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-   -   Cardiff City Footballer Feared Missing after aircraft disappeared near Channel Island (https://www.pprune.org/accidents-close-calls/617514-cardiff-city-footballer-feared-missing-after-aircraft-disappeared-near-channel-island.html)

mryan75 23rd Jan 2019 12:18

We know the N-number, we know the pilot. It wasn't owned by his agent. There were no "stress" issues, and I guarantee you it didn't "struggle to take off in Nantes", nor did his phone cause it to crash. Amazing how many amateur, non-pilot comments there are.

Guy had had to get somewhere. Took off in bad weather. Got icing. Crashed.

It's happened before and it will happen again.

Cambridge172 23rd Jan 2019 12:23

According to one US aviation database, although the Owner Trustee was Southern Aircraft Consulting, the actual UK owner was a Ms Fay Keely of Coolflourish Limited, Mansfield

Mike Flynn 23rd Jan 2019 12:37

This report from the Times

Emiliano Sala was travelling on a plane believed to belong to Scottish agent Willie McKay when he disappeared over the English Channel. The Argentine forward, who became Cardiff City’s record signing after joining the club from Nantes in a 15 million transfer last week, is feared dead after his light aircraft disappeared from radar screens, although a search has resumed this morning.

Sala was travelling in a Piper PA-46 Malibu aircraft, a single-engine, six-seat plane, with the pilot the only other passenger on board as he made the journey back to Cardiff on Monday evening after returning to Nantes to say goodbye to his former team-mates. The plane is registered to a holding company in Suffolk called Southern Aircraft Consultancy, with a registration number N264DB, but is believed to be owned by McKay, an influential and experienced agent.




McKay is not Sala’s representative, but was involved in brokering the transfer between Cardiff and Nantes and appears to have offered to arrange the player’s travel arrangements. The plane has yet to be found, but there is no suggestion that it suffered a technical fault or was unsuitable for making such a journey. McKay has excellent contacts clubs in the south of France in particular and has brought many French and African players to the Premier League over the years. McKay had not responded to The Times at the time of publication.

The Cardiff chairman Mehmet Dalman confirmed today that the club were not involved in making Sala’s travel arrangements. Cardiff have access to several jets and offered to assist, but he told them his travel plans had already been made as it was a personal rather than a club trip.

“I can say to you categorically that the plane had nothing to do with Cardiff City,” Dalman said. “We were not involved in booking the plane. In fact, we are trying to ascertain ourselves exactly what did happen. The club is looking into the matter and we want to find answers too.




We spoke to the player and asked him if he wanted us to make arrangements for his flight which, quite frankly, would have been commercial. I can’t tell you who arranged the flight because I don’t know at this stage — but it certainly wasn’t Cardiff City.”

Richard Taylor of the Civil Aviation Authority said today that the Piper PA-46 was capable of making such a journey safely.

“Single engine aircraft can be chartered,” Taylor said. “We don’t know what the status of this particular flight was — whether a commercial or private flight. There’s nothing preventing a single engine aircraft flying commercially at night. They were restricted to daytime under commercial operations until a few years ago for a turbine engine aircraft. They can now fly at night and in difficult conditions. But we don’t know what engine this aircraft has.”

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/p...ckay-28h7k8vc8

Mike Flynn 23rd Jan 2019 12:41


Originally Posted by Cambridge172 (Post 10368340)
According to one US aviation database, although the Owner Trustee was Southern Aircraft Consulting, the actual UK owner was a Ms Fay Keely of Coolflourish Limited, Mansfield

She appears to be an accountant and not necessarily the beneficial owner of the aircraft.

PerPurumTonantes 23rd Jan 2019 12:45


Originally Posted by Gurnard (Post 10368175)
Icing sounds very likely, but what about the possible effect upon instruments if the passenger was not using his phone in "flight safe mode"? Evidently he was busy sending messages indicating that he was uneasy.


I'm an electronic engineer with too many years designing safety related electronic equipment. The effect of modern mobile phones on modern electronic equipment should be negligible.


Pitot static and gyro systems are not even electronic. So old style gauges - airspeed, horizon, altitude, turn coordinator, heading, VSI will be completely unaffected.


Modern GPS/glass cockpit systems will be certified to EMC (electromagnetic compatibility) regulations so *should* also be completely unaffected.


There is always the outside chance of something weird happening, but I would put the real world issues - icing / WX / night / single engine / long stretch of water / winter - as almost certainly the real causes. I would be stunned if EMC had anything to do with this.

strake 23rd Jan 2019 12:48

Pilot named in multiple press sources now and aircraft claimed to be owned by, 'football agent Willie McKay':


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...d-send-me.html

https://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/n...-named-2460307


The pilot missing after his plane is thought to have crashed carrying Argentinian footballer Emiliano Sala has been identified as Dave Ibbotson from Northern Lincolnshire.

Mr Ibbotson, an experienced private pilot from Crowle near Scunthorpe, is missing along with Sala after their plane vanished flying from the French city of Nantes to Wales where he had just signed for Cardiff City.

The Piper PA-46 Malibu being flown by Mr Ibbotson went missing on Monday evening near the Channel Islands.

It is understood Mr Ibbotson, had been hired along with the Norfolk-registered single engine plane, by Sala’s representatives to fly the player to Cardiff after he had said his farewells to team-mates at his old club Nantes.

Mr Ibbotson, who worked as a gas engineer based in Crowle, is believed to have had extensive experience carrying parachute enthusiasts on flights from private airfields.


