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United at Zurich...what happened here..?

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United at Zurich...what happened here..?

Old 1st Jun 2024, 13:47
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United at Zurich...what happened here..?

Hummm...Your wise opinions please.
Spoilers malfunction, PIO, unexpected winds, etc..? 🙄

https://youtu.be/3_jsQ_EwXZw?si=a_SVBSl8Bdkvu4u_
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Old 1st Jun 2024, 13:49
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Old 1st Jun 2024, 14:08
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Not sure if it was the camera perspective but how close was that to a tailstrike happening?

It looked very close
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Old 1st Jun 2024, 15:00
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It all starts at about 160’ to 200’ AGL, where there’s a pitch down input increasing the sink rate. At around 75’, you see a large nose up pitch input, but it’s too late to stop the sink and avoid the firm touchdown, laterally a little right wing down. Then, it’s off to the races with some over controlling in pitch, a large yaw, followed by the go, probably with a switch in handling pilot.
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Old 1st Jun 2024, 15:39
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Crosswind correction + POI ? Training flight ? 2nd landing apparently with different PF.
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Old 1st Jun 2024, 16:01
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I can't give you a wise opinion because I wasn't there. It's landing on runway 28, the shorter of all three runways at Zurich. This may suggest a fairly windy day. I have read somewhere in the past that approaches to runway 28 can sometimes be a little challenging due to the surrounding terrain and buildings. They certainly seemed to gobble up the available 8000 feet rather rapidly trying to plonk it down and took the right decision.
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Old 1st Jun 2024, 16:33
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Why the spoilers not deploying the first time?
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Old 1st Jun 2024, 16:50
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Maybe spoilers not armed?
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Old 1st Jun 2024, 17:33
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Seems (with the caveat of the camera angle) as a fairly innocuous and well managed approach. No obvious reason for things to go rather pear shaped after touchdown.

Curious to read more.
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Old 1st Jun 2024, 20:18
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There is a note on the Approach Chart for ZRH RWY28 ILS: " Expect turbulences (SIC) on short final during Southwesterly winds." I've experienced moderate turbulence myself on that approach...also in a B767.
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Old 1st Jun 2024, 20:24
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Originally Posted by atakacs
Seems (with the caveat of the camera angle) as a fairly innocuous and well managed approach. No obvious reason for things to go rather pear shaped after touchdown.

Curious to read more.
Yes, seemed stable to me in terms of RoD and looked fairly normal until after touchdown. The slight bounce could be because the ground spoilers may not have deployed and they were still in a flying attitude, possibly a gust increasing lift - difficult to tell from the vid. After that the PF gave the impression they had reverted to trying a fully held off landing, getting close to a tail strike plus PIOing a bit on top of that. Good decision to reject and have another go.
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Old 2nd Jun 2024, 09:25
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Yep, interesting also would be to understand wether or not the Reverser were deployed or not...usuallly afer MLG touch down they should be deployed, at least in the Airbus world.
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Old 2nd Jun 2024, 10:32
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Ref the spoilers - I'm not sure you'd be able to see them deploy when the aircraft touches down until the nose lowers...
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Old 2nd Jun 2024, 16:02
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Originally Posted by dixi188
Maybe spoilers not armed?
its been almost a decade, and the FCOM is not readily available, but if remember correctly ...

Also if the Power Levers are not completely at idle the Spoilers will not deploy, or if they are moved slightly forward after being at idle, the Spoilers will automatically retract.

After touchdown Spoilers and Autobrakes will change your pitch ''feel''. This is to say that, after Main Gear touchdown, the Autobrake will go into action when all conditions are met, and if you don't ''hold'' the Nose Gear it will slam the Nose Gear into the runway.

Looks like that the Tailskid might have contacted the runway, but it is there for that.

At the end of a 7 or 8 hour sector, maybe a bit more, probably in their circadian low, fatigue is very likely there ...

A couple of red faces and some paperwork to complete.
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Old 2nd Jun 2024, 19:27
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On the second approach you see the spoilers extend immediatly after touch down.
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Old 2nd Jun 2024, 19:58
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Wondering if the spoilers didn't deploy because they had already decided to go around?
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Old 2nd Jun 2024, 20:08
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Originally Posted by Bksmithca
Wondering if the spoilers didn't deploy because they had already decided to go around?
That had crossed my mind too.
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Old 2nd Jun 2024, 20:46
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Looking at the vid closely, I think they never got the air/ground logic to trigger until just before the nose went down - you can see a momentary deployment of the ground spoilers for a second or two then they retract as the thrust levers went forward for the rejected landing. Could be that the WoW with the high pitch attitude wasn’t enough, or the low level bounces didn’t give ground contact for long enough.
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Old 3rd Jun 2024, 01:00
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zerograv

"and if you don't ''hold'' the Nose Gear it will slam the Nose Gear into the runway."

​​​​​
Never experienced such an NG slam. Can you expand on that?
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Old 3rd Jun 2024, 01:48
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Question

Any idea what the METAR was?
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