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Pilot bails from skydive aircraft

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Pilot bails from skydive aircraft

Old 29th May 2024, 08:44
  #21 (permalink)  
AES
 
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I did quite a bit of "research" at the time of the para drop accident in Switzerland (February '24). At that time I had replies from several Forum members who claimed to be experienced drop pilots (and sounded like it to me) located in, as I remember, the USA, Australia and the UK. The replies to my queries all stated that if the drop a/c was turbine powered (as was the case with the Swiss accident) then a pilot chute was NOT mandatory.

Knowing virtually NIL about such aviation activity (my own background is retired engineer, large pax a/c) I then asked why, but never .got any replies. Personally I still don't see why not, but was able to confirm that a pilot chute is recommended but NOT mandatory here in Switzerland.

In the Swiss accident (only an interim report released so far), it appears that one of the sky divers had his stand-by chute accidentally open (apparently catching on some part of the a/c structure, internal or external not clear) and became tangled in the tailplane/elevator (again report not clear). Result was the tailplane/elevator broke off the drop a/c (a Pacific Aerospace 750 XL) which is powered by a P&W C PT6A.

It seems it was an in-flight separation, the tailplane/elevator wreckage was found some distance from the main wreckage site.

Had the pilot in this case been wearing a chute it seems highly likely that he would still be alive today. .

RIP Christian "Chrigel" Schrepfer

Last edited by AES; 29th May 2024 at 09:18. Reason: typo
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Old 29th May 2024, 09:59
  #22 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Gargleblaster
Here in Denmark there was an accident a few years ago where a jumper got his leg entangled in a safety belt or some sort of strap, and ended up being towed behind or under the aircraft. The pilot couldn't reach the belt-cutter tool on board, and couldn't leave his position to haul him back in. In the end, the fire brigade "lubricated" the entire runway with foam, after which they landed. Can't find the accident report now, but I remember that no serious injury was reported.
There was a super C4 documentary many years ago "Dead Men's Tales" which recounted - and recreated in part - a number of parachuting incidents that could have been fatal. One was a guy getting his jump suit snagged on a door pin as he exited a DC-3 over Arizona - he couldn't get back in and I think the pilot knew but couldn't assist; when the Dak landed he kept the tail up as long as possible then carefully lowered it and the jumper positioned himself so the chute took the abrasion! Great programme, wish I still had it.
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Old 30th May 2024, 07:14
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For what it's worth, I was a parachute instructor back in 1988. We had two a/c, a 182 and a Skyvan SC.7. Pilot always wore a parachute in the 182.
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Old 30th May 2024, 09:43
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Originally Posted by treadigraph
There was a super C4 documentary many years ago "Dead Men's Tales" which recounted - and recreated in part - a number of parachuting incidents that could have been fatal. One was a guy getting his jump suit snagged on a door pin as he exited a DC-3 over Arizona - he couldn't get back in and I think the pilot knew but couldn't assist; when the Dak landed he kept the tail up as long as possible then carefully lowered it and the jumper positioned himself so the chute took the abrasion! Great programme, wish I still had it.
It maybe at

[My system is playing up and I cannot watch videos at the moment.]
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Old 30th May 2024, 18:14
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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Bail-out rig sensible, not mandatory..

I've jumped from many different single & twin engine planes in the US. Some diver-drivers wear rigs, some don't. Pilot bail-out rigs are common in 152s and 172s, less so with King Air pilots. I don't remember any Twin Otter pilots wearing bail-out rigs (perhaps because tail-strikes/entanglements are much less likely?). All the CASAs I've been on the pilot wore one.
I think the choice is dictated by 1) whether the pilot is also a skydiver and 2) how far the he has to go to get out: nose down from the pilot seat would be hard to exit in some planes. So to best of my knowledge, bail-out rigs are not mandatory.

FWIW I've seen one KA nearly brought down by a jumper hitting the tail, another KA stall then spin on jump run due to jumpers shifting to the rear and the low hours pilot not catching it in time (KA jump-runs are at close to stall speed). It went from 15K to 5K feet in about 35 seconds, before the pilot regained control and limped in. The airframe was trashed, but surprisingly fixed up and sold on to a Hawaii DZ (where it soon crashed again with several fatalities).

