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-   -   Cardiff City Footballer Feared Missing after aircraft disappeared near Channel Island (https://www.pprune.org/accidents-close-calls/617514-cardiff-city-footballer-feared-missing-after-aircraft-disappeared-near-channel-island.html)

Midlifec 22nd Mar 2019 09:04

George Porchester also I believe owned and flew the Pa32 that was damaged at Haydock Park last year when struck by a landing Baron G-BYDY, jockeys and trainers involved - more of the same perhaps

Mike Flynn 22nd Mar 2019 09:09

Originally Posted by Gurnard (Post 10426166)
BBC Wales website (referred to earlier) identifies G-KARE as one aircraft connected with these activities.

"The plane they flew on - a Pilatus PC-12 single engine aircraft with the registration G-KARE - is operated by a company called Flexifly Aircraft Hire Limited, based in Surrey and linked to a care home provider."

Company details identify Dr. Karen Graham as a director, thus the registration probably relates to her name. She appears also to be connected with Graham Care Ltd.

I understand it is dry leased so therefore it is down to the pilot or lessee to satisfy the requirements for anything other than private operation.

N88NA which was struck by a landing Beech Baron at Haydock Park is registered to Southern Air Consultancy at Bungay in Suffolk as was the Malibu in the Sala accident.
Any idea who was flying it that day?

oggers 22nd Mar 2019 10:19

Plenty on him.
But no FAA licence for flying N reg internationally is the point. I am not interested in his media presence.

runway30 22nd Mar 2019 13:03

So in flying Sala, McKay has no role in selecting the aircraft or pilot. In flying Sala’s agent he must have been very active in selecting aircraft and pilot because he asked a mate to fly him for free as a favour. Credibility is stretched to breaking point.

lilflyboy262...2 22nd Mar 2019 14:05

Originally Posted by Baron57 (Post 10425480)
PA46 and PC12 are not complex aircraft.

The term ‘complex motor-powered aircraft’ is defined in Regulation (EC) No 216/2008 as follows:

“‘complex motor-powered aircraft’ shall mean:

(i) an aeroplane:
  • with a maximum certificated take-off mass exceeding 5700 kg, or
  • certificated for a maximum passenger seating configuration of more than nineteen, or
  • certificated for operation with a minimum crew of at least two pilots, or
  • equipped with (a) turbojet engine(s) or more than one turboprop engine, or

That is why I said jets. The two aircraft you listed are not jets.
The N registed Eclipse jets however....

goofer3 25th Mar 2019 21:03

Cardiff refuse to pay transfer fee; https://news.sky.com/story/emiliano-...-fifa-11674924

tescoapp 25th Mar 2019 21:24

15 million on the line and a load of grey area cowboys in the mix.... if it wasn't for two people dead it would be entertaining.

Chronus 25th Mar 2019 21:43

Which means Nantes FC short of 15m, Sala`s beneficiaries are short of the tfr fee which would have been due to the player and his future earnings from a promising career. A tragic loss of lives and a financial catastrophe and for what, saving a pittance in cost of flying from A to B. Or was it for convenience, It must be said that had such a convenience not been available then the likelihood of the event would have been considerably less.

WHBM 26th Mar 2019 11:32

Originally Posted by Chronus (Post 10429668)
Which means Nantes FC short of 15m.

Well, if he player was still on their books, he will still be covered by their life insurance which they must have for key personnel ... unless it's like our corporate insurance, which specifically stipulates (I looked) that it includes "Travel by scheduled airline service, and by multi-engined charter aircraft".

I wonder how many Malibu (or Pilatus) pax have that condition.

Geriaviator 26th Mar 2019 16:03

Yes, insurance is the key point to stress here. As I posted earlier our business insurance excluded aviation except as passenger on multi-engined aircraft operated on an AOC. Current rates for personal life assurance are about £12 extra (over and above normal premium) per £100000 life cover per month. So a typical PPL holder OR PASSENGER with £300,000 mortgage will pay about £36 extra per month or go without insurance cover.

