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-   -   Hard TAP A321 Landing at Madeira Airport (https://www.pprune.org/accidents-close-calls/658366-hard-tap-a321-landing-madeira-airport.html)

patrickal 28th Mar 2024 03:42

Hard TAP A321 Landing at Madeira Airport
 
They may want to check the nose gear and forward fuselage after this one. Perhaps a missed approach would have been the better choice?



Check Airman 28th Mar 2024 05:04


Originally Posted by patrickal (Post 11624965)
Perhaps a missed approach would have been the better choice?

You’ve perfected the art of understatement.

KiloB 28th Mar 2024 07:48

I was there (and for the next 10 hours!). Saw the AC well nose low as it passed the Terminal Window, but didn’t see the touchdown. Commented to my Wife at the time.
Our EZY flight was given the Met at TOD and diverted to Faro. It was a l-o-n-g day for us, but the correct decision.

DaveReidUK 28th Mar 2024 07:55

LIS diversion. Aircraft back in service the following day, so no long-term ill effects.

Gordomac 28th Mar 2024 09:01

Not Madeira again. Looks like when it was stick & rudder and more challenging, we, mostly got it right. Modern fly by wire controlling the flight control surfaces through flight control computers and easier airfield situation have made worse what was just a challenge.

Airbanda 28th Mar 2024 10:15

Clearly not stable at low altitude and touched down some way beyond the markers. Is this the second TAP incident at Madeira recently or am I mixing them up with another carrier?

Sailvi767 28th Mar 2024 13:15


Originally Posted by Gordomac (Post 11625076)
Not Madeira again. Looks like when it was stick & rudder and more challenging, we, mostly got it right. Modern fly by wire controlling the flight control surfaces through flight control computers and easier airfield situation have made worse what was just a challenge.

The Airbus fly by wire is not modern. In fact it’s rudimentary and basic. Modern FBW systems with rate and motion feedback can provide very nice flying aircraft. The 787, new Gulfstream SS and A220 being examples. The legacy Airbus system is basically a dead stick system with zero feedback.

a350pilots 28th Mar 2024 15:28

GA Flaps!

JanetFlight 28th Mar 2024 16:14

Not Hard at all...maybe a kind of "non desirable" Nose gear landing but not hard at all, IMHO...plane was empty/light (only crew) on a ferry flt from near PXO (porto santo) after Div to collect pax at FNC.
The wind was pretty nasty, just observe the sea waves.

1southernman 28th Mar 2024 16:30

Finished my out my time on the 320...Twas the only airliner that I ever used full throw pitch and roll control on in gusty wx..For me the 37 Classic was the most honest in the challenging wx...Never got surprised...Can't say the same for the Bus...:)

Big Pistons Forever 28th Mar 2024 16:43

I 'm thinking when you hear 10 ft and the windshield view is all runway you should probably go around....
Impressive that there was no damage.

Speed_Trim_Fail 28th Mar 2024 16:49


Originally Posted by 1southernman (Post 11625327)
Finished my out my time on the 320...Twas the only airliner that I ever used full throw pitch and roll control on in gusty wx..For me the 37 Classic was the most honest in the challenging wx...Never got surprised...Can't say the same for the Bus...:)

The 737 Classic is, to me anyway, just the best aeroplane to hand fly. Absolutely brilliant machine. Not without foibles sure, but brilliant.

Big Pistons Forever 28th Mar 2024 17:17

Does TAP have a non punitive go around policy ? By that I mean not just what is written in some manual but a culture that rewards going around rather than celebrating those pilots that save bad approaches ?

beardy 28th Mar 2024 17:37


Originally Posted by Big Pistons Forever (Post 11625350)
Does TAP have a non punitive go around policy ? By that I mean not just what is written in some manual but a culture that rewards going around rather than celebrating those pilots that save bad approaches ?

What a ridiculous question. I take it that you have never been to Funchal. Portugal and TAP understand quite how 'challenging' it is and the consequences of screwing it up. You imply that there could be an element of dishonesty and double standards in the system, shame on you.

propaganda 28th Mar 2024 19:44

Air Europe 757 G-BLVH in 1987 managed to push the nose gear leg through the cabin floor . This was before the runway was extended, but it’s always been a Cat C airfield for very good reason.

PENKO 28th Mar 2024 19:47


Originally Posted by 1southernman (Post 11625327)
Finished my out my time on the 320...Twas the only airliner that I ever used full throw pitch and roll control on in gusty wx..For me the 37 Classic was the most honest in the challenging wx...Never got surprised...Can't say the same for the Bus...:)

Ah yes, but does a momentary full sidestick deflection equate to full aileron control in a conventional aircraft? I don’t think so!

Anyway, it looks like he is carrying a lot of extra speed, that aircraft just wants to keep flying.

beardy 28th Mar 2024 20:28


Originally Posted by PENKO (Post 11625416)
Ah yes, but does a momentary full sidestick deflection equate to full aileron control in a conventional aircraft? I don’t think so!

Anyway, it looks like he is carrying a lot of extra speed, that aircraft just wants to keep flying.

So you too have never operated there. The surface wind can be strong and variable to the point of 180 degree and 15 kts or more ie 30 kts difference between the thresholds. Carrying extra speed? Groundspeed can be stable, but airspeed can vary wildly on approach, flare and roll out.

ATC Watcher 28th Mar 2024 20:33

Whatever you say about the 320, those brakes are very impressive !.

Doors to Automatic 28th Mar 2024 21:03

It is easy to see exactly where the approach should have been abandoned - once past the taxiway turn and experiencing the updraft. Obviously very easy to say from the armchair!

On the plus side it does look like a good part of the groundspeed had already gone by the time all three sets of landing gear were on the deck.

Big Pistons Forever 28th Mar 2024 21:27


Originally Posted by beardy (Post 11625358)
What a ridiculous question. I take it that you have never been to Funchal. Portugal and TAP understand quite how 'challenging' it is and the consequences of screwing it up. You imply that there could be an element of dishonesty and double standards in the system, shame on you.

I saw 3 gates that should have triggered a go around. The scariest landing of my life was performed by a training Captain that declared that the 2 aircraft ahead of us that had gone around on an extremely windy and turbulent day were “pussi*es” and he was going to show me how it was done. If you don’t think there can be a disconnect between company policy and what’s happening on the line, then I would suggest you have a limited experience set.


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