AA A321 takes off after smashing ground sign
 

American Airlines A321-231 (N114NN) taxiing out at New York-JFK New York on flight #AA300 to Los Angeles with 109 pax was damaged when its left outer wing struck a sign leaving a large dent on the wing.

Despite the damage, the flight took off.

The pilots then contacted the New York Center controller and stated their intentions to return to JFK Airport, citing they had a "strong roll to the left" on departure

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....ceb92012b0.jpg

https://www.facebook.com/hashtag/aa3...G&__tn__=*NK-R

US News reporting says passenger witnesses claim the plane went to a 90 degree angle on takeoff and hit a runway light. Doesn't sound right.

Word is that at rotation, aircraft lurched left follow by left wing drop, and hit a runway remaining sign before liftoff.

Wake turbulence maybe?

Hahahaha :D

What sort of a sign would be installed on movement areas of an airport so high off the ground that a taxying aircraft could hit it with its outer wing? What is that, 15 or 20 feet up?

Other possible scenarios are available. :O

Ernst Udet
 

Arch Du Liber!
This chap was brilliant , 62 enemy aircraft shot down in WW1
Barnstormer in the 20s and developed the Stuka in the 1930s together with Melitta Staufenberg.

AA300 reported 'we were banking an uncontrolled bank 45 degrees to the left' and 'an uncommanded roll to the left as we rotated' on takeoff to New York Center on 134.6 as they were leveling at FL200 and said they wanted to return to JFK. They said the aircraft was 'fine' but that they wanted to get it checked out.

Ironically they departed 31L from KE intersection with winds of 010 at 17 reported by tower prior to takeoff roll.

So 04L would have actually been less crosswind, but they were departing 04L and 31L KE dependingn on the first fix on the route.
(Flights with first fix RBV are in that scenario generally departed 31L KE)

Blackadder: Always treat your kite like you treat your woman - Lord Flasheart

The R & N thread is becoming the domicile of non-pilots and jokers with little emphasis paid/ professional input applied, to the story being told who think Blackadder was funny. It was in parts, like the curate's egg.

But really, this thread should be a serious discussion (does anyone remember how to do that?) on current affairs and industry news, rumours, happenings, reported mishaps and upsets and accidents.

Save the other stuff for Jet Blast.

Some funny things happening with PPRune site at the moment; thread jumps, lost posts, etc.
The Blackadder post seems right out of context (to me).

Maybe just a victim of the thread jumping.

Which, being interpreted (and de-autocorrected to Ach! Du Liebe) meaneth: F'ing Hell!

So...

The aircraft struck something on the ground while taxiing and no one onboard noticed anything before the takeoff?

The pilots did not feel a thump?

The flight attendants did not feel, hear or even see anything?

The passengers on the left side of the aircraft with window seats did not see anything?

The pilots reported problems with the handling of the aircraft at takeoff but yet climbed to FL200?

What's going on here?

Is it conceivable a part of the sign remained hooked on the wing for a few seconds?

What appears to have happened is that for yet undetermined reasons, right at rotation the aircraft lurched to the left with a significant wing drop. During the ensuing excursion, the left wingtip struck the 5000' remaining marker before becoming airborne. Passengers and flight attendants did report the damage to the flight deck, and the aircraft returned to JFK.

That is about all we know right now. Let the investigators investigate.

Avherald has indicated where the sign is located on the map:
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....e43f02ea5f.jpg

The signs there are what 4-6ft tall?? How much did this aircraft bank? With wind right on the nose?? Are they not allowing for sufficient spacing during single rwy ops?

This should never happen.
All ground furniture adjacent to a runway or taxiway MUST be frangible. If an airport fails to comply with regulations someone is due for a severe talking to.

Just because something is frangible (i.e. will break or yield on impact), doesn't mean you can hit it without sustaining any damage.

Not during taxiing, it happend short after takeoff.

skadi

5000 feet remaining
 

What's the width of that strip? CL!

The width of the strip if it is standard (which I think it is) is 150ft plus (looks like) 60ft shoulder either side. What position the aircraft must have been in to hit that sign on rotation I can only imagine. All I can say is I am glad I wasn't a passenger on that flight!

yikes.

the damage is the outcome of a weirdness not the cause. QAR/DFDR/CVR will be interesting.

Per the Port Authority website:
Runway 13R-31L is 14,511 feet long by 200 feet wide and is one of the longest commercial runways in North America.

https://www.panynj.gov/air-cargo/jfk-runways.html

Citing AVH,
"According to information The Aviation Herald received on Apr 12th 2019 ground tracks reveal the aircraft was dragging its left wing tip for quite some distance on the ground, the ground tracks even suggest the aircraft came close to ground loop.:eek:

The aircraft and left wing tip became airborne just ahead of the runway sign, the left wing tip impacted the sign, parts of which became embedded in the left wing tip. The wing also sustained according damage to its underside near the wingtip."

An A321 has a wingspan of 35.8 m, according to Wikipedia.

Assume it's on the centerline of a 61-meter (200-foot) wide runway.

30.5 m, runway centerline to edge - 17.9, half the wingspan of an A321 = 12.6 m (41 feet), distance from wingtip to runway edge.

An A321 should have a clearance of 12.6 m, or 41 feet, from each wingtip to each edge of the runway.

From the runway edge to the sign that was struck looks like another 75 feet or so, just guessing from the image shown. Let's call it about 22 m.

12.6 m wingtip to runway edge + 22 m runway edge to sign = 34.6 m wingtip to sign.

That would place the sign about 35 m (115 feet) from the wingtip when the aircraft is on centerline.

If all this stuff is correct then that machine must have been quite far off the runway when it hit that sign, about 120 feet laterally displaced on a runway that is 100 feet wide from centerline to edge. Wow!

Ya think....
 

..... when he rolled LEFT on rotation he might just have moved LEFT as a result, and collected the sign on the LEFT side of the runway, his LEFT wing being low enough to clip it.?

Do the newsrags deliberately mis-state the facts to allow them to spice up the headlines.? I think they do. Including the almighty Beeb.

They were not running single runway ops. Arriving 4R and 4L, departing 4L and 31L intersection KE.

The wind given by tower prior to takeoff was 010 at 17.
Where do people get wind straight down the nose?

04/158 (a3244/19) - rwy 31l 5000ft dist remaining sign missing. 11 apr 05:13 2019 until 25 may 02:00
2019. Created: 11 apr 05:13 2019

Thank you.

Meester proach: "It's like stepping back to 1975".

What was wrong with 1975? I thought it was pretty good.

If it turn out that crew skill was a contributing factor, then that will be fair game for comment. However, there are other possible causes. In fact, it is entirely possible that crew skill kept this incident from becoming a hull loss. Why don't we hold judgement until there is at least a preliminary report?

Looking forward to this quote appearing on all discussions of non US airline incidents. /s