Originally Posted by Sark
(Post 10379036)
I know it probably wouldn’t have made a difference but the concentrated area of search today is further west and north than that being searched, certainly by sea, in the immediate hours after the accident. Any thoughts Actually the GEO Ocean Iii has positioned itself and is stationary at the intersection of all sonar tracks made today by the sonar ship FPV Morven. Its position is approx. 14nm bearing 300 degrees from the Casquets lighthouse. |
The CAA and the DGAC know as much as we do about illegal public transportation. Their problem is to find a way to prosecute with reasonable chances to succeed. On many occasions they lost in court. Judges seem to follow politicians : "we want more business, let's take the rules down". The victims are the public (in the present case a highly respected and beloved young footballer) and to some extent the pilots who accept to play such a dangerous game.
All around in GA newcomers apply this simple scheme : let's buy a plane, finance it, and find people to rent it so that we can pay the bank with their money. If the plane flies often enough, it will also pay for maintenance and fixed costs. When the loan is finished, let's sell the plane and buy another one to do the same again. Well, that implies OPERATING an airplane, which is something they don't want to do, so they leave it up to isolated pilots in desperate need to build up hours. That's how it works. It's been like this for ages but worked mainly in closed circles such as sports. This seems to apply to the accidented aircraft. But now, thanks to the internet, the same scoundrels have found a way to do it on a large scale. Just check out "www.airaffaires.fr". The website is dedicated to users who become "members" of club on line. Aircraft owners are invited to register their airplanes, desperate pilots are also invited to join. Then it is the member's job to organize the trip. The website is very active and the management reports a recent 2.1 M€ fund raising. Needless to say, the founder owns airplanes that are advertised on the website and fly a lot. An N registered MALIBU and a D registered JET PROP DLX, none of which is a suitable transport airplane. Everyone knows their payload is ridiculous but no one is there to check so they obviously fly overloaded very, very often. The DGAC is investigating but they fear that legal action may not end up well... Let's hope that SALA's accident will wake up some people at EASA because there will be more occurrence if nothing is done to stop this madness. And the number of AOC holder will decrease rapidly. |
Originally Posted by SET fan
(Post 10379229)
The CAA and the DGAC know as much as we do about illegal public transportation. Their problem is to find a way to prosecute with reasonable chances to succeed. On many occasions they lost in court.
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The search tracks of both survey vessels today.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....a92e2f73c2.jpg |
Originally Posted by jumpseater
(Post 10378924)
If as you suggest an AOC won’t prevent it, first para, what checks, balances and controls do you suggest? An AOC provides some top cover if adhered to for the operator or crew to cancel a trip. A PPL has none apart from the discipline of operating within the privileges of their license. Your checks and balances in this event event should have been, licensed, proficiency, aircraft serviceability, airfield & navaid serviceability and weather as the basics. Surely that’s what’s required to make the go/no go decision? Access to all of those were available to the pilot and he decided to fly, why? Playing devils advocate, even if some of those basics listed above weren’t available, and a pilot still decided to fly, why? What further checks and balances are you suggesting will have a meaningful impact, i.e. a ‘no fly’ decision, and who’s going to administer and pay for them? |
Originally Posted by Sark
(Post 10379036)
I know it probably wouldn’t have made a difference but the concentrated area of search today is further west and north than that being searched, certainly by sea, in the immediate hours after the accident. Any thoughts That area, all the way up to, including east and south of the channel light vessel, was searched by 2 aircraft on the Tuesday morning following the accident. It was fairly windy on the Tuesday morning, and the sea wasn't 'calm'. |
Deepest part of the Channel that area, close to the Hurd Deep. They will probably also find wartime munitions and low level nuclear waste which will lijely disrupt the search. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurd%27s_Deep Alderney Hurd Deep radioactive waste 'not dangerous' http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-guernsey-22198566 |
Is the Morven returning to base? |
Originally Posted by runway30
(Post 10379329)
Is the Morven returning to base? |
How much does a PA46 piston cost to hire these days . More than a PA28 or a C152 I`d have thought. Could your average gas fitter afford it. So who paid for the hire, if no money changed hands who owed whom a favour. And who found the gas fitter and handed him the keys. There seems so far a trio involved in that ensemble. The footballers agent, his son and a pilot who appears to have done all sorts of dare-does with puddle jumpers. Out of this trio who is the one who is in the know with aeroplanes, must be the dare-do puddle jumper bloke.
