Air Mauritius ab-initio program 2006/2007

[UAU242]

Chiyawena Air Mauritius is not paying a cent for the training, none of the "cadets" are getting their flying paid for. I think you missed that important point. This scheme is akin to going out there on your own and getting a loan for your flying.

[Aks]

its really sad all this. i too thought that cadets would be employed after their training. But what i've understood here is that if u pass u might b employed by MK but if u fail its normal that u would not b taken.

But how can it b that MK sends u for traning n that it does not give u the job? ... i prefer the time when MK was paying for the training n u had to sigh a bond. in this way u r sure u will b having a job n need not worry except to pass.
MK wanted to increase the number of mauritian pilots so if it does not ensure cadets of getting a job in Air mauritius then it will not b fair.

[BB07]

Mk cadet scheme

Can somebody shed some light on how an airline can run a cadet scheme, and not guarantee employment to the successful candidates? How does this work?

If that is the case, i think that running the scheme is pointless..

All of the people who took part in the tests and interviewing process have put in a lot of time and effort, MK should probably take this very important factor into consideration and play a fair game.

[BB07]

Passion Vs Commitment

Well i think that most of us here have got the passion for flying, and really want to pursue our dreams. Fair enough, the selected candidates must by some means or the other fund their training themselves, which in itself is a big, a very big investment for most of them. But then, there must be a guarantee that they will be able to recover and fulfill the conditions of the loan. They must at least be guaranteed some type of employment.

[UAU242]

I'm also disappointed with the specifics of the loan. I thought this "cadet scheme" would help young Mauritians to get to the flight deck. The loan certainly doesn't! In addition to having to provide security we are ALSO going to be charged INTEREST! In addition to no guarantee of a job! I think I'm going to take the risk, but i will be spending the whole of my training worrying about my future....not the best way to be going into flying training!
I agree with BB07...whats the point of running a cadet scheme if the future of the company is in doubt??!
Also, if we are not guaranteed employment then why are we forced to go to 43?? its expensive compared to other places, and the licence you come out with (and I stand corrected) is of little use when you have no experience and mauritian citizenship if you can't get something with MK!

On the plus side, chances are good that employment will follow I believe. And the basic pay is sufficient to live and pay the loan back.

[VS1g]

MK has exhausted all the possible reasons for their present precarious situation; fuel prices, hotels having insufficient beds, competition etc. The fact is that the problem lies within and this no one is prepared to accept. Until this happens things won't improve much.
There was mention made of sacking some unproductive staff; come on guys you know full well that there are outside influences that would prevent this from happening.
What you guys are experiencing right now i.e. a lack of any guarantees is exactly the way the company works with its pilots (both Mauritian and expatriate).
The company will survive, and could once again be the great airline it once was if only managers were competent, committed and willing to do what they are paid to do - manage!

..edited for spelling

[BB07]

very well said VS1g.. Lets all hope for a good recovery of the company in the near future...

[raviMK]

