Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Non-Airline Forums > Accidents and Close Calls
Reload this Page >

PA28 crash 4 fatal 6/1 Carlinville, IL

Accidents and Close Calls Discussion on accidents, close calls, and other unplanned aviation events, so we can learn from them, and be better pilots ourselves.

PA28 crash 4 fatal 6/1 Carlinville, IL

Old 5th Jun 2020, 16:44
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Missouri
Posts: 35
PA28 crash 4 fatal 6/1 Carlinville, IL

Does anyone know anything about the crash of a PA28 on 6/1/2020 near Carlinville, IL? It has been in our local news. All 4 aboard died. I don't see any mention here or on the NTSB site so far.

Just wondering what could have caused the crash. Pilot incapacitation? Structural failure?

Thanks,
Jon
jmelson is offline  
Old 5th Jun 2020, 19:53
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 334
Hey, Jon! Is this the accident you asked about? PA-28 Carlinville, Illinois

- Ed

cavuman1 is offline  
Old 6th Jun 2020, 00:35
  #3 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Missouri
Posts: 35
Originally Posted by cavuman1 View Post
Hey, Jon! Is this the accident you asked about? PA-28 Carlinville, Illinois

- Ed
Yes, that is it. VERY little info out about this one. Seems like maybe no distress call, got up to cruising altitude and then hits the ground. Kind of a strange one. Usually there's some tidbit of info that might shed an early clue on what went wrong in the most general terms, but nobody's giving much info at all. But, then, maybe there ARE no early clues, and only deeper investigation will reveal what happened.

Jon
jmelson is offline  
Old 6th Jun 2020, 06:31
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Reading, UK
Posts: 11,743
PA28 crash 4 fatal 6/1 Carlinville, IL

Looks like it occurred last Sunday, 31st May.
DaveReidUK is online now  
Old 6th Jun 2020, 17:12
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Paisley, Florida USA
Posts: 167
I was able to get some information from the Aviation Safety Network site:

Accident Piper PA-28-235 N8991W, 31 May 2020

Accident Piper PA-28-235 N8991W, 31 May 2020

The aircraft impacted the terrain in Macoupin County south of Carlinville, Illinois. The airplane sustained unr...





The Flight Aware link is very interesting. At around 3:19 P.M., CDT, it shows a takeoff from an airport near St. Louis. The flight proceeded some 54 miles in a northeasterly direction until it crashed at approximately 3:46 P.M., just south of Carlinville, Illinois. The aircraft flew at a relatively low altitude (1200 - 1300 ft.) for around nine minutes until climbing to an altitude of around 5300 ft. some 20 minutes after takeoff. The aircraft continued in a roughly northeast direction until entering a left turn at 4:43 P.M., CDT. The turn continued for around 2-1/2 minutes until it abruptly tightened and the aircraft started to lose altitude. The initial rate of descent recorded by FlightAware was 727 fpm, but increased rapidly to 4182 fpm, finally reaching 6353 fpm at the time of assumed impact.

Something apparently happened, causing the aircraft to depart controlled flight with no recovery. Who knows what caused the loss of control, and any theories I have would be mere conjecture at this point.

Well, when it comes to conjecture, that's my middle name, so here goes:
  • The PA-28-235 can carry a load of around 1465 lbs, and even with a full load of fuel (50 gal.) and assuming an average weight of occupants of 200 pounds, the airplane should not have been over-loaded. Of course, I'm assuming (dangerous I know) that the flight was a local sight-seeing flight involving no baggage.
  • Four fraternity brothers were involved, and we all know that frat-bros tend to be "enthusiastic" in one another's company, perhaps to the detriment of external awareness.
  • This was a mid afternoon flight, possibly after a long lunch.
  • The final left turn may have been to observe something on the ground and may have been tightened to the point that the airplane entered an accelerated stall.
  • The stall resulted in a spin.
  • Spin recovery is no longer part of the primary flight instruction syllabus.

I just don't know much about the crash, other than it was a tragedy for the victims and their families. R.I.P.

