Cirrus down in Orcutt schoolyard

[Pilot DAR]

No: when the SR series received EASA approval a full program of spin testing was conducted. The earlier FAA certification allowed CAPS as an alternative, I think probably to save cost, and this has led to the myth that a Cirrus can not be recovered from a spin.

Fair enough. I admit to not knowing the Cirrus well, though I can read a type certificate data sheet, and FAA special conditions. If EASA gave the Cirrus certification including spin certification, the design deserves respect for compliance as any other type.

I expect that we agree that an careless pilot can spin any type by mis handling it at an altitude from which recovery by spin recovery or CAPs will not be successful. I still support spin training in spin approved planes though, simply to build pilot skill.

[Jonzarno]

Yes, I agree completely!!

[DaveJ75]

Originally Posted by Pilot DAR

I expect that we agree that an careless pilot can spin any type by mis handling it at an altitude from which recovery by spin recovery or CAPs will not be successful. I still support spin training in spin approved planes though, simply to build pilot skill.

I broadly agree with the intent of these points... but you could also be a well trained careful pilot who unfortunately finds themselves in a sufficiently high workload situation to mishandle the aircraft, despite plenty of spin training...

[Pilot DAR]

a well trained careful pilot who unfortunately finds themselves in a sufficiently high workload situation to mishandle the aircraft,

Ah, and this is a reminder to one of the most basic rules: "Aviate, Navigate, Communicate". It's up to the careful pilot to always prioritize, so that keeping the plane flying safely, and thereafter toward a safe place to fly are the priorities. If other high workload aspects present themselves, they must be prioritized out, until the pilot's capacity can accommodate them. 'Worst case, after you land, you're writing a report explaining why you failed to communicate with ATC.

I've trained pilots, who, when I introduced a failure, simply stopped flying the plane. A few times, I have been stunned to see the plane simply continuing on an unintended path uncorrected. One pilot, who I was training in his newly purchased Bellanca Viking very simply could not manage and prioritize more than one thing at a time. If I introduced even the smallest distraction, the plane was flying itself. After 19 hours of type training on the Viking, I declined to provide him a checkout letter. A delightfully nice fellow, but he just did not have what it took for a high performance single.

[DaveJ75]

I hope he realised you saved his life that day! Did he sell the aircraft after that?

[Pilot DAR]

I hope he realised you saved his life that day! Did he sell the aircraft after that?

Sadly, I don't know what happened, other than to say I'm certain that he flew the plane home solo, which I could not prevent, but very certainly did not endorse. I did quietly ask around his part of the country (a long way from mine), and nobody ever heard that that plane was involved in an accident, or incident. But I have no idea what happened to it. I hope he sold it to someone better suited to fly it.

There are all kinds of pilots, and some reach their personal glass ceiling of skill before others, or before some of us would expect. It's not worthy of criticism, other than to encourage skill limited pilots to choose to fly within their own skill sets. Sometimes that seems limiting for them, but that's just the way is is. Sadly, the middle aged "type A" personality, who has earned their way to being able to afford a fancy fast plane, is often one of the more difficult personality types to convince that they really "aren't there yet" in terms of flying it with the appropriate skill.

[DaveJ75]

Yes... rather alarming really. Some people do just seem to think it's a car with wings... I've also encountered the type you describe in the automotive domain - shattering the assumption that success in one thing doesn't automatically transfer to everything else can be entertaining!