Air Mauritius ab-initio scheme 2006/2007

Hi all..
Thanks for the updates and all the questions received through the thread and PMs..I did not expect that the recent meeting with the HR guys will create so much of a debate in here..But let me now update these issues, though I closed the discussion in this thread long time back..
First,the scheme is fully sponsored by SBM and the conditions in the contract are straight to the point..Unlike the MK bond all the previous cadets had been subjected to and guaranteed a 7 years full-time employment in MK,the actual new contract dissociates itself remarkably with employment conditions..
In fact,the contract was formulated by SBM and not by MK..All the financing is done by SBM and they can impose any conditions..
I researched quite enough and you guys do not have to feel victimised since it's not a big deal with previous contracts signed with or without MK..the fact that MK is cutting down cost in all it's operations also means that training of cadets was no exception..To keep cash flow within the company,a partner like SBM came to associate itself and bring financial facilities to the company and to its potential pilots..
Now,upon reading the contract,I do understand that there is no mention of job guarantee at all..And worse,I also realise that if ever any of the cadets fails to complete the course anywhere in the program,he/she will be subjected to pay back SBM..
It's more than a loan rather than a payback package..But it must be understood that MK is not having any financial commitment with this group and it cannot guarantee any job not until the cadets get qualified..Neither can it pronounce a verbal/formal/written statement that the SBM sponsored cadets will be recruited as soon as they return with all their licenses..
So,it is indeed seen as quite of a deadlock and not much of a choice for the selected candidates..But this group of cadets will have to go through it and give up the idea that they will not be recruited as soon as they get back and successfully qualified..I can assure that the cadets who will go for it and complete the course will be recruited once they are back..Right now,no one in the company is in a position to mention it but according to fleet/crew planning,there is a high need of more Mauritian pilots in the next 8 years in MK..
And for the financial guarantees required for the contract,SBM is looking for either properties or equal bank balances..This is nothing new as all the previous groups of cadets in MK have always been asked to prove that they can provide a financial guarantee in case the candidate is unable to complete the course or if he/she quits and tries to violate the terms/conditions of the training..
And there seems to be quite some negative feelings in the general public about MK..Shareholders have lost trust due to last years bad performance,mainly to the Chikungunya outbreak..This has plummeted the MK shares market value..But there is a strong recovery and the results are expected to be much better in the next financial year..
Many think the national carrier is in danger with the opening of the Mauritian skies..But rather,this is well accepted in the team as all standards,whether being ground/overseas/onboard will definitely reach much higher standards..The Mauritian press is a very cheap and short minded one..and when it comes to character assacination..they are really good at it..
All the hard work and dedication of thousands of people inside MK is never reflected in the press..rather the mishaps,incidents and drawbacks are always presented in a very lucrative and convincing manner..
There will be more Mauritian pilots in the flight decks of MK..it is just a matter of time..
I advise you guys/girls not to be intimidated by the harsh reality of the contract as in the end,you are all going to end up working for MK..It's just that there is nothing MK can pronounce in the terms and conditions as it's SBM who made and makes the rules..
The HR guys are always open to proposals/suggestions and I suggest you all meet them and try to find some common understanding before closing the deal..
Will keep the thread updated if necessary..
Cheers..
RaviMK..

[Sylar]

Deceiving

I find the deal proposed by MK unacceptable!!!
I`ve seen cadet schemes from different airlines and it`s really the first time that I`ve heard one like this!!!
They don`t even give us the air tickets to SA,we`ll have to pay for them!!!
At this rate,at the end of the day MK will have more aircrafts than pilots!!

[simplifire]

Re: RaviMK

i find this phrase from RaviMK a bit hard to digest!!
'All the financing is done by SBM and they can impose any conditions..'

[Aladin]

Dear RaviMK...Your optimism really kills me mate!!Is it possible for airlines to be taken over by other airlines in order to survive??...coz that's just what mk needs to: Survive!!

[plocsek]

ab-initio 2006/2007

Hello everybody,
For those who already have a pilot licence,Locals dont really get favours from his imperial majesty DFO.Last week in a mauritian newspaper there were an interview of the actual MK Managing Director ,he said that Mk is actually hiring more and more locals,But I heard that some expats are trying to get there sons on mk flight decks ,2 expats got hired as atr42 f/o 6 months ago and of course there dad are both Mk A340 captains.
Is mk really looking for mauritian pilots??? If yes, then it should have happened long time ago.There is a difference between what is said in the media and what really happens in flight ops.

[Foxtrot_Lima_Mike]

Wow...I wasn't expecting to hear that ! So basically, take a huge loan, go train, and when you get back (en cas de reussite), bring along two red candles in the hope of hearing from us again....And if you don't hear from us, well, you're on yr own (well at least you and SBM)...Pheewww !!! Geese...It's getting better and better, I thought I heard, read, saw everything....what's next?!
Mentality is the problem...And for that to change, those individuals have to go, leaving the seats to fresh, loyal, uncorrupted individuals...
My 2bucks worth....

[UAU242]

MK will pay for the type rating if you are selected, but you will be bonded.