Regards,
Grog



capngrog is online now  
Old 7th Jun 2020, 10:52
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: LHTL
Posts: 216
For me 5000 feet seems a bit high for sightseeting in that area. Perhaps. I was wondering about entering IMC, trying to turn back and losing it into a spiral diver. But the weather (METAR history) appears to have been good, VMC by wide margins, on STL and SGF on 31st of May, 06-24 UTC. So that's unlikely.
rnzoli is offline  
Old 7th Jun 2020, 17:35
  #7 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Missouri
Posts: 35
Originally Posted by capngrog View Post
I was able to get some information from the Aviation Safety Network site:
Of course, I'm assuming (dangerous I know) that the flight was a local sight-seeing flight involving no baggage.
Grog
No, I believe it was reported they were leaving the area after a few days stay, so a cross country flight, assumed to be with baggage.

And, I think the weather was good that day, but some broken clouds.

Jon
jmelson is offline  
Old 8th Jun 2020, 04:08
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Paisley, Florida USA
Posts: 167
Originally Posted by jmelson View Post
No, I believe it was reported they were leaving the area after a few days stay, so a cross country flight, assumed to be with baggage.
Jon
I missed that. Where was that reported, and where were they going?

Cheers,
Grog
capngrog is online now  
Old 9th Jun 2020, 01:21
  #9 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Missouri
Posts: 35
Originally Posted by capngrog View Post
I missed that. Where was that reported, and where were they going?

Cheers,
Grog
Here's a link that has some more info on the people and the trip they were on :
ttps://fox2now.com/news/illinois/chesterfield-native-among-4-killed-in-small-plane-crash/

Jon
jmelson is offline  
Old 9th Jun 2020, 06:17
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 1,424
Originally Posted by jmelson View Post
Here's a link that has some more info on the people and the trip they were on :
ttps://fox2now.com/news/illinois/chesterfield-native-among-4-killed-in-small-plane-crash/

Jon
https://fox2now.com/news/illinois/ch...l-plane-crash/

Not available to Europe
cats_five is offline  
Old 9th Jun 2020, 13:38
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Suffolk
Age: 66
Posts: 277
Originally Posted by cats_five View Post
via windscribe vpn:CARLINVILLE, Ill. – A Chesterfield native and Parkway Central graduate was one of four men killed in a plane crash Sunday in Macoupin County, Illinois.

The Federal Aviation Administration, the National Transportation Safety Board, and Macoupin County Sheriff’s Office is investigating the crash of the 4-seater, Piper Cherokee fixed-wing, single-engine aircraft.

Daniel Shedd texted a photo to his mother Sunday at 3:20 p.m. just before he and three of his friends took off from Creve Coeur Airport. Their plane crashed in rural Carlinville, Illinois, killing all four men.

The group was headed to Michigan to pick up one of Shedd’s motorcycles, which a friend had borrowed.

Shedd’s father, Charles, said his son had planned on riding the bike back to St. Louis today – his mother’s birthday.

Daniel Shedd was 37.

The other men in the plane were identified as 35-year-old Joshua Sweers of Michigan; 39-year-old Daniel Schlosser of Michigan; and 39-year-old John Camilleri of New York.

Charles said they all met at Kettering University in Flint, Michigan and became really good friends. They were all engineers.

Daniel Shedd worked for the Defense Contract Management Agency for the past 7 years as a quality insurance engineer, his father said.

Charles said he wants his son to be remembered for his integrity, his friendship, and that he cared about family first.

Robert Katz, a commercial pilot and certified flight instructor with 40 years of experience, tells Fox 2 that while the Piper Cherokee had passed inspection, it was built in 1964. He said the fact that there was an extreme descent all of a sudden, with no weather issues, suggests something happened to the plane’s wings.