Cambridge172 23rd Jan 2019 12:49


Originally Posted by Mike Flynn (Post 10368356)

She appears to be an accountant and not necessarily the beneficial owner of the aircraft.

Appears to be company director of family business rather than just accountant and based in Bonsall, Matlock, Derbyshire

Mike Flynn 23rd Jan 2019 13:23

It appears he was an experienced parachute pilot.


It is understood Mr Ibbotson, had been hired along with the Norfolk-registered single engine plane, by Sala’s representatives to fly the player to Cardiff after he had said his farewells to team-mates at his old club Nantes.

Mr Ibbotson, who worked as a gas engineer based in Crowle, is believed to have had extensive experience carrying parachute enthusiasts on flights from private airfields.

One picture shows him him at the controls of a light aircraft in a selfie with a parachute jumper.

https://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/n...-named-2460307

Sir Niall Dementia 23rd Jan 2019 13:36

"It is understood Mr Ibbotson, had been hired along with the Norfolk-registered single engine plane, by Sala’s representatives to fly the player to Cardiff after he had said his farewells to team-mates at his old club Nantes.
Mr Ibbotson, who worked as a gas engineer based in Crowle, is believed to have had extensive experience carrying parachute enthusiasts on flights from private airfields.
One picture shows him him at the controls of a light aircraft in a selfie with a parachute jumper."

Ideal chap to be flying a complex single at night, IFR in dodgy icing conditions. Sala's reps and the owner of the aircraft have some serious questions to answer if this is true. After 30 years as a professional pilot with all the checks you have to pass along the way I can't believe that such stupidity is still going on. And organisations like Wingly, Grant Shaps red tape challenge and the supine attitude of the CAA have done nothing to enhance safety.

I am so angry at the death of Mr Sala. Save a few quid, probably break any number of laws, kill someone. What a disgusting waste of life and talent.

SND

clareprop 23rd Jan 2019 13:47

I am very sorry for the families involved but I dread to think where this is going to go.

Just put the fact that Mr Sala was a 15m signing to one side for a moment, I wonder who on this board would allow a loved one to fly across the channel in an unknown 35 year old single-engine piston a/c, in winter, at night with no mode c using the services of a part-time pilot?
Once again, the innocence and lack of knowledge of the non-flying public puts them at risk.

ShyTorque 23rd Jan 2019 13:47

The more we read (if any or all of it can be believed) the more outrageous this situation seems. I'm getting angry, too, because this stinks.

Mike Flynn 23rd Jan 2019 14:02

And more of the story unfolds.


Facebook posts shared before the flight departed on Monday night show Mr Ibbotson talking about being 'a bit rusty with the ILS (Instrument Landing System)'.

He tagged himself at Nantes Airport on Saturday before replying to comments about the flight on Sunday.

The pilot wrote: "Was not to (sic) bad when I got there but I'm a bit rusty with the ils, in France now."

A friend replied: "Rusty with the ILS?! I can't believe that!"

Mr Ibbotson added: "You wanna bet, a little on the high side hehe, better than on the low side."

Sala sent audio messages about the "bumpy ride" he was having as the plane hit bad weather near Guernsey on Monday.

It lost contact near the Casquets lighthouse and vanished at 2,300ft at 8.30pm.

Cardiff City chairman Mehmet Dalman said Sala had "made his own arrangements" to make the trip from Nantes, where he had played before agreeing his switch to the Premier League.



source https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/826101...dave-ibbotson/



anchorhold 23rd Jan 2019 14:03

Yet using the 'Wingly' principle, as long as this is a cost sharing and by that I mean the pilot contributes something towards the flight even though it is a few pounds, the UK CAA see this as legal. If it is hire and reward, then it is simply illegal. Flying for 'expenses', is another complex issue.

Edward Teach 23rd Jan 2019 14:04

Someone floated the idea that maybe a more experienced pilot refused to fly so a replacement was found?

ShyTorque I also. I can't understand what would make anyone think a flight like that, at this time of year, would be a good idea?

runway30 23rd Jan 2019 14:11

I share the sense of outrage at this stupid loss of life. However, can you tell me what you would ban/regulate to stop it happening?

Vilters 23rd Jan 2019 14:14

I am still having problems.

How come a highly experienced pilot flies through a very well predicted snow storm, in a single, at night, over water. (we got the same front a few hrs later reaching the Belgium coast)
At 5000ft? In the middle of the predicted and actual icing zone.
While he can climb to safety with power and options to spare?
And on top of that? ? ?
Asks for a lower altitude?
With an undercooled and certainly partially iced over airframe going through predicted and actual snow?

I have done stupid things in my life, but this one is a hard one.

Mike Flynn 23rd Jan 2019 14:21

I understand he was a para dropping pilot. Clearly by his own admission his instrument flying was “rusty”.

However the big question is how a 15 million football star found himself being flown by from Nantes to Cardiff by a gas engineer and part time pilot in a single piston engined aircraft at night.

clareprop 23rd Jan 2019 14:22

My uncle was a highly-experienced driver. He spent forty years driving a taxi in London without one mishap. Driving outside London on dual carriageways and motorways, he was a menace until his keys were taken away.

Parachuting pilots are very, very good pilots....at dropping parachutists over a regular drop zone on a regular basis.

Planemike 23rd Jan 2019 14:26

This brings back bad memories of another sad unnecessary loss of lives in a similar type of aircraft
Piper PA46 Malibu N186CB at Dunkeswell in November 15. On that occasion four souls were tragically lost.
Circumstances different but result tragically the same......

Mike Flynn 23rd Jan 2019 14:28

All of these weather related incidents have the same basic ingredients.


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