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What on Earth is going on in Mumbai?

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What on Earth is going on in Mumbai?

Old 10th Jun 2024, 17:13
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Is it not "the departing aircraft hs crossed the upwind end of the runway"?
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Old 10th Jun 2024, 17:24
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Would 'Wake Turbulence' affect the aircraft landing, especially if the aircraft taking off is heavy?
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Old 10th Jun 2024, 18:18
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Originally Posted by Nil by mouth
Would 'Wake Turbulence' affect the aircraft landing, especially if the aircraft taking off is heavy?
no. Wake isnít generated at a high level until the aircraft rotates, and itís medium behind a medium.

Canít tell when V1 is but once the aircraft rotates it is by definition above V1
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Old 10th Jun 2024, 18:24
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Originally Posted by AirScotia
How is the landing aircraft supposed to know that the departing aircraft has reached V1?
I was being facetious
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Old 10th Jun 2024, 18:40
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The point of non return for ATC is at 2 miles, maybe 1nm if you're really desperate. To let it develop to this stage means there is no "control" - the controller is just a spectator hoping for the best.

At least it wasn't in fog like Austin.
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Old 10th Jun 2024, 23:59
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Originally Posted by mike current
The point of non return for ATC is at 2 miles, maybe 1nm if you're really desperate. To let it develop to this stage means there is no "control" - the controller is just a spectator hoping for the best.

At least it wasn't in fog like Austin.
Thank you.
Half the posters on this thread only fly heavy jets on Microsoft FS judging by their answers
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Old 11th Jun 2024, 01:09
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A handful of personal opinions here that follow the Ďno harm doneí mantra or similar. But here are my two pennies. There are still minimum separation criteria to maintain. If either of these aircraft experienced an abnormal situation ie rejected take-off or baulked landing then this could have ended rather different. Easy to look back at footage and see the aircraft ahead take off and think the threat is gone but as pilots you need to be ahead of the aircraft at all times. And in the case of the aircraft landing ahead, I canít imagine the crew being Ďaheadí of the aircraft by more than a second or two, if at all. Things would have been happening very fast in this scenario. If the aircraft ahead rejected, unless their comms were almost instantaneous then from the position of the landing aircraft it would have taken a few seconds - that they didnít have - to establish that. With time and space comes options, and I think in this situation ATC and the crews here have whittled away their options to a razor thin margin which thankfully on the day was just enough.
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Old 11th Jun 2024, 08:32
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And if the landing aircraft suddenly feels the needs to make a very late GA at around the point of its touchdown, what would the wake turbulence be like as it was climbing out, given how close behind the departing aircraft it would be?
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Old 11th Jun 2024, 08:56
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Originally Posted by B2N2
Thank you.
Half the posters on this thread only fly heavy jets on Microsoft FS judging by their answers
And Mike Current is considered an expert by you? Have we heard the ATC tapes? Do we know what was said? Was the Indigo given the option to make his own decision? Finally, this is India and not the UK. Perhaps different criteria exist.
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Old 11th Jun 2024, 13:39
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Originally Posted by FUMR
And Mike Current is considered an expert by you? Have we heard the ATC tapes? Do we know what was said? Was the Indigo given the option to make his own decision? Finally, this is India and not the UK. Perhaps different criteria exist.
You're right. We don't have all the facts. On that basis, this whole thread has no reason to exist, not just my post.
As well as a large part of pprune.

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Old 11th Jun 2024, 13:54
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Originally Posted by FUMR
Finally, this is India and not the UK. Perhaps different criteria exist.
Thatís not a perhaps thatís a certainty.
You can buy a job, pad your logbook and at random times burst out in coordinated song and dance.

Anyone who doesnít see a problem with what occurred does not belong in a transport category aircraft.
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Old 11th Jun 2024, 14:03
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An update to this is that the ATC concerned with this has been suspended and an investigation launched.

https://www.aerotime.aero/articles/a...mumbai-airport

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/asia...runway-4398921
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Old 11th Jun 2024, 19:35
  #33 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by BonnieLass
An update to this is that the ATC concerned with this has been suspended and an investigation launched.1
Suspending staff after an incident is standard safety procedure everywhere nowadays , it does not imply anything, It is just a safety precaution while the initial investigation is taking place. Journalists do not seem to have understood this.
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Old 11th Jun 2024, 20:08
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Hmm, I have seen this situation in many airports, UK, European and "third world".

In good VMC, on the flight deck you have a better view than the tower, and given "expect late landing clearance" everyone is aware of the game.
ATC sees the acceleration of the departure better than we do, if something is wrong from their perspective you get a "go around, fly heading XXX remain this frequency"

Meanwhile we have reduced to min APP, and are watching things unfold, the cockpit chatter is "expect a go around", and we inwardly prepare to fly a divergent heading to the right to keep the departure on the left, and await further.

Once the other guy rotates he is gone.
This might just be the perspective held by people who spent thousands of hours mixing it with all kinds of traffic at a GA airfield in the UK, but I also worked in the tower and saw the other side,

In the airline world, I have never heard a "Land after the departing" clearance anywhere in 25 years of line operations.

Fly safe TR
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Old 11th Jun 2024, 23:17
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by FUMR
Possibly left at the discretion of the Indigo to continue or go around. I personally witnessed a very similar incident at Las Vegas a good many years ago. In that particular case the landing aircraft elected to go around just prior to touchdown as the departing was only just rotating. With the landing aircraft putting power on to go-around, separation was further reduced until it turned away. I photographed the event. Must see if I can find that slide. EDIT: Found it. It was at LAS in May 1987, featuring a departing (and heavy) Total Air L-1011 Tristar (N701TT) and a SWA B737.
Wow! Where's all the casinos?
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Old 12th Jun 2024, 01:07
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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To be very honest i've seen lots of similar scenarios like these here in Portugal and Spain, let alone USA.
Nothing in this video is out of this world!
Peace
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Old 12th Jun 2024, 01:26
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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I suspect the landing aircraft had about the right spacing when turned over to tower, probably on the tight side but okay. Now, either the departure was the quickest off the mark, maybe tower delayed the the line-up or cleared transmission by a few seconds, maybe the Indigo on final didn’t slow right to Vref or let the speed get a little fast. You are still trying to land after the BOM delays and a go around will just make the pattern worse. So, finally at a mile going around will involve a while ‘mother set of considerations, so you make it work. Seen it happen many times, perhaps not as close. Well, except for the time we did an impromptu four-ship break up on final.
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Old 12th Jun 2024, 09:21
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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Smokey 23

And no parallel runway either!
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