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-   -   Cardiff City Footballer Feared Missing after aircraft disappeared near Channel Island (https://www.pprune.org/accidents-close-calls/617514-cardiff-city-footballer-feared-missing-after-aircraft-disappeared-near-channel-island.html)

runway30 25th Jan 2019 20:17


Originally Posted by dsc810 (Post 10370810)
Well we know he was a plumber and gas repairer.
A check of his plumbing business (if I have the right one!) gives the Gas Safe register number as 195505
Check the Gas safe register gives his full initials as David A Ibbotson
Its also gives his full contact and address details which I shall not repeat on here but it matches the address given in the media generally.
I then check the UK's freebmd births marriage,deaths index to get his birth and that comes up in the search range of 1958 to 1960 with only one David A Ibbotson born in the UK and that entry is for the December quarter of 1959 in Cleethorpes meaning he was born in Oct, Nov or Dec of 1959.
The indexes at that time only gave the date to the nearest quarter: - you can't do this thing with common names like John smith as there are too many of them to differentiate the right one each quarter.
So there is most likely your answer....

This man has a family who are grieving so personally I think it is wrong to go delving into his life away from Aviation. Please have some respect for the recently deceased.

DaveReidUK 25th Jan 2019 20:33


Originally Posted by clareprop (Post 10370778)
Speculation is one thing but personally, I feel this thread is getting a bit free and easy with some peoples names who have not been mentioned in the investigation or indeed in the press.

A fair point.

But if the Malibu had been a G-registered one, we wouldn't be having this discussion as the owner details would be in the public domain.

Instead, it's registered in the US in such a way as to obscure the beneficial owner's identity (even if that wasn't necessarily the main reason for doing so).

DaveReidUK 25th Jan 2019 20:37


Originally Posted by Tomahawk53 (Post 10370820)
The PA28 I fly has a Mode S transponder...sometimes the flights show up on FR24...sometimes they don't.

Does it have ADS-B, though ?

If it doesn't, then tracking it is considerably more difficult for FR24. Even if it does, it will only be tracked if you fly within line-of-sight of someone with a receiver that's feeding FR24 at that point in time.

runway30 25th Jan 2019 20:39


Originally Posted by dalgetty (Post 10370801)
DH claims he hasn't been to Nantes for a year. The French authorities swear that a Flightplan was opened in his name and that his ID was used in the airport.
Perhaps all of the above is true, but then why was DI using DH's identity?
And why did he then change his mind once the flight was delayed until evening?

Dalgetty, you know what you are suggesting goes way past just illegal into criminal?

Eutychus 25th Jan 2019 20:47


Originally Posted by dalgetty (Post 10370801)
why was DI using DH's identity?

There is no suggestion of this in the Ouest-France article previously linked to


sa pièce d’identité a été contrôlée à l’aéroport de Nantes, lundi 21 janvier, le jour du départ de l’avion, au même titre que celles d’Emiliano Sala et David Ibbotson.
"[Henderson]'s ID card was checked at Nantes airport on Monday January 21st, the day on which the aircraft departed, as were those of Emiliano Sala and David Ibbotson"

runway30 25th Jan 2019 20:49


Originally Posted by clareprop (Post 10370778)
Speculation is one thing but personally, I feel this thread is getting a bit free and easy with some peoples names who have not been mentioned in the investigation or indeed in the press.

Are you thinking that we should not be identifying the Director of Cool Flourish Ltd? I haven’t seen it but several people have seen her identified on a database together with the aircraft. I think it is an important part of the story to know how the aircraft was booked and whether it was booked by the client/pilot/3rd party and only the aircraft owner can say that and say if the pilot’s qualifications were checked?

helimutt 25th Jan 2019 20:52

very often, you might have a computer program and it has flight plans on it. You tend to keep old flight plans so that if you do the same flight or similar, its just a case of filling in a few details and times etc. You fill in a box with the name of the pilot. Maybe he just neglected to change it. Maybe it was a rush job at the time and he didn't notice. Maybe he asked DH to fill the FP in for him?? We don't know any of the real facts as yet so better not to speculate too much. Speculation is fair and reasonable if reigned in, but starting to say things like using another identity? Maybe not the right thing to be posting.