I did ask a turbine Caravan pilot why he didn't bother, said he wasn't worried about the engine failing! Fortunately the pilot in this 206 incident did have a bail-out rig
Blue skies, black death (as they say in the skydiving fraternity!)


Originally Posted by visibility3miles
I think in the US the pilot of a jump plane is REQUIRED to wear a parachute.

Still, yes clickbait and a sensationalist headline.
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Old 30th May 2024, 21:27
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I may be mistaken, but I recall something in the US about pilots that required them to wear parachutes depending on the modification requirements when certifying the aircraft for parachute jumping.
Flew a Cessna 402 and always wore one, never had to use it.
Kinda like training v-1 cuts. Always happens in the sim, hopefully never happens in real life.
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Old 30th May 2024, 21:30
  #27 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Peter H
It maybe at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wt111KflZVs

[My system is playing up and I cannot watch videos at the moment.]
Fabulous, thank you Peter! Why my several searches didn't reveal it... Saved to watch on t'telly tomorrow night.
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Old 31st May 2024, 21:36
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Originally Posted by treadigraph
Fabulous, thank you Peter! Why my several searches didn't reveal it... Saved to watch on t'telly tomorrow night.
WTF? They actually snagged a stuntman to the DC-3 exit to film the re-creation!
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Old 1st Jun 2024, 02:08
  #29 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Prop swinger
WTF? They actually snagged a stuntman to the DC-3 exit to film the re-creation!
Leo Dickinson recreated quite a lot of parachute incidents and hazards on film as I recall.
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Old 3rd Jun 2024, 15:12
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Originally Posted by treadigraph
Have you seen the pic of the UK C182, pilot and hapless jumper descending under the jumper's 'chute, the shrouds of which were wrapped round the tail? I've seen it but don't have it. Both survived, think it was early '70s...
Place: Ashbourne airfield, Derbyshire (UK)
Date: October 18, 1975
People involved: Ken Miller (pilot)
Derek Scofield (jumpmaster)
Stewart Avent (parachute student)
Frances Ives (parachute student)
Parachute: Standard 24 ft. Irvin chute.
Aircraft : Cessna 182
Witnesses: Peter Denley (instructor)
Eddie McBride (photographer)
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Old 10th Jun 2024, 00:17
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by cats_five
"The pilot was the last once to leave the doomed plane. "
That's because he spent some time "wrestling with the controls"




I always wore a pilot's rig when flying jumpers (C182) because you never know what's going to happen up there. I was on a load once (as a jumper) and the woman sitting in the V of the strut had her container open and the parachute start to get line stretch. Fortunately someone saw it, caught it and everyone got back in the a/c

I always wore a pilot's rig, but . . .I have to say it belonged to the DZ and I had no idea what (if anything) was in it and when the pack date was

I never heard of a rule mandating it though - other than the 60 degrees of bank thing in Part 91
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Old 14th Jun 2024, 12:26
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Originally Posted by Sue VÍtements
That's because he spent some time "wrestling with the controls"
I always wore a pilot's rig, but . . .I have to say it belonged to the DZ and I had no idea what (if anything) was in it and when the pack date was
This! I wore a 'chute when dropping meat bombs from 182s and an Airvan and wouldnt do the job without it. The 182 was an old high-back with a flip up door and I reckoned it was easier to get out of than the Airvan. The Airvan's pilot door is very narrow and you'd have a job getting back to the main door, to get out if anything went wrong. I also had a few goes in a 206 with a flip door. I did ask about the packing of the parachute and was shown that it had a valid pack ticket and was checked routinely. Never did a jump, myself, though.
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Old 14th Jun 2024, 13:33
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Airvan hey? The test pilot had occasion to jump from the Airvan when he couldn't get it to recover from a spin in the test program. Fell through the prop arc, fortunately the prop was stopped.

Wear a chute.

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