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What on Earth is going on in Mumbai?

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What on Earth is going on in Mumbai?

Old 8th Jun 2024, 21:21
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What on Earth is going on in Mumbai?



IndiGo A320 touching down on runway 27 just seconds after Air India rotates shortly ahead of it. What’s going on here? Love to hear people’s thoughts and experiences.

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Old 9th Jun 2024, 06:36
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I thought for a moment I was looking at Gatwick ...
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Old 9th Jun 2024, 08:47
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Clearly 1000ft separation...
Vertical-horizontal.....tomayto-tomaahto
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Old 9th Jun 2024, 09:22
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Possibly left at the discretion of the Indigo to continue or go around. I personally witnessed a very similar incident at Las Vegas a good many years ago. In that particular case the landing aircraft elected to go around just prior to touchdown as the departing was only just rotating. With the landing aircraft putting power on to go-around, separation was further reduced until it turned away. I photographed the event. Must see if I can find that slide. EDIT: Found it. It was at LAS in May 1987, featuring a departing (and heavy) Total Air L-1011 Tristar (N701TT) and a SWA B737.

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Old 9th Jun 2024, 09:30
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A case of “……..expect late landing clearance”?
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Old 9th Jun 2024, 09:49
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O. M. G.
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Old 9th Jun 2024, 11:06
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Can you get a land after clearance in India? The camera shortens the distance a lot I suspect.
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Old 10th Jun 2024, 01:49
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An Indigo Airbus A320-200N, registration VT-ISV performing flight 6E-5053 from Indore to Mumbai (India), was cleared to land on Mumbai's runway 27.
At the same time an Air India Airbus A320-200N, registration VT-RTS performing flight AI-657 from Mumbai to Thiruvananthapuram (India), was cleared to line up runway 27 and subsequently for takeoff.

[snip]

India's DGCA opened an investigation and de-rostered an Air Traffic Controller.
AV Herald report here: https://avherald.com/h?article=519ac9a1&opt=0
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Old 10th Jun 2024, 05:56
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Could the professionals of the forum (I'm not one) help me understand the thought/decision-making process of the landing crew? Judging by the photo, visibility seems OK – unlike, for instance the Fedex/SW Austin incident, so they must've been fully aware of the departing traffic. Apparently they must've considered it safer to land – being ready for a go-around, assumingly – rather than go around right away. Yet, what if the departing traffic had rejected?

Last edited by DeflatingVest; 10th Jun 2024 at 05:58. Reason: typo
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Old 10th Jun 2024, 07:08
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Originally Posted by DeflatingVest
Could the professionals of the forum (I'm not one) help me understand the thought/decision-making process of the landing crew? Judging by the photo, visibility seems OK – unlike, for instance the Fedex/SW Austin incident, so they must've been fully aware of the departing traffic. Apparently they must've considered it safer to land – being ready for a go-around, assumingly – rather than go around right away. Yet, what if the departing traffic had rejected?
When you are visual and can easily judge the closing distance with the departing traffic, it may have been a judgement call that the likelihood of saving the day by going around and avoiding a crash on the runway in the event they rejected TO was much lower than exacerbating a dangerous situation by remaining in the air up the arse of them with a tower controller who had clearly lost situational awareness.

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Old 10th Jun 2024, 08:15
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It is likely that as soon as the landing crew saw the rotation they calculated that both the separation distance was increasing and RTO was off the table. Continuing would have been the safer option than a GA.
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Old 10th Jun 2024, 08:24
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If you take the unnecessary hysteria out of the title and let pilots actually do what they do best, is there really anything to actually see here?
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Old 10th Jun 2024, 08:35
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Originally Posted by richardthethird
If you take the unnecessary hysteria out of the title and let pilots actually do what they do best, is there really anything to actually see here?
It illustrates severely diminishing safety margins by ATC and the pilots in the Indigo aircraft.

A go around should have been made by the Indigo aircraft (probably after being called out by the tower) one or two nautical miles earlier. At the time of the start of the video, it was no longer an option as a go around would have made the situation worse by creating an airborne conflict.
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Old 10th Jun 2024, 08:48
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Wondering if the landing Indigo, did the long landing (outside the TDZ) on purpose in order to wait for the aircraft taking off to be airborne.
If so, it's even more dangerous!
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Old 10th Jun 2024, 09:29
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Basically the major factor ( not the only one ) as in Austin is again the same , a delayed take off.
The aircraft entered the runway at 00:44:18Z, was lined up with the runway centerline at 00:44:43Z and accelerated through 30 knots over ground at 00:45:14Z.
Would be interested is listening to the R/T on that one to see if the controller used the word " expedite" and gave distance of the one on finals when issuing the T/O clearance.
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Old 10th Jun 2024, 10:17
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Originally Posted by richardthethird
If you take the unnecessary hysteria out of the title and let pilots actually do what they do best, is there really anything to actually see here?
Yea…there is.
Same as with the FedEx/Southwest incident where the FedEx went around. Difference being they were in IMC.

Three parties at fault here.
ATC for their clearance with insufficient separation, the crew for lining up with insufficient separation and the crew not going around with <2 miles and and aircraft lining up.
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Old 10th Jun 2024, 11:57
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Originally Posted by ATC Watcher
Basically the major factor ( not the only one ) as in Austin is again the same , a delayed take off.

Would be interested is listening to the R/T on that one to see if the controller used the word " expedite" and gave distance of the one on finals when issuing the T/O clearance.
The Avherald report indicates a landing clearance was given first, and then the takeoff clearance. If India works on the European sterile runway model (anyone know?) then this is a major controller error, possibly compounded by the departing crew acting on the takeoff clearance. If they use the US model of non sterile runway clearances then it does have a great deal of similarity to AUS.
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Old 10th Jun 2024, 14:03
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Originally Posted by DeflatingVest
Could the professionals of the forum (I'm not one) help me understand the thought/decision-making process of the landing crew? Judging by the photo, visibility seems OK – unlike, for instance the Fedex/SW Austin incident, so they must've been fully aware of the departing traffic. Apparently they must've considered it safer to land – being ready for a go-around, assumingly – rather than go around right away. Yet, what if the departing traffic had rejected?
Once the departing aircraft reaches V1 it is safe for the arriving aircraft to land.
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Old 10th Jun 2024, 14:23
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Originally Posted by B2N2
Three parties at fault here.
ATC for their clearance with insufficient separation, the crew for lining up with insufficient separation and the crew not going around with <2 miles and and aircraft lining up.
I would suggest that no party was at "fault"! A situation developed and was safely handled. Only alarmists will want to see anything else!
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Old 10th Jun 2024, 14:41
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Originally Posted by smith
Once the departing aircraft reaches V1 it is safe for the arriving aircraft to land.
How is the landing aircraft supposed to know that the departing aircraft has reached V1?
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