I wonder how many Wingly etc. passengers realise their families could be left penniless and homeless should their flight end in disaster? I think the CAA which tolerates these illegal charters under the guise of cost sharing should at least point out the financial risks. In my 26 years of flying I knew of two such fatals, and in those days any form of payment was illegal except for licensed commercial operations.

skyrangerpro 27th Mar 2019 16:26

some more reporting on the legal situation today:


Chronus 27th Mar 2019 20:42

Whatever the legal outcome may be, the most outstanding and critical aspect of this will remain as to how it came to pass that 17million euros worth was trusted to be placed in the hands of an unknown quantity. Was it just incompetence, ignorance, favors owed or know somebody who knows somebody who is, dare I say the name, a Jimmy will fix it I guess it will all be revealed when the whole mess ends up in the courts, sooner or later.

Mike Flynn 28th Mar 2019 00:58

Once again the club has implied that David Henderson was running a charter operation.

Cardiff want to ascertain the exact tie-up between football agent Willie McKay and Nantes, plus his involvement on arranging the doomed flight for Sala.

McKay says he contacted David Henderson to arrange the flight - an experienced pilot who, McKay says, had flown him and many of his players throughout Europe on countless occasions. However, McKay insists he was not involved in selecting either the plane or the pilot.

It's unchartered territory, but Cardiff want the following three questions answered:
  1. Who has liability for Sala being on a flight with a pilot who held a private pilot's licence which does not permit carrying passengers for reward?
  2. What was the condition of the plane?
  3. Why was it flying at night across the largest section of the English Channel?

Henderson has avoided the press but he may well find avoiding CAA prosecutors will not be so easy.

It will be interesting to see where and when the Gamston based Malibu was flown in the months leading up to this tragedy.


The Old Fat One 30th Mar 2019 01:42

Interesting what you chose to highlight from the article Mike.

I go with this...

Meanwhile, high-profile London QC Michael Mansfield has also been brought on board by the Sala family to look after theirs and Emiliano's interests.
MM is a total legal eagle monster.

All involved with this tragedy can look forward to their arses being well and truly exposed in a court of law. And that includes the CAA.

SimonS 30th Mar 2019 08:02

Originally Posted by The Old Fat One (Post 10433904)
MM is a total legal eagle monster.

All involved with this tragedy can look forward to their arses being well and truly exposed in a court of law. And that includes the CAA.



MPN11 30th Mar 2019 09:46

Originally Posted by SimonS (Post 10434003)

All one can say is, "You read it here first, on PPRuNe". :)

Of course, Media interest will fade quickly, given some 'other things' going on, but at least it's nice to see some of the 'facts' going into the open. Slightly tidier reporting would be nice, rather than random paragraphs, but that's just my pedantry.

vanHorck 30th Mar 2019 10:03

To me the fact that the pilot was in breach of his license (commercial, night) is no longer the issue, it will be undoubtedly listed as a breach contributing to the crash, possibly following the "aviate" issue of spatial disorientation and/or icing. What is more important is that this high profile case is an opportunity for the CAA to clamp down on grey charters and bring us back to what the law intended. Commercial is commercial, private is private, and introducing the FAA "common purpose" would be a good start.

Dan Winterland 31st Mar 2019 05:22

Our industry has always had this line that it would take one famous person to be killed in an aircraft accident for it to come to the fore
Dave Edwards
The Air Charter Association
Now that this has occurred, we can expect something to be done. Whatever defence the grey charter operators offer, I suspect it will not withstand the onslaught of a private action headed by one of the UK's foremost QCs.

Chronus 31st Mar 2019 18:49

Originally Posted by Dan Winterland (Post 10434715)

Now that this has occurred, we can expect something to be done. Whatever defence the grey charter operators offer, I suspect it will not withstand the onslaught of a private action headed by one of the UK's foremost QCs.

"" GREY CHARTER OPERATOR" It is this falsity that has given rise and a common acceptance that similar to many branded goods traded under this term that such services as aircraft charters are not fakes, not illegal but cheaper than the branded goods or services. I do not consider this term acceptable to describe and convey the correct sense of what it really it is. In my view the whole thing is an illegal operation and everyone who has been involved in it should face prosecution. The law needs to be strengthened to deter all those so involved, starting with the owner of the aircraft, ending with the pilot and all those in between who have been part of the whole chain. That will put an end to it once and for all.

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