who 'graduate' in the end are deeply concerned about what happens behind the curtains. An official at 43 once went to Nairobi to iron out matters involving the school.
If it's true that the school feigns innocence when the 'captain' visits and only takes out the wash card when he is gone then that's a sad tale. Very sad. Very, very ..sad.
The way I see it those who defend the school have helped to expose the prejudices that may exist with one using phrases as "sitting in your mudhut, in some hole of a country". If it's true he is ex-43 and that he trained with some kenyans then he just got busted on what he thought of the kenyans.
Some have judged musaQ to be an "inferior" pilot without second thought on the strength of umh .. HEARSAY. Their 'friends' have continued the bashing on the strength of umh .... more HEARSAY. Some have been quick to defend the school and validate that by claiming to know some kenyan 'friends' who have no complaints while truth be told the rules of association at 43 are 'defined' - how can you know someone's grievances if you dont associate with them socially? Somebody must be able to trust you to tell you his fears.
I am more keen on ex-43s rather than those who claim to visist the institution often and claim not to suffer any racism. Look at the perpetrators again.
In our haste to judge the school I also think we must give credit to those at 43 who are true to their cause - give their best despite having stubborn students. I know of a chap at 43 who can take anyone and mould them to be the best pilot with patience.
His philosophy: 'only birds have flight abilities in their genes, all of us start at the same level and CAN learn'. Kudos!
Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill-will.
PS: And rumour has it that KQ will take action in future - hopefully soon. The way I see it, it either stops the program or some understanding is reached on the treatment of its cadets. If and when that happens, remember you first heard it on PPRuNe.
An institution that claims to train world class pilots must not fall short. Measures must be taken to integrate different cultures within its confines. The school either failed its students or vice versa judging by the ex-43 comments I have come across.
The more I read this string the more am convinced something did happen at 43. Maybe this is all true - logically how do you expect someone who lived through a discriminatory regime yesterday to wake up one day when the order changes and 'embrace' the previously disadvantaged race and banish any bias he had overnight. Wounds take time to heal. The way I see it Africa is ready for 43 but 43 is not ready for Africa. Those unwilling to change surely must be repalced by those who are committed to a 'global village'.
In my curiosity I sought to ask around about state of affairs at 43 and wasnt surprised. The tales are varied but there seems to be an agreement that something is amiss. And here is the shocker - even those who 'graduate' in the end are deeply concerned about what happens behind the curtains. An official at 43 once went to Nairobi to iron out matters involving the school.
If it's true that the school feigns innocence when the 'captain' visits and only takes out the wash card when he is gone then that's a sad tale. Very sad. Very, very ..sad.
The way I see it those who defend the school have helped to expose the prejudices that may exist with one using phrases as "sitting in your mudhut, in some hole of a country". If it's true he is ex-43 and that he trained with some kenyans then he just got busted on what he thought of the kenyans.
Some have judged musaQ to be an "inferior" pilot without second thought on the strength of umh .. HEARSAY. Their 'friends' have continued the bashing on the strength of umh .... more HEARSAY. Some have been quick to defend the school and validate that by claiming to know some kenyan 'friends' who have no complaints while truth be told the rules of association at 43 are 'defined' - how can you know someone's grievances if you dont associate with them socially? Somebody must be able to trust you to tell you his fears.
I am more keen on ex-43s rather than those who claim to visist the institution often and claim not to suffer any racism. Look at the perpetrators again.
In our haste to judge the school I also think we must give credit to those at 43 who are true to their cause - give their best despite having stubborn students. I know of a chap at 43 who can take anyone and mould them to be the best pilot with patience.
His philosophy: 'only birds have flight abilities in their genes, all of us start at the same level and CAN learn'. Kudos!
Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill-will.
PS: And rumour has it that KQ will take action in future - hopefully soon. The way I see it, it either stops the program or some understanding is reached on the treatment of its cadets. If and when that happens, remember you first heard it on PPRuNe.
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Thank You
Ma man Lex, I stand behind you 100%. Unfortunately, I cannot write with passion anymore since I have been slapped with a "gag order". But on the whole, we should all be aware that no one gets over their beliefs and traditions overnight. Especially those that have been followed for the better part of a century.
ATF get a life! It is quite obvious you lack one........maybe spend more time checking your grammar rather than bashing everyone around.
And to everyone else; for those that think there is an issue that needs to be addressed, my hat's off to you. And for those that do not, I have no words for you.
"If it looks like a chicken and walks like a chicken, then IT IS a chicken"
I told you ug - don't post inciteful claptrap that has no avaition content; there are many websites that cater for those with a beef with those of another skin color. Go find one. See you in a few weeks. 4HP
ATF get a life! It is quite obvious you lack one........maybe spend more time checking your grammar rather than bashing everyone around.
And to everyone else; for those that think there is an issue that needs to be addressed, my hat's off to you. And for those that do not, I have no words for you.
"If it looks like a chicken and walks like a chicken, then IT IS a chicken"
I told you ug - don't post inciteful claptrap that has no avaition content; there are many websites that cater for those with a beef with those of another skin color. Go find one. See you in a few weeks. 4HP
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E,
'The requirements' if any are not laid out in the open. Just lessons. The non disclosure gives the school reason enough to intimidate students on 'standards'. And yes we did contact the company to complain but obviously the school isnt happy when you bypass 'the chain' and go telling on them. Pretend to sort out and wash.
SVD,
I wouldnt use my being black to get any mileage. Doesnt work like that where I come from. What excuse would i make in Kenya?
