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Another Southwest close call

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Another Southwest close call

Old 15th Jun 2024, 11:06
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Another Southwest close call

https://www.staradvertiser.com/2024/...-investigated/

Any comments ?
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Old 15th Jun 2024, 11:31
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Originally Posted by markkal
Comments? It’s tiring reading “accident reports” written by people who don’t have any knowledge of aviation.

I appreciate that that write-up was not meant for a technically knowledgeable audience, but it reeks of alarmist clickbait.
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Old 15th Jun 2024, 13:47
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My thoughts exactly
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Old 15th Jun 2024, 14:29
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Well the least, would be back to the sim for the FO and a review of the Captain flying with junior ratings!
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Old 15th Jun 2024, 18:04
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I found no data for this flight in ADS-B exchange but I did find it in Flight Aware - https://www.flightaware.com/live/fli...427Z/PHNL/PHLI


Last edited by EXDAC; 17th Jun 2024 at 10:58.
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Old 15th Jun 2024, 18:59
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Didn't we have a 777 take a header off Maui recently? Should pilots flying in proximity to HI have Special certification?

Last edited by BugBear; 15th Jun 2024 at 19:33.
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Old 15th Jun 2024, 19:25
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Originally Posted by BugBear
Didn't we have a 777 take a header off Maui recently? Should pilots flying in proximity to HI have. Special certification?
Yes, UA B777 on take-off. Cannot think of a more benign environment, so no.
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Old 15th Jun 2024, 19:29
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They were aware that most aircraft were going around on the approach. They briefed to expect to go around. Minimums are high, around 1000 feet. They executed or attempted to execute the go around. Fo stated as he followed the throttles up he pushed forward on the yoke. As he saw the speed building he retarded the throttles. They reached 238 knots at flaps 15 and descended to 400’ AGL before they reversed the descent and started climbing reaching a peak climb rate of 8500 FPM and busting the missed approach altitude by 700’.
One interesting thing in the report is that in the middle of all this the FO attempted to reengage the autopilot. It of course would not engage. This is common in many third world countries when things are going south in a hurry but less common in Europe and the US. The massive Covid hiring in the US led to airlines grabbing anyone with a pulse and some claim even a bit of grave robbing!
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Old 15th Jun 2024, 19:35
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If Southwest Airlines Flight 2786 near Lihue Airport,
Original leak of the memo:
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Old 15th Jun 2024, 20:06
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FO briefed the go around.

So the pic briefed the go around into Kaui.
Shouldn't the go around be burned into the brain, and brief the landing?
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Old 15th Jun 2024, 20:15
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Somatogravic Illusion redux? 23 hour layovers often mean arrive tired and depart with the worst of timezone change and only one good sleep.

Sims are good, but not THAT good for true inner ear illusions. Gotta stay on that ADI/PFD, and assuming it is in the proper mode, the flight director.

I teach EET/UPRT, different plane, different airline.
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Old 15th Jun 2024, 20:26
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Why would a briefed missed approach result in task saturation? Shouldn't this be routine for a qualified and current crew? What was unusual about this missed approach before the unintended descent?
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Old 15th Jun 2024, 20:55
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EXDAC

"What was unusual about this missed approach before the unintended descent?"

Because his/her eyes were outside the cockpit? Because instead of instruments, FO was flying on butt cheeks? As above, ∆ ...
The a/c was below minimums before executing missed? Pushing the Nose down before power came up? Was this a MAX.
An MCAS deal?

Quote



Last edited by BugBear; 15th Jun 2024 at 21:07.
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Old 15th Jun 2024, 22:43
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Not related to MCAS
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Old 15th Jun 2024, 23:41
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I don’t know how the Boeing works but usually at my Airbus operator we keep the A/P engaged until we’re fully visual, so we can keep our workload low and reduce the margin for error for something as demanding as a go around… food for thought maybe seeing as keeping the automatics in probably would’ve avoided this whole situation?
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Old 16th Jun 2024, 00:34
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Not really sure what the technical mystery is here.

The less-experienced first officer “inadvertently” pushed forward on the control column while following [guarding] movement of the thrust lever caused by the plane’s automatic throttle. The pilot then cut the speed [should probably read "thrust"], causing the airplane to descend [even more].
As to "briefing the go-around," that just sounds to me like the PIC briefed the landing - and noted in that briefing that, given conditions, to expect a high likelihood of a GA.

​​​​​​​It is called "situational awareness."
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Old 16th Jun 2024, 01:38
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Originally Posted by Sailvi767
They were aware that most aircraft were going around on the approach. They briefed to expect to go around. Minimums are high, around 1000 feet.
I'm not used to reading RNP approach plates but there seem to be two DA with the lower one requiring a specified minimum climb gradient. Would this aircraft have been unable to meet the 350 ft per NM required for DA 663?

ref https://www.flightaware.com/resource...)+Z+RWY+21/pdf
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Old 16th Jun 2024, 01:48
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They were doing the RNAV to 17.
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Old 16th Jun 2024, 02:29
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Originally Posted by Sailvi767
They were doing the RNAV to 17.
Ok, thanks.
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Old 16th Jun 2024, 06:34
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Originally Posted by Exdac
Would this aircraft have been unable to meet the 350 ft per NM required for DA 663?
Given they ended up doing 8500fpm UP, the answer to that question is Yes (350ft/nm at 3nm/minute = 1050ft/min climb rate...)

Initial takeaways from this event include the importance of creating a shared mental model of the approach and any missed approach...
Seriously? How about making sure your effos can fly a missed approach properly and your captains have the brains to take over at any point without worrying about upsetting the other crew member. I wonder if the SMS says "don't let pilot's stick and rudder skills atrophy".

Well done to the crew for ASAPing.
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