B17 crash at Bradley
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Pushing two at the same time seems to me a very hard thing to happen but who knows how these switches on the crashed B-17 were protected.
I am new here and my posts first have to be checked out but on my previous one which has not come out tried to describe the procedure we used to confirm and push.
From the flight manual.
PROPELLER FEATHERING SWITCHES. Each propeller is feathered individually by one of the four red push button switches above the central control panel on the instrument panel. Pushing the switch in starts an electric pump in the nacelle which supplies hydraulic power for the feathering operation. When the propeller is fully feathered the push button automatically releases, stopping the pump. To stop the operation before feathering is complete, pull out the switch button by hand. To unfeather a propeller, the push-buttons witch must be manually held in the closed position until unfeathering has been accomplished.
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Yes, it is possible to put the propeller into "feather" pitch with the prop (RPM) lever on the console. But the feather button in most aircraft also triggers several other actions to isolate the engine at the firewall by closing valves to shut off fuel, oil, hydraulic fluid flow, disconnect electrical connections and arm the fire extinguisher bottle (if equipped). Some propellers, once feathered, a pin drops into place and will require maintenance to reset the pin and manually move the blade back to a normal pitch position.
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Yes, it is possible to put the propeller into "feather" pitch with the prop (RPM) lever on the console. But the feather button in most aircraft also triggers several other actions to isolate the engine at the firewall by closing valves to shut off fuel, oil, hydraulic fluid flow, disconnect electrical connections and arm the fire extinguisher bottle (if equipped). Some propellers, once feathered, a pin drops into place and will require maintenance to reset the pin and manually move the blade back to a normal pitch position.
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Not yet allowed to post links here but if anyone is interested in an excellent tour around and in the B-17 including feathering procedures try doing a search with this key words
The mentioned procedure is at the end. That guy did a superb job presenting the aircraft he flies!
B-17 Flying Fortress Walkaround Aluminum Overcast
The mentioned procedure is at the end. That guy did a superb job presenting the aircraft he flies!
B-17 Flying Fortress Walkaround Aluminum Overcast
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It has something to do with the message editing interface which was recently 'improved'. Supposedly you can look at the source code with the button on the menu bar and hand patch the HTML tags. I try to clean up the formatting before I post but sometimes just give up.
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Yes, it is possible to put the propeller into "feather" pitch with the prop (RPM) lever on the console. But the feather button in most aircraft also triggers several other actions to isolate the engine at the firewall by closing valves to shut off fuel, oil, hydraulic fluid flow, disconnect electrical connections and arm the fire extinguisher bottle (if equipped). Some propellers, once feathered, a pin drops into place and will require maintenance to reset the pin and manually move the blade back to a normal pitch position.
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Yes, it is possible to put the propeller into "feather" pitch with the prop (RPM) lever on the console. But the feather button in most aircraft also triggers several other actions to isolate the engine at the firewall by closing valves to shut off fuel, oil, hydraulic fluid flow, disconnect electrical connections and arm the fire extinguisher bottle (if equipped). Some propellers, once feathered, a pin drops into place and will require maintenance to reset the pin and manually move the blade back to a normal pitch position.
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As a general statement, like the DC-3, Cessna 310, and and a few other types, the B-17 has split flaps. Unlike plain or Fowler flaps, split flaps do a lot more for drag, than lift when extended. Were I to be trying to "make the field" with less than the power I wished I had, I would not be lowering any split flap, until I was fairly sure of making the runway. Faster approach speed, yes, but better than all that drag if you think you can't make it. I can't speak for this unfortunate situation, but that's what I imagine...
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As a general statement, like the DC-3, Cessna 310, and and a few other types, the B-17 has split flaps. Unlike plain or Fowler flaps, split flaps do a lot more for drag, than lift when extended. Were I to be trying to "make the field" with less than the power I wished I had, I would not be lowering any split flap, until I was fairly sure of making the runway. Faster approach speed, yes, but better than all that drag if you think you can't make it. I can't speak for this unfortunate situation, but that's what I imagine...
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It would be interesting to see their flight track, any link for that?
300 feet on downwind is nothing but very low, Wonder why/when they extended the gear and did not choose RWY 33.
300 feet on downwind is nothing but very low, Wonder why/when they extended the gear and did not choose RWY 33.
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Thanks for the link.
Unfortunately it looks that it only shows the time they spend above an altitude of Aprox. 570 feet. ( Maybe 35% of their flight time )
Guess they did a very short base. Anyone knows? Have not been able to find any videos of their flight, less so of their base and final.
Wish the controller would have given a heads up that they could use any runway they wished and 33 was available if it was. (I am aware they did not declare an emergency)
Mid field downwind at 300 feet probably indicates they had no power on two engines already there. That makes one wonder about their consciousness about their energy state and dropping the gear instead of planning for a belly landing till the runway was clearly reachable.
That flight crew was very experienced, who knows what they were dealing with. My respects to them, just scratching my head of how this all ended up this way.
Unfortunately it looks that it only shows the time they spend above an altitude of Aprox. 570 feet. ( Maybe 35% of their flight time )
Guess they did a very short base. Anyone knows? Have not been able to find any videos of their flight, less so of their base and final.
Wish the controller would have given a heads up that they could use any runway they wished and 33 was available if it was. (I am aware they did not declare an emergency)
Mid field downwind at 300 feet probably indicates they had no power on two engines already there. That makes one wonder about their consciousness about their energy state and dropping the gear instead of planning for a belly landing till the runway was clearly reachable.
That flight crew was very experienced, who knows what they were dealing with. My respects to them, just scratching my head of how this all ended up this way.
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T
Mid field downwind at 300 feet probably indicates they had no power on two engines already there. That makes one wonder about their consciousness about their energy state and dropping the gear instead of planning for a belly landing till the runway was clearly reachable.
Mid field downwind at 300 feet probably indicates they had no power on two engines already there. That makes one wonder about their consciousness about their energy state and dropping the gear instead of planning for a belly landing till the runway was clearly reachable.
Also, did anyone hear if there was a voice recorder installed? It would be difficult and probably impractical to install a meaningful FDR on an aircraft of that vintage, but a CVR would be reasonably easy.
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Do not know how well the B-17 performs with one engine out but specialy on the old radial engine aircrafts I flew we did retract the gear ASAP, even more so with an Eng. failure.
Those tired birds would hardly climb.
One of the first priotities with an Eng. failure was to reduce power on the tired or tired ones left alive to avoid a second failure.
Not trying to imply anything here.
Those tired birds would hardly climb.
One of the first priotities with an Eng. failure was to reduce power on the tired or tired ones left alive to avoid a second failure.
Not trying to imply anything here.
The gear is electrically operated on the B-17, and quite slow compared to hydraulic gear on more modern types. I don’t believe that the aircraft could climb much on two engines regardless of the gear position,
What evidence is there that two engines were shut down? The previous mention of low pitch prop blade angles on the number three prop suggest blades not quite feathered, not blades in fine pitch.
What evidence is there that two engines were shut down? The previous mention of low pitch prop blade angles on the number three prop suggest blades not quite feathered, not blades in fine pitch.