You're right there: LET'S FIX IT!
'The requirements' if any are not laid out in the open. Just lessons. The non disclosure gives the school reason enough to intimidate students on 'standards'. And yes we did contact the company to complain but obviously the school isnt happy when you bypass 'the chain' and go telling on them. Pretend to sort out and wash.
SVD,
I wouldnt use my being black to get any mileage. Doesnt work like that where I come from. What excuse would i make in Kenya?
You're right there: LET'S FIX IT!
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I found the thread interesting despite the spelling. What counts at the end of the day is the meaning. My company sends (black) sponsored students to School 43 and a number of our pilots have sponsored themselves through there. After UgFlyer has been gagged, I'll not comment on their experiences, nor will I be visiting the thread again as it's been officially killed.
G'bye! - Ugflyer rammed his own gag down his throat. Do yourself a favor - do a search on Ugflyer's previous posts; see how his agenda has shifted and how, in the recent past, there has been no aviation content in his theme - just a continued blathering in support of his racially skewed manifesto. There's no room for racism or xenophobics on this forum. Live with it. 4HP
G'bye! - Ugflyer rammed his own gag down his throat. Do yourself a favor - do a search on Ugflyer's previous posts; see how his agenda has shifted and how, in the recent past, there has been no aviation content in his theme - just a continued blathering in support of his racially skewed manifesto. There's no room for racism or xenophobics on this forum. Live with it. 4HP
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have any successful Kenyan students accused 43 of racism? , or nigerians, Rwandans or anyone that has passed?
Secondly, howcome foreigners writing Kenyan exams fail for sure the first time they write??
, or nigerians, Rwandans or anyone that has passed?Secondly, howcome foreigners writing Kenyan exams fail for sure the first time they write??
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Ugflyer - sorry to hear about your predicament. Hope to see you back soon.
SuperVanRider,
I see you edited your post. Thanks for making some words and sentences bold. Your Point? You being black means ......? And I realise you admit you have '[few] opportunities' because of your race. History has shaped the present and we need to get it right now to shape the future. I was just wondering, does affirmative action work foy you?
I.R.P and foxy,
Are you victims of racism in Kenya? If yes, would that make it okay for musaQ's trauma?
If I amy quote IRP ".... howcome foreigners writing Kenyan exams fail for sure the first time they write??"
Do I sense a trend here? Where are those guys who accused mQ of crying 'racism' to explain away his suppossedly "lack of skill/commitment" despite the facts that came forth. Oh I forgot, the shoe does feel weird on the other foot.
NO I WONT SINK THAT LOW. I'll go the tried and tested way and ask for facts. Do you have statistics to support that?
Do ALL foreigners fail the first time they write? If they do pass the second time, what's the big deal? They PASS eventually as you imply!
I know of Kenyans who failed the first time - KCAA didnt constitute a commission to gauge whether they were genuine kenyans.
TomBola - I think it would be fair if you aired your comments here. You only left speculation. You must help the discussion move forward. The mod has been very accomodating thus far. Your comments on 'their experiences' will be much valued in this forum.
SuperVanRider,
I see you edited your post. Thanks for making some words and sentences bold. Your Point? You being black means ......? And I realise you admit you have '[few] opportunities' because of your race. History has shaped the present and we need to get it right now to shape the future. I was just wondering, does affirmative action work foy you?
I.R.P and foxy,
Are you victims of racism in Kenya? If yes, would that make it okay for musaQ's trauma?
If I amy quote IRP ".... howcome foreigners writing Kenyan exams fail for sure the first time they write??"
Do I sense a trend here? Where are those guys who accused mQ of crying 'racism' to explain away his suppossedly "lack of skill/commitment" despite the facts that came forth. Oh I forgot, the shoe does feel weird on the other foot.
NO I WONT SINK THAT LOW. I'll go the tried and tested way and ask for facts. Do you have statistics to support that?
Do ALL foreigners fail the first time they write? If they do pass the second time, what's the big deal? They PASS eventually as you imply!
I know of Kenyans who failed the first time - KCAA didnt constitute a commission to gauge whether they were genuine kenyans.
TomBola - I think it would be fair if you aired your comments here. You only left speculation. You must help the discussion move forward. The mod has been very accomodating thus far. Your comments on 'their experiences' will be much valued in this forum.
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Lex you are right to a certain extent, which in fact helps me rest my case. I am not crying racism! I asked about foreigners, not any specific colour. The fact that I did get it first time had nothing to do with my skin colour - or better not have...
Anyway, it is a well known fact that unless you do something very special, there is just no way that you will pass the exams first time up - why is that??
and that comes from the lips of a kenyan pilot by the way.
So what did I do?? Well I just shut up and rewrote and passed, because as an african I know that sometimes logic does not always preface a decision by state departments, and organisations that are rather murky when judged on transparency....
So now we still havent reached the answer to my previous question. Why is it only ever the failures that cry racism, and never the guys that stand and and be counted as successful? You know why....
I asked about foreigners, not any specific colour. The fact that I did get it first time had nothing to do with my skin colour - or better not have...Anyway, it is a well known fact that unless you do something very special, there is just no way that you will pass the exams first time up - why is that??
and that comes from the lips of a kenyan pilot by the way.So what did I do?? Well I just shut up and rewrote and passed, because as an african I know that sometimes logic does not always preface a decision by state departments, and organisations that are rather murky when judged on transparency....
So now we still havent reached the answer to my previous question. Why is it only ever the failures that cry racism, and never the guys that stand and and be counted as successful? You know why....