BAW492 diversion at Gibraltar

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Direct Law and then lateral PIO seems very plausible as incident speculation goes. Something which this forum has thrived on from its very earliest days.

Screaming “wait for the official report” is like being angry at the sea for drowning people.


WWW

[speedrestriction]

Originally Posted by FlightDetent

....
The bank angles shown on the videos are hard to explain with a simple PIO, even if in direct law. AAIB will tell.

Will the AAIB investigate? Was there any damage or was anybody injured?

Personally speaking, I would be surprised if the crew waited for a wind shear warning if the aircraft dropped into direct law on approach at most airports, and especially at GIB. It’s not a place where you can afford to muck around in with a medium size airliner.

[Fursty Ferret]

Co Pilot handling the approach-BA SOP. At some point a double R Alt. fault/indication occurred which put the aircraft into Direct Law. (aircraft handles like a normal non FBW plane)
The co-pilot flew the Wind Sheer Go-around.

I've flown a windshear escape maneuver in the sim when an unpredicted side-effect of a new lesson plan managed to simulate a dual rad-alt failure and a windshear encounter simultaneously. It's not a scenario I'd wish on anyone, especially as the failure occurred literally as I pushed the thrust levers forward. The startle effect; the totally unexpected aircraft response of a violent and uncontrollable pitch-up (prompt nose down trim is the only way to fix this, and you have to do this while you're sitting in approach to stall), loss of roll stability, and the escape from the windshear frightened me absolutely rigid. It's easy to tell yourself it's a simulator after the event, but the reality is that your brain doesn't process it that way.

We "survived", but I'm in a cold sweat writing about it six years later. If it genuinely was the fault suggested above, then my humble opinion is that it was very well flown given the circumstances.

[Capt Fathom]

Originally Posted by FlightDetent

The bank angles shown on the videos are hard to explain with a simple PIO, even if in direct law. AAIB will tell.

If there was no report submitted by the crew, there will be no AAIB investigation!

[jcomm]

Apparently Airbuses are prone to this rocking ( ? )
There was this case some years ago with a TAP, landing LPPT 21 on a windy / sheary... day :

You Tube

[FlightDetent]

Originally Posted by speedrestriction

Will the AAIB investigate? Was there any damage or was anybody injured?

For PIO most certainly not. In the other suggested case of an FBW self-induced, uncommanded oscillations I am sure they will, based on a mandatory report by the operator.

jcomm That's pilot induced, watch how the aeroplane stabilizes once the crew stops trying. If you adjust for the sound delay, wings go level immediately once go-around thrust is set.

[OBK!]

Apparently the autopilot was in the whole time.

[FCeng84]

OBK! - do you have a reference for this statement? Does this mean that the autopilot was engaged during both the period of roll oscillation and during the subsequent recovery to wings level flight? That would pretty much rule out any further discussion of PIO for this one.

[Hotel Mode]

Originally Posted by FCeng84

OBK! - do you have a reference for this statement? Does this mean that the autopilot was engaged during both the period of roll oscillation and during the subsequent recovery to wings level flight? That would pretty much rule out any further discussion of PIO for this one.

I'm assuming they have read the same email as me. So yes. Autopilot engaged throughout. Oscillations stopped on gear up/F3.

[LTNman]

Not sure if this has been on here before but this is the long version from inside the aircraft and starts 36 seconds before the cabin crew are told to take their seat for landing

You Tube

[GordonR_Cape]

Originally Posted by LTNman

Not sure if this has been on here before but this is the long version from inside the aircraft and starts 36 seconds before the cabin crew are told to take their seat for landing

Several versions linked earlier in this thread were clones and taken down due to copyright violation. The owner Dave Clough has become an accidental video sensation. An edited version showing only the most relevant portion of the flight was uploaded by him yesterday:

You Tube

[DaveReidUK]

Originally Posted by LTNman

Not sure if this has been on here before but this is the long version from inside the aircraft and starts 36 seconds before the cabin crew are told to take their seat for landing

Action starts at around 5:45.

[cessnapete]

Originally Posted by DaveReidUK

Action starts at around 5:45.

Again, not an Airbus man, but surely if such wild oscilations occurred with Auto pilot engaged, would you not disengage and fly the aircraft manually?

[Doug E Style]

Originally Posted by cessnapete

Again, not an Airbus man, but surely if such wild oscilations occurred with Auto pilot engaged, would you not disengage and fly the aircraft manually?

Well, that all depends on what was going on at the time, doesn’t it? If you were in the middle of a windshear escape manoeuvre in an area well known for extreme turbulence in the prevailing conditions would you really increase your workload by taking the autopilot out? I’m not sure I would but then I wasn’t there at the time. None of us were.

[Capn Bloggs]

Well, that all depends on what was going on at the time, doesn’t it? If you were in the middle of a windshear escape manoeuvre in an area well known for extreme turbulence in the prevailing conditions would you really increase your workload by taking the autopilot out? I’m not sure I would but then I wasn’t there at the time. None of us were.

That wasn't a windshear escape, it was quite consistent major rhythmic oscillations that went on and on. If it was a windshear escape in my aeroplane, I'd be getting rid of the AP PDQ. That thing had lost the plot if the AP was in.

[pineteam]

Hard to beleive the AP was on. It’s so stable regardless of the outside condition when AP is engaged and I beleive it would trip off in such case. But yeah, I was not there also.

[Kerosene Kraut]

If PIO why would it last for so long and be so regular? If not why leave on the autopilot at all?

[pineteam]

Very plausible with a set of crew who never hand fly... In the other hand I never saw or heard an A 320 behaving like this with AP. But I might be wrong. Let's wait for the final report. Hopefully we can access it.

[Doug E Style]

Originally Posted by Capn Bloggs

That wasn't a windshear escape, it was quite consistent major rhythmic oscillations that went on and on. If it was a windshear escape in my aeroplane, I'd be getting rid of the AP PDQ. That thing had lost the plot if the AP was in.

If you can say what your actions would have been after having a bit of a think about it having watched a couple of posted videos, rather than the information available to the crew, not to mention the considerable “startle-factor”, then that’s a bit worrying.

[PassengerOnBoard]

What report can we expect?

Originally Posted by pineteam

Very plausible with a set of crew who never hand fly... In the other hand I never saw or heard an A 320 behaving like this with AP. But I might be wrong. Let's wait for the final report. Hopefully we can access it.

What kind of report can we expect?
If there was a fault wouldn’t this be classed as a incident? The official explation is that it was caused by weather conditions.
I believe the aircraft flew back after we were dropped off at Malaga, would this confirm no issues with the aircraft?

It’s a pity that data on all abortive landings is not shared automatically.

Thanks everyone for sharing experience and theories. I will be back on this route next week, not the scariest landing I’ve had at Gibraltar in terms of weather but just sensed a loss of control on this landing.