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Private aircraft crash in Baltic Sea

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Private aircraft crash in Baltic Sea

Old 4th Sep 2022, 19:39
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Private aircraft crash in Baltic Sea


Looks like it went without ATC contact for a significant amount of time, was chased by French and German fighters before finally coming down in a spiral in the Baltic Sea a few hours ago.
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Old 4th Sep 2022, 20:49
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I read pilot was believed to be unconscious with 15 mins of fuel left. Unable to find my source though since so take with a pinch of salt. Awful news.
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Old 4th Sep 2022, 21:08
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Bears all the hallmarks of a hypoxia event. According to some press reports last communications with French ATC mentioned a pressurisation issue. Single pilot plus 3 pax.
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Old 4th Sep 2022, 21:17
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Yeah, sounds very similar to Payne Stewart and Tom Lampitt accidents... very sad.
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Old 4th Sep 2022, 21:55
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Forgive my ignorance... On EASA kingdom is it allowed a NCC operation in single pilot?
May their souls RIP
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Old 4th Sep 2022, 22:14
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1979 Citation II SP, been on the Austrian register for a couple of years.
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Old 4th Sep 2022, 22:32
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Originally Posted by JanetFlight View Post
On EASA kingdom is it allowed a NCC operation in single pilot?
If the aircraft is certified for single pilot, then yes. In this case it was (II/SP).

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Old 4th Sep 2022, 23:38
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Yes, reports pilot radioed ATC indicating pressurisation issues shortly after takeoff. Should they not have descended immediately below 10,000 while putting on oxygen mask then land at nearest airport. Or just continue to fly and cross fingers.
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Old 5th Sep 2022, 08:10
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Originally Posted by JanetFlight View Post
Forgive my ignorance... On EASA kingdom is it allowed a NCC operation in single pilot?
May their souls RIP
Pilot was an elderly millionaire entrepreneur who was the owner of the aircraft (through one of his companies). He used the aircraft to shuttle his family between his retirement home in Spain and Cologne (where he hailed from and is companies are based).
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Old 5th Sep 2022, 08:24
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Lost contact within Spain after having reported pressurization issues right after takeoff, climbed and crossed half of Europe on autopilot accompanied by QRA fighters. Reports claim nobody sat in the cockpit later on.

Last edited by Less Hair; 5th Sep 2022 at 13:21.
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Old 5th Sep 2022, 08:29
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Originally Posted by Foxxster View Post
Yes, reports pilot radioed ATC indicating pressurisation issues shortly after takeoff. Should they not have descended immediately below 10,000 while putting on oxygen mask then land at nearest airport. Or just continue to fly and cross fingers.
Not a pilot just a long term observer of the aviation scene but hypoxia is insidious. If he thought he'd solved the problem but had not, or just failed to act with required urgency then that's it. Conscious for a while but increasingly detached; like a drunk.

Who else remembers John Noakes, of Blue Peter fame (for non Brits a very long running children's TV magazine programme) in the hypoxia training 'tank' while training to jump with the Red Devils parachute team?
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Old 5th Sep 2022, 08:41
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I am not a pro, but I would guess that scenarios are quite different when it comes to trouble-shooting if a commercial pilot is in charge and the aircraft is operated on a day-to-day-basis or if, as in the case in question, the pilot was more or less a hobby pilot and the aircraft is a little-used personal steed (my understanding is that the aircraft sat on the gorund for quite some time in Spain while the family was holidaying there).

Interesting that the the pilot was confident enough to fly around his family as a single-pilot - he was, from what I can tell, well into his 70s and we are not talking about a Piper Cub here.. .
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Old 5th Sep 2022, 09:14
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A pilot has always to act professional regardless of plane complexity. All people died because of his decision making. Very sad
event.
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Old 5th Sep 2022, 10:58
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Sure. What I meant is that such a situation will be more challenging for moist "hobby" pilots than for commercial pilots, particularly if you are operating a pretty complex aircraft at 36.000 ft.
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Old 5th Sep 2022, 11:25
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Not a hobby-pilot

Originally Posted by virginblue View Post
I am not a pro, but I would guess that scenarios are quite different when it comes to trouble-shooting if a commercial pilot is in charge and the aircraft is operated on a day-to-day-basis or if, as in the case in question, the pilot was more or less a hobby pilot and the aircraft is a little-used personal steed (my understanding is that the aircraft sat on the gorund for quite some time in Spain while the family was holidaying there).

