BirdStrike opens Cargo Door!
 

Hi All...AFAIK this situation here depicted its pretty rare and in my humbleness i thought that it was almost impossible to happen...but in fact yesterday it happened:eek:

After a "strong" BS that affected both engines, an A320 Of SATA-Azores on the TO climb from Madeira to CPH, the front cargo hold door opened due to the mighty impact, with lots of blood around the handle-opening area...

The skillfully crew managed to land imediately the plane with both engines affected, and Cargo Door opened, after a very short flight of 2 minutes and 50 seconds...!

So my question, if anyone here could give a glimpse or tech explanation, how could a Cargo Hold door open in flight because of a BS?
Even the assimetric-engine trepidation could led to that specific situation, but in a modern Airbus, i think its more than unusual...any similar incidents in the past?

Cheers and Tanx...:cool:

any factual data for us to consider? or just an extremely unlikely possibility?

Did the pilot file a report confirming the facts and were these facts yet confirmed by maintenance?

i have no idear how a bird strike could open the front cargo door on a A320 as there is a flap you have to push in to get hold of the handle. to open the door you first have to pull the handle then twist or on newer A320 pull the handle towards you which opens the door a few inches. there is a switch under the belly behind a door that you then have to press to open the door fully.

not sure how the bird could hit the cargo door at such a speed or at all as to damage it enought to make the door open from the impact would have thought air flow round the front of the aircraft would deflect the bird

Quite obviously, the aircraft would still need to be on the ground for the bird to accomplish all of that.

http://planesandstuff.b logspot.com/2011/06/satas-birdstrike.html

But not much help. (take out the space in b logspot)

Think we should be swapping one type of BS for another :ok:

Hi,
I'm still not aware of any pic of the landing but several people from several airport operations areas confirmed the situation of the open door.
It wasn't wide-open but it was open...

No one from the local regular spotters were around (at least with a camera) but beeing one of the busiest days at LPMA, probably some pics have been taken. Let's hope they became public, soon...

The incident first report of the event made by Portuguese Investigation Authorities (GPIAA) was released.
It's in Portuguese and it's just a small description of the events:

http://www.gpiaa.gov.pt/tempfiles/20...42318moptc.pdf

but confirms to whoever had any doubts on the cargo open door.

GPIAA (Portugese Accident Investigation Board) Press Release
 

http://www.gpiaa.gov.pt/tempfiles/20...42318moptc.pdf

The relevant sentence, courtesy of Google Translate, reads...

the control tower informed the crew that the door of the front cargo hold is found open, which was confirmed by the indications in the cockpit (MACE).

Not surprisingly the last sentence reads...

the event was classified as a serious incident and the Director of GPIAA determined the opening of an investigation of an incident.

That must have been one clever bird, it must have pushed the flap in and lifted the handle to disengage the hook locks ......

Hmmm! A flock of seagulls apparently. Must've been a rather large flock. I suppose if you batter a plane with enough seagulls at sufficient speed then you'll do a lot of damage. :oh:

Also, another sentence states the fact that the landing was made with a weight exceeding the maximum weight for landings

(ALM of 68.100kgs for 64.500kgs of MLM)

well it was either that of the serious possibility of a "bath" in the ocean...

Just to had that the Capt. is a local one and probably one of the Captains with more landings at Madeira...

Hmmm, a take-off alternate is required for all FNC departures. Not sure I'd want to return to FNC over MLW, but with PXO currently at reduced LDA it was perhaps the best option (TFN being 314 nm away).

I am not familiar with the A320 cargo door operating system but most large aircraft have no power to the system in flight making it almost impossible for the door to open in flight if locked before departure.

Shall we discount the bird factor as secondary event (hardly an area of the fuselage that bird strikes are likely) and look at how the aircraft was dispatched with a cargo door in an unsafe position!

Posted on avherald.com
 

I'm not sure if Simon Hradecky is joking, but he reports:

Incident: SATA A320 at Funchal on Jun 20th 2011, flock of birds ingested by both engines, bird strike opens forward cargo door

BS
 

Aeromech3,
are you implying that the birdstrike activated the open cargo door warning which was obviously faulty or that the crew ignored this and took off regardless and were fortunate that the bird strikes necessitated an immediate RTB?

Methinks Occam's razor applies unless proven otherwise.

The cargo door handle was with blood and remains of a bird...
Pretty curious that in all flights that was the one that the ground personel left the door handle in the wrong position....

An English version of the quick report of GPIAA is now available:

http://www.gpiaa.gov.pt/tempfiles/20...73919moptc.pdf

I remember years ago, when the company fleet were 737-200's one had a birdstrike on take-off, the resulting surge managed to somehow thump the fwd cargo door enough to give a door warning, but it didn't open fully. The surge was also enough to break 3 of the 4 bolts holding the JT8 nose cone on.....