The official investigation and subsequent report will take weeks to put together.



rusty sparrow is online now  
Old 9th Jun 2020, 15:24
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 1998
Location: south coast
Posts: 404
What is a " fraternity brother" ? mentioned in the first accident report ......
Barcli is offline  
Old 9th Jun 2020, 16:23
  #13 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Missouri
Posts: 35
Originally Posted by Barcli View Post
What is a " fraternity brother" ? mentioned in the first accident report ......
A member of a college fraternity organization. A fairly big thing on some US college campuses.

Jon
jmelson is offline  
Old 11th Jun 2020, 02:00
  #14 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Missouri
Posts: 35
And, it is now showing up in the NTSB. There does seem to be a lot of scatter in the parts of the plane, but not so much as to point to an in-flight breakup. Not quite sure how to interpret that.

Jon
jmelson is offline  
Old 11th Jun 2020, 14:40
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Laredo, TX
Posts: 121
Originally Posted by jmelson View Post
And, it is now showing up in the NTSB. There does seem to be a lot of scatter in the parts of the plane, but not so much as to point to an in-flight breakup. Not quite sure how to interpret that.

Jon
Altitude and airspeed control seems ragged on two flights available on FlightAware: https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N8991W
jimtx is online now  
Old 23rd Jun 2020, 17:29
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Paisley, Florida USA
Posts: 167
The Preliminary NTSB Report is now available.

The link: https://app.ntsb.gov/pdfgenerator/Re...relim&IType=LA

Regards,
Grog
capngrog is online now  
Old 24th Jun 2020, 18:43
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: France
Posts: 108
Two things come to mind. CO poisoning and the problems with Pa 28 wing failures. Time will tell..
DownWest is offline  
Old 25th Jun 2020, 11:29
  #18 (permalink)  
Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Ontario, Canada
Age: 59
Posts: 4,552
The statement:

An initial wreckage layout confirmed that all major airframe structure was located at the accident site.
I take that to mean that both wings were attached to the fusealge to the end. In a high speed turn that tight, if a wing had gone wrong, it would be farther from the main wreckage.

If this were a crash in VFR flight with poor reference to the surface, it would have similarities to JFK jr's accident, loss of reference, entered spiral dive, pulled to try to recover. But, it sounds like the weather conditions would not be a factor. So, loss of control. The initial turn to the left, which included a climb from 5400 to 5600 feet, reduced radius noticeably just before a sudden and tightening turn to the right with descent, never recovered. Perhaps some said "hey look at that..." and the pilot steepend the bank, so as to see around the wing, while slowing down, while carrying a heavy load. In a climbing turn, a stall entry will typically result in the drop of the opposite wing, and if not recovered immediately, a spin entry opposite to the direction of the turn.

I opine, based only upon what I read in the report.
Pilot DAR is offline  
Old 3rd Jul 2020, 16:23
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Barbados
Posts: 395
There was a similar accident here in Dominica in January - a French PA28-161 - loaded with four people on a day trip from Guadeloupe - departed just after dark - never got to the 1,500ft reporting altitude - crashed just north of the island shortly after take off - all four onboard (IR pilot, another private pilot, the other pilots's wife and teenage son) perished, bodies were never found - parts of wreckage were found the next day (main part a spar with u/c leg and tire that caused it to float to the surface). There was no mayday from the accident airplane, so it happened very fast.

In this accident it seemed likely to me that loading was likely a problem OK in daylight but at night marginal on power, at low altitude (below 1,000ft seemed likely) that even a small distraction led to the problem.

Dominica has reacted (end March 2020) by the issue of a permanent NOTAM banning night VFR departures from both of Dominica's airports. I understand that it was a night VFR departure for the short flight to TFFR - in this case it is unlikely that this reaction (if indeed it is the reason, the reason given on the NOTAM is not credible) would not have had any benefit in this case as the appropriately certified pilot would have probably have departed IFR.

I mention this here as it struck me as a PA28-181 pilot who flies out of Canefield (TDCF) that even in day I do not fully load my airplane, I have the 181 simply because of the issue of a loss of power - being overloaded or even close with an engine maybe down a little on power is big risk.
Ebbie 2003 is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.