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P-51 versus Malibu M600

Old 31st Dec 2022, 19:41
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Gnome de PPRuNe
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P-51 versus Malibu M600

Whoops! Houston Executive Airport...

The P-51D Mustang "Glamorous Glenn III" ran into the aft section of N282TX, a Piper PA-46-600TP M600, as it was holding short for departure for Runway 36 at Taxiway "A".
The M600 sustained extensive damage (both the horizontal and vertical stabilizers were destroyed, and the aft fuselage skin was damaged). The P-51D sustained minor damage to the propeller. There were no injuries.
https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/305422
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Old 1st Jan 2023, 12:00
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The M600 sustained extensive damage (both the horizontal and vertical stabilizers were destroyed, and the aft fuselage skin was damaged). The P-51D sustained minor damage to the propeller
Good old P51. And that was only with engine on idle.
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Old 1st Jan 2023, 12:17
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The P-51D sustained minor damage to the propeller
​​​​​​​Presumably the engine will have to be overhauled, due to shock-loading
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Old 1st Jan 2023, 12:47
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Originally Posted by India Four Two View Post
Presumably the engine will have to be overhauled, due to shock-loading
Maybe , but II would say checking the crankshaft will be enough . I have seen many "nose over" on tail draggers with engine on idle, and generally the engine was fine. But I am not a mechanic and no experience on Rolls Royce or Allison V12s...
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Old 1st Jan 2023, 23:36
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It's going to take more than duct tape:






"Nothing to do with me Officer! Those dents in the spinner are old."

This must have been taken soon after the accident - the wheel-well doors have not yet fully opened.
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Old 2nd Jan 2023, 00:18
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Must`ve been the Sun in his eyes.....
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Old 2nd Jan 2023, 04:13
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Must`ve been the Sun in his eyes.....
Beware the Hun Piper in the Sun!
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Old 2nd Jan 2023, 09:03
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Originally Posted by treadigraph View Post
Whoops! Houston Executive Airport...



https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/305422
Shouldn't tail draggers (especially long-nosed birds like this) be required to have a person walking in front with a red flag?
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Old 2nd Jan 2023, 09:16
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Weaving is the usual method of avoiding whoopsies on the taxiway.

Bob Hoover hit a truck with his Mustang I believe ("who left that there?" rings a bell) and the sadly late Carolyn Grace de-boomed a parked Jet Ranger with her Spit at Duxford. Doggy doos happens to even the best...
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Old 2nd Jan 2023, 09:17
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Go-Pro in the nose cowl feeding to a Phone screen?
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Old 2nd Jan 2023, 10:22
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Originally Posted by blue up View Post
Go-Pro in the nose cowl feeding to a Phone screen?
turning at 2500 Rpm ?
Most Taildraggers and long-nosed warbirds in particular have taxi visibility issues, and we have way to compensate. Slow and slight regular S turns are the norm , The problem comes when someone pops up in front of you unexpected, or queuing in a lane when the one in front brake and stop in without saying anything ..
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Old 2nd Jan 2023, 11:32
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Originally Posted by ATC Watcher View Post
turning at 2500 Rpm ?
Most Taildraggers and long-nosed warbirds in particular have taxi visibility issues, and we have way to compensate. Slow and slight regular S turns are the norm , The problem comes when someone pops up in front of you unexpected, or queuing in a lane when the one in front brake and stop in without saying anything ..
I am not sure about stating that you are stopping each time you stop while in line at a runway at a busy airport with a long-nosed taildragger behind you. Of course, there is a logic to it and it might be a good idea when you are small to do something when there is a large-bladed aircraft like this behind you. As the little guy who knows there is a big-nosed taildragger behind them, one might position themselves at the edge of the taxiway where they are more likely to be seen or even turn themself at an angle when stopping to be able to monitor that big aircraft behind you.

But the taildragger should be keeping a proper lookout. Depending on the design of the taildragger with poor forward visibility, this may mean not stopping so that you are pointed straight ahead but stopping at an angle to the taxiway centerline(allowing you to see forward along the taxiway). Or if stopped and pointed straight ahead, once ready to move forward, adding power and applying one brake to turn the aircraft a certain number of degrees on the spot so that you can see ahead along the taxiway and then applying the other brake to turn back on the spot(or close to it) toward the taxiway heading to taxi forward. Or possibly having a marshaller in certain circumstances like Oshkosh or in certain circumstances potentially asking on the radio for some sort of visual verification assistance.
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Old 2nd Jan 2023, 13:48
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Most Taildraggers and long-nosed warbirds in particular have taxi visibility issues, and we have way to compensate.
Yes.

The problem comes when someone pops up in front of you unexpected, or queuing in a lane when the one in front brake and stop in without saying anything ..
There is no aviation methodology for a taxiing airplane to announce that it is slowing or stopping. Using a radio frequency for this would create communication chaos, and no one could know who is who anyway... "G-ABCD stopping!"... Is that the plane I'm taxiing behind?

It is simply the responsibility of a taxiing pilot to assure that the path is clear. If someone could pop up or stop in front of you, you should be aware of their presence before they could pose a collision hazard. Obviously, being the "pop up / sudden stop" pilot is not great airport etiquette, and courtesy would suggest the need to make one's self known, or give way to the moving airplane if practical, but it is a pilot's responsibility to taxi safely!
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Old 2nd Jan 2023, 15:08
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No injuries; good. I think we can chalk that up as a "Probable".
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Old 2nd Jan 2023, 16:04
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Punkalouver and Pilot DAR " I was in no way suggesting you should call on the R/T evertime you stop, of course not , would be meaningless.also . I badly phrased this. should have better said " unexpectedly" instead. Anyway we do not know exactly what happenned , could be a brake failure from the P51 for all we know. That said if I was fying a P51 , (whishes, !...) I would taxi it extremely carefully and very ,very slowly , but again maybe that is also what the guy did here too. Shit just happens sometimes. .
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Old 2nd Jan 2023, 16:49
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Shouldn't tail draggers (especially long-nosed birds like this) be required to have a person walking in front with a red flag?
You're welcome to volunteer.
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Old 2nd Jan 2023, 17:44
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I recall a WWII film of several P-47s taxiing out, each with the crew chief lying on the wing.
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Old 2nd Jan 2023, 20:20
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Originally Posted by RatherBeFlying View Post
I recall a WWII film of several P-47s taxiing out, each with the crew chief lying on the wing.
I'd pay top-dollar for some of that.
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Old 3rd Jan 2023, 01:58
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I recall a WWII film of several P-47s taxiing out, each with the crew chief lying on the wing
Standard practice if circumstances demanded. Taxiing a tail dragger you should be weaving if the dimensions of the taxi way permit so as to clear the area ahead.



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Old 3rd Jan 2023, 19:46
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Originally Posted by megan View Post
Standard practice if circumstances demanded. Taxiing a tail dragger you should be weaving if the dimensions of the taxi way permit so as to clear the area ahead.
Well worded post and likely applicable to the subject of the thread. A challenge is when the dimensions of the taxiway I do not permit weaving.

The taxi very slowly option is not particularly realistic when and significant taxi distance is involved.
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