Even more interesting Momoe from the English translation. The aircraft had just rotated and so its forward surfaces and engines would feel the impact of the birds at about V2 velocity. The engines suffered typical bird ingestion damage and if the aircraft had been a prop jet, then some bird parts might have been centrifuged towards the side of the fuselage and these then might have had enough energy to cause deformation in a cargo door area; birds ricocheting off the nose landing gear might have hit the lower fuselage but IMHO I don't see birds having enough tangential speed of there own to cause the cargo door handle to misplace.
The replies from those BM's, whom I take it as having operated A320 cargo doors, seem to point to the bird impact being secondary to the door lever being in the wrong positioned.
Perhaps a BM could advise how obvious the ECAM message alerts the crew, when it was obviously open to the Tower?

wow 20 posts and no METAR posted, no French bashing, no FAA bashing, no Boeing Vs. Airbus, and no-one's brought up Ryanair.


Standards are slipping i tell ya !

Reading the report it appears that the tower noticed the open cargo door as the acft was taxiing back in, ECAM message would have been recorded so we just need to know the timeframe and whether the ECAM message is generated by the door opening or the latch in the wrong position (or both).

Clearly the investigators played "Angry Birds" a bit too much.
No mentioning of that in their report...:)

CS-TKJ made this morning the tests after repairs and looks like it's ready to get back in "business".

As for the cargo door question...belive in whatever in want...this is pretty full of experts who haven't been there...
Some stuff never happens until the first time...

I think Aeromech has hit the nail on the head. The cargo door was never closed properly in the first place, and the crew failed to spot the indication. A bird strike would happen with a forward facing impact, not at the angle on the side of the fuselage that the doors are located, unless the aircraft was flying sideways at the same speed it was travelling forward !

For those of us who have never operated the handle on an A320 cargo door, does anyone have a picture of one of those suckers, including the area of the edge of the door.
Bird guts extruded under pressure of an impact can exert a lot of force and if there is something (like a handle release mechanism) that can be acted on by that force below the skin, then stuff can happen.

As for hitting a specific point on the fuselage, like a handle, when a strike happens blood and guts stream back a long way in the slipstream covering quite a large area. These are some photos from a friend of mine flying a 738 out of Humberside last year. What a mess they make.

http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/r...pria/birds.jpg

Considering the Cargo door operating mechanism......tough to believe ;)

Finally some pics on the landing.
A foreign spotter, on the right place, at the right time, sent me a few pics on the landing, where it's possible to see the open cargo door.

Check:
http://planesandstuff.********.com/2...irdstrike.html

Seems this forum S/W is messing with URLs. You will have to figure out where that link points. The photos are there anyway. If not faked they appear to show door fully open on approach.

Looks like indeed the forum is messing up with links and also with the links of the img, from the blog...just replace the ***** to "blog spot" (with no space)....

planesandstuff.********.com/2011/08/cs-tkj-landing-of-birdstrike.html

For the trust of the pics I only can answer for what was sent to me...
I checked the pics and the exif info on the pics...it seemed right...

Anyway, many people on the airport stated about the open doors, with no pics...The "experts" here just doubted anyone talking about the open door because it never happened... a first is the first......

Regarding the fact that it was the birdstrike or it was badly closed...will let that for the GPIAA report to decide.....

http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/1781/dsc5557.jpg

http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/4625/dsc5557a.jpg

I have no Photo Technics master's degree, so i really cannot express if its fake or not, but at least, quite interesting to see...:rolleyes:

I think that the explanation for this incident lies in the msn for this airframe: 795. In all probability it has the aft rotating handles which have now been replaced by upward rotating handles on the enhanced 320 family.
How much force actually is required to open the handle with one swing is something I don't know as we don't have the older models, but I think it can't be far beyond 25 lbs of force, once the doormechanism opens beyond a certain point, pressurisation will do the rest for sure.

Interesting to note that the airfield concerned had a fixed ultrasonic bird scaring system which is completely useless and has been proven as such therefore no big surprise the birds were on the runway waiting :ugh:

I have seen remains a Starling wedged firmly between the door and sill of a 757 front hold door many years ago which I would of expected to have glanced down the fuselage after being stuck.

First class job by the crew and credit to Airbus as well :D

I agree with the description of operation of the cargo holds I still have a tech manual here somewhere and there is no way on gods green earth a bird of any size can cause the door to open. Sounds to me like the hydraulics were operated by the belly handle and the door was closed but not latched by the handle mechanism beside the cargo door itself..
Interestingly... why would the crew not have caught this during pre takeoff as the door unsafe light and lack of pressurization would have been a factor!?!?:ok:

Could this be two unrelated incidents? I know the odds of this happening are quite high, but the could cargo door opening incident not be related to the birdstrike?

Ten years on and the full final report on this incident at FNC has now been issued by the Portuguese authorities. Included is this, confirming a direct hit, by a bird, on forward cargo door handle recess, seemingly causing the door to open as the aircraft departed.

''Examination of the forward cargo door revealed pronounced blood smear on the surface skin just aft of the handle flap. There was also evidence of blood inside the handle recess, within the door structure (Figure 4). There was no visible damage to the door and no luggage items had ejected the cargo hold (Figure 4)...'

GPIAAF – Unidade de Aviação Civil