Tomahawk53 25th Jan 2019 20:53


Originally Posted by DaveReidUK (Post 10370831)
Does it have ADS-B, though ?

If it doesn't, then tracking it is considerably more difficult for FR24. Even if it does, it will only be tracked if you fly within line-of-sight of someone with a receiver that's feeding FR24 at that point in time.

Nope....just Mode S....and thanks for FR24 explanation...makes sense.

runway30 25th Jan 2019 20:55


Originally Posted by Eutychus (Post 10370839)
There is no suggestion of this in the Ouest-France article previously linked to


"[Henderson]'s ID card was checked at Nantes airport on Monday January 21st, the day on which the aircraft departed, as were those of Emiliano Sala and David Ibbotson"

However, the only way to reconcile the statement of David Henderson and the statement of the airport is that his ID was in Nantes but he wasn’t.

dalgetty 25th Jan 2019 20:56

The thing is, either:

1. DH is telling the truth, he wasn't at Nantes - but his ID was presented there, and a flight plan was filed with his name on it.
or
2. DH is not telling the truth, when he said that he hasn't been there for over a year.

Whichever of the above is true, it makes me feel uneasy.

DaiGarrett 25th Jan 2019 21:06

And he is the most linked with the a/c so he must know more than he is letting on, why else delete his FB account ?

Luc Lion 25th Jan 2019 21:14

I believe this conversation derails on the cost sharing / wingly side.
There is no sign whatever indicating that the doomed flight was a cost sharing one.
There are indications that the agent mentioned above (McKay?) had access to the plane and that he had used the services of DI in the past for other private flights.
I don't think any individual in this sad story had problem facing the operating cost of this flight and I think it is very likely that the whole operating cost was taken by the flight organiser.
If my guesses are true, it's a genuine private flight.
It may be that the pilot was not properly licenced, but that's another issue.
The real issues that led to a disaster are how the flight was planned and conducted.

And for all these anathema on cost sharing, I think that most ordinary people have no idea that they can fly on a small airplane through some car-sharing schema.
Mr and Mrs Smith rightly think that cheap air travel is with low-cost airlines.
I think that most putative passengers looking for flights on wingly are attracted by the adventurous scent of flying in small airplanes.
Further, these activities are not taking any business away from air-taxi companies : regular air-taxi customers will never put their live at risk in a wingly flight and they have the money for professional air-taxis.

So, please leave aside this hysteria about cost sharing models and come back to this private flight that went fatally wrong.

Luc Lion 25th Jan 2019 21:21


Originally Posted by helimutt (Post 10370846)
very often, you might have a computer program and it has flight plans on it. You tend to keep old flight plans so that if you do the same flight or similar, its just a case of filling in a few details and times etc. You fill in a box with the name of the pilot. Maybe he just neglected to change it. Maybe it was a rush job at the time and he didn't notice. Maybe he asked DH to fill the FP in for him?? We don't know any of the real facts as yet so better not to speculate too much. Speculation is fair and reasonable if reigned in, but starting to say things like using another identity? Maybe not the right thing to be posting.

I don't think so.
You are not flying a single piston engine aircraft in bad weather, at night, in winter, over open sea, without a serious flight preparation, unless you are a reckless pilot.
This airplane had the potential for flying on top of the weather.

dsc810 25th Jan 2019 21:22


Originally Posted by runway30 (Post 10370821)
This man has a family who are grieving so personally I think it is wrong to go delving into his life away from Aviation. Please have some respect for the recently deceased.

What - you mean stuff like according to the press he has 4 unsatisfied county court judgements against him which he has not paid.
To get their exact details I'd need to pay to access the CCJ register so I can't be bothered.
All such matters are useful background to possibly add to why exactly he was doing this flight....and why you might have avoided him at all costs.

