Originally Posted by Fortissimo
(Post 11592200)
Originally Posted by JapanHanuma
(Post 11591980)
The US, UK, France, Canada and Germany are all invited to the investigation because the safety board wants to obtain as much information as possible considering that the entire plane was destroyed and possibly a lot of new information can be learnt from the incident even if it isn't related to the reasons behind the crash.
Countries whose citizens have been lost in an accident can also send 'Experts' (state investigators) who will deal with any national interests, liaise with families and the like.
Originally Posted by ATC Watcher
(Post 11592331)
Interesting statement that needs a lot of further explanations to be credible and understood , specially re. his earlier statement that he obtained confirmation that this was correct by the rest of the crew. The CVR will clear that up I guess.
I read another account ( also third hand) that fatigue is investigated and may have played a role. |
Interesting related article on calls for more ATC staff at Haneda. (Japan Today articles often self-destruct shortly.)
In wake of JAL crash, air traffic controllers call for significant staff increase - Japan Today |
Originally Posted by jolihokistix
(Post 11592696)
Interesting related article on calls for more ATC staff at Haneda. (Japan Today articles often self-destruct shortly.)
In wake of JAL crash, air traffic controllers call for significant staff increase - Japan Today Interesting that the Japan Today article is talking about labour shortages. Are there any developments (technology, practices, procedures) going on in ATC to decrease the work load, increase the capacity? I can see that "more people" could help, but I can also see that "more people" could make little real difference. |
Originally Posted by JapanHanuma
(Post 11592421)
Do you want further explanations from me or the pilot?
@ msbbarratt : Are there any developments (technology, practices, procedures) going on in ATC to decrease the work load, increase the capacity? I can see that "more people" could help, but I can also see that "more people" could make little real difference. That said, nearly every busy facility at one stage or another does not have the staff to man all the working positions as you cannot economically man all positions 24/7. So choices are made to have max manning during peaks and reduced manning during low periods. Most ATC incidents occur during low traffic ( statistically ) . In some places , (, in some busy facilities in the US to take an example) , you can have a systemic shortage that you cannot even man all positions during low traffic without using excessive overtime . More workload. but this another story. . Here it is not a pure ATC incident , although , once again the ICAO standard phraseology was not 100% followed,, and the SMR display was not manned and the audio alert was off or not working. Contributing factors at various degrees, but not the cause of the accident . With the information released so far the cause seems to be laying solely with the Dash captain entering an active runway without a clearance. .But I am waiting to see the CVR transcript to make further comments. . |
Originally Posted by bud leon
(Post 11574320)
Nowhere is there any verified information that the Captain asked for confirmation from the crew. JP7000 quoted a news report which said that the captain said the crew agreed that they were cleared for take-off. Despite the fact that we don’t know what the Pilot said in Japanese, that is not the same thing. But this thread has turned that third hand unverified information into a fact that the Captain asked the question and then bias-led conclusions have been drawn.
Originally Posted by alfaman
(Post 11574379)
One wonders what it says about the culture of those posting, doesn't it...
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Current leaks to the Japanese press indicate poor cockpit discipline by the Coastguard crew who were apparently very chatty. This is believed to have distracted the pilot's attention causing him to line up on the runway and not at the entrance. The Coastguard is introducing strict protocols to avoid a repetition.
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Originally Posted by Old Carthusian
(Post 11604081)
Current leaks to the Japanese press indicate poor cockpit discipline by the Coastguard crew who were apparently very chatty. This is believed to have distracted the pilot's attention causing him to line up on the runway and not at the entrance. The Coastguard is introducing strict protocols to avoid a repetition.
Let's see when (if) we see official statements. Am I right the usual 30-days inter report is overdue? |
Going from memory, it seems when I fly general aviation aircraft at towered secondary airports in the US( it has been several years) that the ground controllers are very specific in ensuring that pilots read back the runway number and to hold short of that runway. Seems like a simple solution to replace “taxi to holding point”.
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