There was a time when jumping at any chance to fly and build up hours towards that left seat regular job made sense and offered an opportunity of a career change. I cannot in this instance how it would have made sense to a 59 year old. |
Most of the cases where in the French Caribbeans where illegally transporting tourists within islands is routine. Almost all the procedures failed.
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Originally Posted by Chronus
(Post 10379342)
How much does a PA46 piston cost to hire these days . More than a PA28 or a C152 I`d have thought. Could your average gas fitter afford it. So who paid for the hire, if no money changed hands who owed whom a favour. And who found the gas fitter and handed him the keys. There seems so far a trio involved in that ensemble. The footballers agent, his son and a pilot who appears to have done all sorts of dare-does with puddle jumpers. Out of this trio who is the one who is in the know with aeroplanes, must be the dare-do puddle jumper bloke.
There was a time when jumping at any chance to fly and build up hours towards that left seat regular job made sense and offered an opportunity of a career change. I cannot in this instance how it would have made sense to a 59 year old. |
Originally Posted by Chronus
(Post 10379342)
How much does a PA46 piston cost to hire these days . More than a PA28 or a C152 I`d have thought. Could your average gas fitter afford it. So who paid for the hire, if no money changed hands who owed whom a favour. And who found the gas fitter and handed him the keys. There seems so far a trio involved in that ensemble. The footballers agent, his son and a pilot who appears to have done all sorts of dare-does with puddle jumpers. Out of this trio who is the one who is in the know with aeroplanes, must be the dare-do puddle jumper bloke.
There was a time when jumping at any chance to fly and build up hours towards that left seat regular job made sense and offered an opportunity of a career change. I cannot in this instance how it would have made sense to a 59 year old. |
When I first got an FAA 61.75 (in 1987) it was restricted to "day VFR only", even if I had a UK Night Qualification. Later the "day" restriction was lifted. I don't know if that showed on the accessable FAA database. He may have been FAA night legal.
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Originally Posted by Maoraigh1
(Post 10379377)
When I first got an FAA 61.75 (in 1987) it was restricted to "day VFR only", even if I had a UK Night Qualification. Later the "day" restriction was lifted. I don't know if that showed on the accessable FAA database. He may have been FAA night legal.
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Originally Posted by Above The Clouds
(Post 10379356)
I would hazard a guess for money as he is rumoured to have numerous CCJ's outstanding for debt.
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Originally Posted by Chronus
(Post 10379386)
If that`s the case, then it increases the likelihood someone else was paying for the hire of the aircraft, the fuel and landing charges. Cannot be certain about money for pilot services, I thought plumbers have been minting it ever since the property boom, you cannot get one for love or money. Makes me speculate, maybe he was offered the PA46 free if he would just turn up for 5 minutes and fix a leaky tap at that mansion of the agent mentioned at an earlier post.
The Daily Mail made a pretty futile attempt to discover ownership of the aircraft. Of course they were stonewalled by SAC. However the Daily Mail made a statement, as fact, that ownership was transferred to SAC from Cool Flourish Ltd. as well as speculating that Cool Flourish are still the owners. |
Aircraft found. Emiliano Sala: Missing Premier League footballer's plane found http://news.sky.com/story/emiliano-s...found-11627529 |
https://twitter.com/davidlmearns
Wreckage of the plane carrying Emiliano Sala and piloted by David Ibbotson was located early this morning by the FPV MORVEN. As agreed with the AAIB they moved the GEO OCEAN III over the position we provided them to visually identify the plane by ROV. https://twitter.com/hashtag/EmilianoSala?src=hash |
According to the BBC, AAIB teams have "moved into location at the site to recover the aircraft"
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Probably not. Unqualified pilot exceeding personal limitations in an airplane he may or may not have been familiar with in horrendous weather conditions. Back in the day when I was flying private jet charter we always had a sharp increase in requests when the airlines cancelled flights out of major hubs due to weather. So...Mr and Mrs Filthyrich please explain to me how you believe you should get on a (much) smaller plane and try and conquer the exact same weather conditions the airlines have cancelled for?! On rare occasions we could sneak in or out before or right after the weather system but mostly we said...no |
Originally Posted by srobarts
(Post 10379424)
David Mearns @davidlmearns 15m15 minutes ago
Wreckage of the plane carrying Emiliano Sala and piloted by David Ibbotson was located early this morning by the FPV MORVEN. As agreed with the AAIB they moved the GEO OCEAN III over the position we provided them to visually identify the plane by ROV. |
Originally Posted by double_barrel
(Post 10379679)
interesting that they appear totally confident that they have found it without any visual confirmation.
