New regs for SA DE's/Grade Is
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New regs for SA DE's/Grade Is
I met with a CAA representative today to discuss the requirements for obtaining a Grade 1 instructor rating and then a DE status. I discovered that a new set of requirements have been drafted and will be discussed by CAA and existing DE’s tomorrow June 29th.
Important points are:
DE class 3 – can do PPL tests only, pretty much; needs 1000 hours heli, 250 hours instruction
DE class 2 – can do CPL tests, night ratings; needs 2000 hours heli, 250 hours multi-engine,
DE class 1 – can do anything; needs ATP/IR, 3000 hours heli, 500 hours twin, 100 hours instrument time
Major issues on which I’d like to ask comments are:
1) why 250 hours multi time just to do CPL tests, 95% of which are for single engine guys ? What about a single engine DE rating for CPL tests ?
2) isn’t this just totally biased to existing DE’s who are ex military or police guys ? isn’t this a meal ticket for these guys who are getting fewer, pulling up the ladder behind them and going to charge R000’s now for their time ? NOTE: only existing DE’s are allowed to attend meeting tomorrow – is anyone from ALPA or Flying Instructors’ Association going ?
3) doesn’t this make ATP a waste of time for most guys ?
Important points are:
DE class 3 – can do PPL tests only, pretty much; needs 1000 hours heli, 250 hours instruction
DE class 2 – can do CPL tests, night ratings; needs 2000 hours heli, 250 hours multi-engine,
DE class 1 – can do anything; needs ATP/IR, 3000 hours heli, 500 hours twin, 100 hours instrument time
Major issues on which I’d like to ask comments are:
1) why 250 hours multi time just to do CPL tests, 95% of which are for single engine guys ? What about a single engine DE rating for CPL tests ?
2) isn’t this just totally biased to existing DE’s who are ex military or police guys ? isn’t this a meal ticket for these guys who are getting fewer, pulling up the ladder behind them and going to charge R000’s now for their time ? NOTE: only existing DE’s are allowed to attend meeting tomorrow – is anyone from ALPA or Flying Instructors’ Association going ?
3) doesn’t this make ATP a waste of time for most guys ?
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Maybe the whole DE rating does need a review. Because as it stands a guy who spends 3000 hours in the circuit at grand central and has only intercepted radials in one direction, and taught this to his pupes (I know of such a situation personally) is entitled to apply for and obtain a DE rating.
The standard needs to be upped just a tad, in my humble opinion.
The standard needs to be upped just a tad, in my humble opinion.
Join Date: May 2004
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Goaround
I agree with you whole heartedly. They ARE pulling up the ladder behind them, and just watch. We won't be paying for example R1 000 for a test, it is going to SKYROCKET now.
What about grade II's?(or the new ones at least) Where will we get the experience of testing if we're not allowed to do PPL tests anymore. Personally, for me in my line, there will be NO point of getting an ATPL.
I also agree with the fact that there should be some other representitives allowed into this meeting. Why can they not just get everyone that will be affected by such a desicion involved?
I'd love to know who the representitive from CAA was. Send me a PM if you don't mind.
I agree with you whole heartedly. They ARE pulling up the ladder behind them, and just watch. We won't be paying for example R1 000 for a test, it is going to SKYROCKET now.
What about grade II's?(or the new ones at least) Where will we get the experience of testing if we're not allowed to do PPL tests anymore. Personally, for me in my line, there will be NO point of getting an ATPL.
I also agree with the fact that there should be some other representitives allowed into this meeting. Why can they not just get everyone that will be affected by such a desicion involved?
I'd love to know who the representitive from CAA was. Send me a PM if you don't mind.
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As I understand it, the new regs were driven by CAA, altough I don't know at who's instigation.
I agree that the standard must be kept high or preferably raised and I just did all my renewals last week, but the examiner must be appropriate to the testing done.
Eg. 3000 hours around the windsock at GC should enable a guy to DE for Grade IIIs, Grade IIs and VFR CPL tests. What more do we need ? However for a twin IF rating you will need a guy with more heavyweight experience.
The problem here I think is the usual one of trying to treat helicopter pilots like fixed wing pilots because there's little or no helicopter experience at the CAA these days. 250 hours twin and 100 hours IF is okay for an aeroplane driver, indeed most guys get this pretty quickly if they are doing any sort of transport flying but it's not the same story on the Rotor wing side. Even the likes of guys at Portnet must take a long time to get 100 of IF.
The point though is that it falls to us to take up the issue with CAA as to be fair, they can't be expected to think for us. The current DEs are mostly ex SAAF and are usually airline so they don't have much of feel for the 'normal' heli CPL.
I will call CAA this afternoon, as invited, and see what comes out of the meeting. Depedning on this, perhaps we can mount some sort of exercise to give CAA a better picture of how we, the consumers, think this could be done ?
I agree that the standard must be kept high or preferably raised and I just did all my renewals last week, but the examiner must be appropriate to the testing done.
Eg. 3000 hours around the windsock at GC should enable a guy to DE for Grade IIIs, Grade IIs and VFR CPL tests. What more do we need ? However for a twin IF rating you will need a guy with more heavyweight experience.
The problem here I think is the usual one of trying to treat helicopter pilots like fixed wing pilots because there's little or no helicopter experience at the CAA these days. 250 hours twin and 100 hours IF is okay for an aeroplane driver, indeed most guys get this pretty quickly if they are doing any sort of transport flying but it's not the same story on the Rotor wing side. Even the likes of guys at Portnet must take a long time to get 100 of IF.
The point though is that it falls to us to take up the issue with CAA as to be fair, they can't be expected to think for us. The current DEs are mostly ex SAAF and are usually airline so they don't have much of feel for the 'normal' heli CPL.
I will call CAA this afternoon, as invited, and see what comes out of the meeting. Depedning on this, perhaps we can mount some sort of exercise to give CAA a better picture of how we, the consumers, think this could be done ?
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Victory for common sense (apparently).
Steve Odendahl now a beacon of clear thinking at CAA.
Grade I / DE (H) requirements to stay the same except that may only need CPL now to quaify. Get your 1500 hours instruction and 3 years with a school and you can apply by letter. Do a presentation and a flight test and you should be in.
Existing mafia tried to object apparently but Steve (also SAAF background remember) won't have it. No multi engine or IF requirements to be forced through.
Hurrah !
Steve Odendahl now a beacon of clear thinking at CAA.
Grade I / DE (H) requirements to stay the same except that may only need CPL now to quaify. Get your 1500 hours instruction and 3 years with a school and you can apply by letter. Do a presentation and a flight test and you should be in.
Existing mafia tried to object apparently but Steve (also SAAF background remember) won't have it. No multi engine or IF requirements to be forced through.
Hurrah !
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That's Steve's position and he's currently in charge. Only Puma and Mi8 need an ATPL anyway in SA, so his view is that it's unrealistic for guys to get one just to do CPL tests on Jetties and R44s in SA.
Makes sense really. However, you'd still need a twin rating and IF to do these tests respectively for some one else.
Makes sense really. However, you'd still need a twin rating and IF to do these tests respectively for some one else.
Join Date: Jan 2002
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Some common sense somewhere ?
Thanks Guys for the news -am in "Darkest Africa " now but home on weekend & would like clarification on my existing ratings .
Have held ratings since "Pontius was a Pilate "
Hate to "sommer" loose them due to "modern changes "
Happy Instructing
Have held ratings since "Pontius was a Pilate "
Hate to "sommer" loose them due to "modern changes "
Happy Instructing