Anyway......to the a/c ownership
Here are the companies house details for Cool Flourish Ltd the supposed real owner of the a/c behind the trusteeship according to a previous post on here supplying info taken from an unnamed USA source
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/03503845
Exactly what they "do" is uncertain
I note that in 2007 the annual accounts says their Golden Eagle a/c was damaged the previous year.
Directors are Ms F Keely and Ms H Keely
Cool Flourish Ltd certainly owned G-FAVS from 2012 to 2017
Ms F is a chartered accountant which checks out on the ACA register and appears to have a PPL from weblinks found elsewhere

flash8 25th Jan 2019 21:24

Unfortunately the vast majority of people could not tell the difference between a 100hr TT PPL and an ex FJ 20K TT heavy Captain. to them they are a "pilot" and they make the assumption that a "pilot" can fly anything, ignorance is breathtaking.

That apparently this guy had a (possibly FAA) PPL without an IR (or even IMC), no night rating and was flying SEP in bad weather with icing at night... FFS rather him than me... but taking somebody along with him.... well out of order.

Sorry, no matter how this turns out pretty obvious this flight should not have taken place in those circumstances.

Luc Lion 25th Jan 2019 21:30

flash8, we don't know the licence details of the pilot.
That will be investigated by the AAIB.
Other people here have shown that public licence databases cannot be trusted to be comprehensive.

runway30 25th Jan 2019 21:35


Originally Posted by mryan75 (Post 10370760)

It so blatantly obvious how many non-pilots there are on what is supposed to be a professional pilots' forum.

Well I don’t know how you do it in NY but every time I have hired an aircraft I have had to show

1) Licence
2) Log book
3) Have a check ride
4) The owner has wanted to know what I will be doing so that I don’t invalidate their insurance
5) There has been a discrete phone call to my home airfield

I wouldn’t have it any other way

Good Business Sense 25th Jan 2019 22:04


Originally Posted by Luc Lion (Post 10370876)
I believe this conversation derails on the cost sharing / wingly side.
There is no sign whatever indicating that the doomed flight was a cost sharing one.
There are indications that the agent mentioned above (McKay?) had access to the plane and that he had used the services of DI in the past for other private flights.
I don't think any individual in this sad story had problem facing the operating cost of this flight and I think it is very likely that the whole operating cost was taken by the flight organiser.
If my guesses are true, it's a genuine private flight.
It may be that the pilot was not properly licenced, but that's another issue.
The real issues that led to a disaster are how the flight was planned and conducted.

And for all these anathema on cost sharing, I think that most ordinary people have no idea that they can fly on a small airplane through some car-sharing schema.
Mr and Mrs Smith rightly think that cheap air travel is with low-cost airlines.
I think that most putative passengers looking for flights on wingly are attracted by the adventurous scent of flying in small airplanes.
Further, these activities are not taking any business away from air-taxi companies : regular air-taxi customers will never put their live at risk in a wingly flight and they have the money for professional air-taxis.

So, please leave aside this hysteria about cost sharing models and come back to this private flight that went fatally wrong.

No...... unfortunately you are wrong on so many counts. GA AOCs are closing.

OwnNav 25th Jan 2019 22:09

Surprised they were not ramp checked, the French authorities seemed to be super keen on N reg aircraft originating from UK a while back. All documents checked albeit for VAT purposes mainly I thought.

Good Business Sense 25th Jan 2019 22:13


Unfortunately the vast majority of people could not tell the difference between a 100hr TT PPL and an ex FJ 20K TT heavy Captain. to them they are a "pilot" and they make the assumption that a "pilot" can fly anything, ignorance is breathtaking.
100% correct - You only have to read the Wingly "reviews" ......... which appear to be written by the same person ..... all read exactly the same including for the 60 hour, 4 hours on type, highly experienced, knowledgeable, excellent pilot ..... says passenger Tom from Birmingham (Uber style)


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