Interesting that the the pilot was confident enough to fly around his family as a single-pilot - he was, from what I can tell, well into his 70s and we are not talking about a Piper Cub here.. .
The pilot (single pilot, 72yo and 50 years of piloting experience) was the owner of QUICK AIR (ambulances, medical aircraft, rent) besides other three aviation companies.
PAX: his wife (68), his daughter (27) and her fiancÚ and two dogs.
At monday 5th noon the known facts (in Spain) are the following:
- take off from Jerez de la Frontera (XRY-LEJR) to Colonia/Bonn (CGN-EDDK)
- first communication with Central Spain, "sector Toledo",# frecuencies SectorToledo 133.75 381.25# in which the pilot (in a very bad communication quality due to extra sounds and statica) said there were PRESSURIZATION PROBLEMS.
- APPARENTLY no other comms were made with the AC.
- French, German, Danish and Lithuanian (AFAIK) fighters were on the chase and declared NOBODY IN THE COCKPIT.
- what happened later is in the posts of other fellows here.

My opinion: if you're experienced and are flying single and are carrying pax (also if you're alone, of course) and DETECT a pressurization problem, the first is to descend, communicate and aviate.
Strange thing: the pilot was NOT in his post of command.
May happened he had the issue, THOUGHT THAT WAS FIXED, went into AUTO and then into the cabin. The cabin depressurized AGAIN, all went wobbly and lost conscience and the AC continued till total fuel consumption (total journey 2000mi/3200kmin a straight line). RIP to all.


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Old 5th Sep 2022, 11:43
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The pilot (single pilot, 72yo and 50 years of piloting experience) was the owner of QUICK AIR (ambulances, medical aircraft, rent) besides other three aviation companies
Correct. But this aviation stuff was only his side job. His main job was, until semi-retirement, running Germany's 9th largest plant engineering company. He was an aviation buff, held a pilot's licience and invested money in some local aviation companies, but he was not a full-time aviation professional.
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Old 5th Sep 2022, 12:29
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- first communication with Central Spain, "sector Toledo",# frecuencies SectorToledo 133.75 381.25# in which the pilot (in a very bad communication quality due to extra sounds and statica) said there were PRESSURIZATION PROBLEMS.
Speculation from my side. The poor communication quality may have been the result of wearing the Oxygen Mask. However, the O2 bottle may have been depleted or shut off valve closed. Known to have happened, even in the airline world.

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Old 5th Sep 2022, 12:58
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Re the above comments: Anyone know if this model has a cabin altitude warning?
On older model Gulfstreams I had worked on (even 1978 G2) they had considerable breathing O2 capacity to match their operating altitude and over water legs, guessing a little to reaching land meant not descending immediately below 10,000ft mostly because of the single pack!
The one time depressurization occurred at altitude (+38,000ft) the flight deck filled with mist, the pilots scrambled to get their mask on, as you don't have long to live let alone work, one knocking his reading glasses off then a descent and hasty search for the relevant Jeppesen.

Last edited by aeromech3; 5th Sep 2022 at 13:16.
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Old 5th Sep 2022, 13:19
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Originally Posted by 172_driver View Post
Speculation from my side. The poor communication quality may have been the result of wearing the Oxygen Mask. However, the O2 bottle may have been depleted or shut off valve closed. Known to have happened, even in the airline world.
Sorry, but I'm not speculating.
​​I've got good info about the ONLY communication.

Going into bussiness: if you're in the NEED OF AN OXMASK, are carrying your family & dogs and make a call to the traffic controller DON'T YOU ASK FOR A DESCENT PERMISSION?
More: if you're with the mask ON and talking to the control you're surely ON YOUR SEAT.
What made you go into the cabin?
Three chasing observers said nobody was seen in the cockpit.
Too confusing...

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Old 5th Sep 2022, 13:44
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Originally Posted by aeromech3 View Post
Re the above comments: Anyone know if this model has a cabin altitude warning?
On older model Gulfstreams I had worked on (even 1978 G2) they had considerable breathing O2 capacity to match their operating altitude and over water legs, guessing a little to reaching land meant not descending immediately below 10,000ft mostly because of the single pack !
The one time depressurization occurred at altitude (+38,000ft) the flight deck filled with mist, the pilots scrambled to get their mask on, as you don't have long to live let alone work, one knocking his reading glasses off then a decent and hasty search for the relevant Jeppesen.
Yes, C 550 has a cabin altitude warning.

Found in C550 MEL
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