Hi dannythau, i'm well thanks. Bournemouth controllers are friendly aren't they!

[ALTCRUISE]

Future Mk Pilots

Guys, having read the last few threads recently regarding the "conditions" and "lack of commitment" shown towards future MK cadets by the company,...all I can say is BE CAREFUL....BE CAREFUL....BE CAREFUL !!!!
I, just like you, would have done ALMOST ANYTHING to get my first break in aviation, but I would NEVER have commited FINANCIAL SUICIDE in order to achieve this goal! A Tiger will never change it`s stripes, and the total CONTEMPT and DISREGARD shown to present Pilots, and I am certain, for those who join down the line, will never change unless there is a significant "clean-out" of the present incompetent bunch, who I PROMISE you, hold no greater esteem towards "Local" or "EXPAT" Pilots.

Your argument should be that if the company takes all the trouble of putting you through a elaborate "screening process"...and you make it, they offer you a certain "guarantee", that all things being equal, and unless you mess up badly, you DO in fact have a job with MK.

Obviously they are trying to have thier cake AND eat it.....in a very vague and underhand kind of way....and they as a company will certainly NOT lose any sleep at night because of you being bumped off the program for some or other strange reason.

To this day, there are at least 5 or 6 MAURITIAN Pilots with either Australian or JAR "CPL`s" or higher qualification, and although they APPLY for the positions, never seem to make it past the "psycho test"...and a couple of them are still working as "cabin crew"....in other words, they are "in the system" already....oddly enough, working with +-300 passengers at a time, in flight.....but not "suitable to be a pilot, as far as thier "profile" is concerned. Ofcourse, you will never be TOLD what your profile is...so it will ALWAYS be a convenient method to stop the UNWANTED in thier tracks.

Long story short, there is a LOT of politics here, and these guys certainly DON`T play ball fairly....so once again, if you are starting from the bottom, and get offered this strange "maybe we`ll use you after training, maybe not"...get yourself a GOOD LAWYER to read through the fine print and make sure ther is an "escape clause" so that you are covered if the boys in the glass tower are having a bad day....and there will be MANY of those, I promise you! Otherwise you will end up wondering the streets with a HUGE bond and nowere to go to!

[VS1g]

Ravi, wake up and smell the roses.... oh and by the way your coffee is cold. Take off your managent blinkers and see what is really going on around you.

[ChiyaWena]

Sour Grapes

shame plocsek, you obviosly been beaten with the short end of the stick and are feeling sorry for yourself.

MK may have hired ATR f/o's a few months back that had fathers in the airline, but what about the other f/o's that they hired who were expatriate and had no links to the airline. didn't think about them did you.

the reason those pilots were hired was do to their experience. i believe they all went through the same application process and interview as any mauritians on the same intake. MK can't compare plus/minus 1500 multi eng turbine hours on an expats CV to 300 single engine hours on a mauritians CV. if you were a passenger on the aircraft or had family on it. who would you rather have flying it.

not only that but what is an airline to do when it needs crew at entry level and no locals are available. should they just not hire and start cancelling flights because they have said that they want to hire more mauritian pilots. i've also heard lately that MK have stuggled more so with one or two of their local newbee's in training than they have with some expats.

it's supply and demand mate and nothing to do with whether their daddy flies a big plane for MK. and i'm sure the guys that you are getting at wouldn't appreciate your comments. in actual fact i know of more than one expat who all had ties within the airline and didn't get offered the job because there were suitably qualified mauritians to do the job. and that is the whole point of this wierd cadet scheme, if you can call it that. is to curb the supply and demand problem and to try and get a pool of mauritans to pull from when they need to.

so take your sour grapes and sit quietly in the corner eating them by yourself whilst we watch the circus play out in front of us.

[ChiyaWena]

First of all, no I’m not a professor, not in aviation or anything else. Just someone who’s been around long enough to see the big picture.

