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Learjet Landing Accident Mumbai 14 Sep 23

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Learjet Landing Accident Mumbai 14 Sep 23

Old 14th Sep 2023, 15:08
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Learjet Landing Accident Mumbai 14 Sep 23

A Learjet lannding at VABB ( Mumbai ) in heavy rain has gone off the runway. All Pax & Crew are reported to be safe.

https://www.freepressjournal.in/mumb...isuals-surface

https://www.livemint.com/news/india/aircraft-crashes-at-mumbai-airport-with-8-passengers-on-board-11694693364447.ht
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Old 14th Sep 2023, 17:21
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Some excursion

the "excursion"

I would personally term that as a completely destabilised approach resulting in a crash.
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Old 14th Sep 2023, 17:44
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Originally Posted by zulu_01
All Pax & Crew are reported to be safe.
Safe as in safe in the hospital instead of safe in the morgue. Amazed that any occupant aboard an aircraft that strikes the runway in that attitude can survive.

From the first link in post #1:

An official at the BrihanMumbai Municipal Corporation (BMC) said all 8 people injured in the incident have been hospitalised.
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Old 14th Sep 2023, 17:50
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Originally Posted by zulu_01
A Learjet lannding at VABB ( Mumbai ) in heavy rain has gone off the runway. All Pax & Crew are reported to be safe.

https://www.freepressjournal.in/mumb...isuals-surface

https://www.livemint.com/news/india/aircraft-crashes-at-mumbai-airport-with-8-passengers-on-board-11694693364447.ht
In order to "go off the runway" don't you have to be on the runway at some point?
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Old 15th Sep 2023, 07:01
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I would personally term that as a completely destabilised approach resulting in a crash
A no flare landing I'd call it.
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Old 15th Sep 2023, 08:34
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Originally Posted by megan
A no flare landing I'd call it.
Well it doesn't look like aquaplaning...
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Old 15th Sep 2023, 10:37
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Forgive me for I am not without a sense of humour,.However, this is quite a serious accident with people getting seriously hurt. Do we really need this school boy humour? Would we be seeing the same response had it been a UK registered aircraft crashing in the UK? I think not.
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Old 15th Sep 2023, 10:39
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Originally Posted by Teddy Robinson
the "excursion"

I would personally term that as a completely destabilised approach resulting in a crash.
Golly. That is not a happy manner to handle Lears. That makes sense of the T/Rs being stowed, those look like Dee Howards fitted. Planting a plane on its nose and wing at approach speed will give some interesting photo ops.

Last edited by fdr; 15th Sep 2023 at 17:26.
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Old 15th Sep 2023, 10:41
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Originally Posted by Avman
Forgive me for I am not without a sense of humour,.However, this is quite a serious accident with people getting seriously hurt. Do we really need this school boy humour? Would we be seeing the same response had it been a UK registered aircraft crashing in the UK? I think not.
Actually, I am certain you would.
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Old 15th Sep 2023, 11:11
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Originally Posted by Avman
Forgive me for I am not without a sense of humour,.However, this is quite a serious accident with people getting seriously hurt. Do we really need this school boy humour?
We certainly do. Especially in this day and age !
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Old 15th Sep 2023, 11:25
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Originally Posted by megan
A no flare landing I'd call it.
Reminds me of the Buffalo "heavy landing" at Farnborough...

Edit: Just to qualify that remark - the Buffalo fuselage survived a very heavy impact (described by Farnborough PR as a heavy landing at the time) as did this Learjet, both allowing those on board to survive.

Last edited by treadigraph; 15th Sep 2023 at 12:41.
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Old 15th Sep 2023, 13:49
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In the case of the Buffalo, Bill Loverseed wandered out of the wreck shaking his head and muttering what looked like .... "what happened there ? who did that ?"

A mate of mine at Britannia who had known Bill in the arrows said his eyesight was always suspect.
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Old 15th Sep 2023, 13:54
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They look as if they are banked to the right at about 40į and with nose down pitch as they 'touch' down. Completely the wrong attitude to be as one crosses the threshold. I am frankly amazed, (but glad), that any survived.

It appears to me that they had no idea they were so close to the runway - can't see if flaps and gear were down, and they did seem to be very very fast.

How, in this day and age, with all the training, the CRM and the studies of previous accidents; does a professional crew get so out of shape and with such absent SA?

If the downpour was so bad;

a) why were they approaching in the first place - what about potential microburst?

b) why didn't they say "nope, we are going to discontinue this approach'.

Does this aircraft type not have Rad Alts?


As for black humour - it is a coping mechanism.
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Old 15th Sep 2023, 17:24
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Originally Posted by Uplinker
They look as if they are banked to the right at about 40į and with nose down pitch as they 'touch' down. Completely the wrong attitude to be as one crosses the threshold. I am frankly amazed, (but glad), that any survived.

It appears to me that they had no idea they were so close to the runway - can't see if flaps and gear were down, and they did seem to be very very fast.

How, in this day and age, with all the training, the CRM and the studies of previous accidents; does a professional crew get so out of shape and with such absent SA?

If the downpour was so bad;

a) why were they approaching in the first place - what about potential microburst?

b) why didn't they say "nope, we are going to discontinue this approach'.

Does this aircraft type not have Rad Alts?


As for black humour - it is a coping mechanism.
Yup to most of that, the gear and flaps are down though...

They can sign some of that off against the next 12 yearly wing dismount.
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Old 15th Sep 2023, 19:44
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A mate of mine at Britannia who had known Bill in the arrows said his eyesight was always suspect.
A bit of thread drift.... Bill's eyesight was just fine. I flew to Farnborough as a passenger on that Buffalo, and I rode jump seat during the show two days before the accident. I later flew a hundred or so hours ferrying with him after he left DHC. The Buffalo accident had other factors. Bill was not blameless, but it wasn't all him either...

Pardon the drift, back to the Learjet discussion....
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Old 16th Sep 2023, 02:47
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Weather like that the fire hoses were probably redundant.
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Old 16th Sep 2023, 08:30
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Any news on the condition of the crew, especially N?
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Old 17th Sep 2023, 19:48
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That has the appearance of a low level LOC more than many other things. Nose dropping, wing going down. Itís difficult to judge the speed but the wreckage came to a halt within the field of view of the camera, judging by the plume of spray. Whatís a typical bug speed on one of these? 125kts? Maybe thatís why they survived as it was a minimum energy impact?

As the turn seems to be taking them away from the runway centreline, it doesnít look like a last minute correction to regain it, so perhaps an involuntary manoeuvre...
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Old 18th Sep 2023, 10:15
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Sorry, LOC ? Oh, loss of control ?

Yes, to "land" at that attitude is utterly bizarre, so something very wrong must have happened.

Can someone give us a concise explanation of the control mechanisms of this type. E.g. is it fly-by-wire or direct mechanical control. Do the flight controls have hydraulic assistance and what is the manual back-up and redundancy configuration?
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Old 18th Sep 2023, 19:28
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Cable. Backup for Ailerons is to disengage and to use Spoilerons instead. Very effective.
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