With the very small search area based on radar data it was to be expected to last one or two days only. More interesting, will they inspect or salvage? By seafarers tradition they would let the sea take care of the dead to rest in peace. |
I’m sure some people would like that happen CH, as there might be some very incriminating evidence on mobile phones. |
Chicken house
I thinkit is highly likely that the aircraft will be recovered, the high profile nature of the passenger and the dubious charter arrangements will put pressure on the authorities to fully investigate the circumstances. From a technical point of view it will be good to get an idea of the reasons the aircraft came to grief however I’m sure from a leagal point of view the charter arrangements will prove far more controversial. |
Heard on the news this morning (4th Feb) that an ROV has been down and confirmed the registration number, surprise was expressed they found it in big pieces, they were expecting a debris field. Also heard there was no sign of the occupants.
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Originally Posted by A and C
(Post 10379737)
I thinkit is highly likely that the aircraft will be recovered, the high profile nature of the passenger and the dubious charter arrangements will put pressure on the authorities to fully investigate the circumstances. From a technical point of view it will be good to get an idea of the reasons the aircraft came to grief however I’m sure from a leagal point of view the charter arrangements will prove far more controversial. So many real everyday heroes around us and we made such gamers gods ... Yes, I agree from a technical standpoint it will/would be interesting to evaluate the aircraft. I not sure a salvage is necessary for that, but it depends on the condition of the wreckage. Just hope they do not find out they left the aircraft after ditching, just to die in the waters. |
If no bodies spotted and a/c is in one piece as stated then chances are both got out maybe OK but the sea took them - very sad if that is the case
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Originally Posted by rog747
(Post 10379777)
If no bodies spotted and a/c is in one piece as stated then chances are both got out maybe OK but the sea took them - very sad if that is the case
Position reported for the wreckage spot on the DCT course line? |
Originally Posted by Pittsextra
(Post 10379294)
That way people who transgress can expect a consequence very many people know others who operate close to the wind and others find out usually when the tide has gone out and we read about it in an AAIB report. Ill leave you to read them for yourself however perhaps one start could be the warnings given about the man who died in his own AW139 in Norfolk. Why wasnt that dealt with years before?
This accident appears to be pretty much the opposite of the above, least of all in the crew suitability. In all three accidents the opportunity prior to flight, and with G-GH specifically once airborne, was there for the crew/crews to call halt, or ‘no go’ and they didn’t. I’ve had crews ‘refuse’ flight, always with good reason. That cost the operator significant amounts of money and a degree of difficulty and ‘embarrassment’ with the clients. No one died though. |
Originally Posted by ChickenHouse
(Post 10379789)
Given the stories of the pilot meandering, I somehow doubt he was able to correctly depressurize the cabin before an emergency ditching, am I thinking too bad?
Position reported for the wreckage spot on the DCT course line? |
I think pure coincidence...
Originally Posted by Above The Clouds
(Post 10379827)
The aircraft would not have been pressurised by the time it got to sea level with the engine at idle, it relies on the engine turbo charger system to pressurise it.
its not that simple. |
Originally Posted by S-Works
(Post 10379831)
its not that simple. |
Thought it was a non-pressurised model;;;;anyway would not be pressurised much,if any, at 5000 ft...
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So am I. And an Examiner. It was a pressurised Malibu |
Originally Posted by S-Works
(Post 10379851)
So am I. And an Examiner. . |
I'm not sure I've read anywhere that, 'there were no signs of the occupants'. The opposite in fact, AAIB quotes 'one body is visible'. That, of course doesn't mean there aren't two.
BBC: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-47118340 |
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Originally Posted by Above The Clouds
(Post 10379866)
So then you know that having the pressurisation controller set at 500 feet above the airfield elevation of departure would mean once the aircraft was descending towards SL and below 500 feet give or take variations in local pressure altitude that the hull should be de-pressurized below 500 feet or have very little pressure remaining in the hull, bar the squat switch not being activated as the gear was probably up for the ditching would leave a very minor positive pressure in the hull.
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The door seems open?
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