Dany I think you’ve kind of missed Djaffer’s point. What he’s saying is that MK isn’t the only option for a young mauritian wanting to fly. Of course all of you have the dream for flying for the national carrier, but if it isn’t the best option for you then why kill yourself figuring out how you are going to become I pilot for them.

A lot of us grow up aspiring to be an airline pilot flying a big jet, but that’s purely because as a youngster that is 99% of the aviation we are associated to. And so to us, that’s what being a pilot means, flying for an airline. But there are plenty of other types of aviation out there, and if you ask any airline pilot today, I guarantee that most of them never started in an airline straight away. what about bush flying in Africa, float planes in Canada, aid relief, survey etc etc etc……….. and from my experience any pilot who joins an airline with that sort of background, makes for a better airline pilot.

Now for those of you about to get their nice shinny license, look at all the options, and make MK just one of them. Don’t expect a job anytime soon, I know people, myself included that back in the day, walked the taxiways, hangar corridors, and airport offices, begging for a job, only to have the door slammed in your face. Even offering to fly for free. But you HAVE to get out there. Speak to people in the industry and plan your attack. No one is going to come to you.

Also remember this, MK don’t like doing favours for anyone, and I promise that if you get out there and try find work, MK management will look at it in a positive way and you’ll come across as someone with determination.

Now for those of you that haven’t started training yet, what’s the rush?? If you have cash problems, then forget about flying for a year or 2 and go work overseas and earn some money, what’s wrong with you guys, you’d all rather moan on pprune that you don’t have money . Well newsflash guys, most people starting in aviation don’t have the finances to start, but they make it happen. Go and earn some pounds or dollars, bring it home and then pay for you flying. You aren’t going to miss out on anything, trust me there will still be planes that need pilots in 2 years time. And also keep MK as an option and not a target.

There are cheaper ways of getting your wings than the ones you guys are complaining about.

So I’ll leave you guys with this thought, across the world national airlines employ about 85% locals in their national airline, that’s an average. but more than 90 % of pilots from a particular country don’t fly for their national carrier……………….

[UAU242]

I'd just like to throw in a few points about the previous threads.

Capt Jaffer, you can't leave out conversions in your analysis! They cost time and money, you'll soon see that 1.5 million rising and rising, especially if you don't pass everything first time! Its true that a PPL in uk is essentially the same as PPL in, say, Oz. But whats that got to do with us?? We want to be CPL pilots, not PPL-ers flying on weekends.
Its true there are jobs out there in the world, in all the areas that ChiyaWena mentionned. But there are also thousands of others looking for that job...it could take 1 month, 6 months, 1 year..to get that job. Also costing time and money..and we see that 1.5 million rising again.
Finally, I wouldn't go by whatever Rod Machado says. There are plenty of people who will train and spend the money and never ever get employed in aviation, for whatever reason. I'd say like ChiyaWena, get out there and speak to people and take these posts with a pinch of salt.
Finally, it will take more than 1 or 2 years to save up for a CPL/IR, depending on where you want to do it. Also, working visa's are not exactly a walk in the park to get. There are barriers ChiyaWena that prevent some people, don't forget these.

I don't want to sound all doom and gloom however. I believe it can be done with time and determination. To anyone wanting to embark on that journey, just make sure you get your medical done first!!!

[UAU242]

Hi jaffer, I disagree that CPL and ATPL licences are the same everywhere...,I've flown recreationally in both the UK and US and, if that was anything to go by, the flying was a bit different in each country, mainly radio procedures. but I don't have 2 different CPL licences and therefore can't advise on this (hint hint).
Also, there is encouragement and determination and there is realism. I'll eat my hat when there is a shortage of pilots in the world!! I know plenty of people who have the licence but can't get a job! If you read it somewhere its probably the flying schools trying to get people to pay for their licence! I'd say there is a shortage of experienced pilots. However once again, not qualified to say, these are only things i've been told by instructors and airline pilots. i'm so pessimistic aren't i! Apologies. I'm not trying to discourage people, I just hope people know the risks as well as the positives!
Nice one with the encouragement though Jaffer