Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Accidents and Close Calls
Reload this Page >

Cardiff City Footballer Feared Missing after aircraft disappeared near Channel Island

Accidents and Close Calls Discussion on accidents, close calls, and other unplanned aviation events, so we can learn from them, and be better pilots ourselves.

Cardiff City Footballer Feared Missing after aircraft disappeared near Channel Island

Old 12th Sep 2019, 20:59
  #2041 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: S.E.Asia
Posts: 1,953
Received 10 Likes on 4 Posts
The latest AAIB bulletin featuring this accident is here https://assets.publishing.service.go...019_Lo_Res.pdf

The AAIB published Special Bulletin S1/2019 on 25 February 20191 to give preliminary information on the investigation and general information about how aircraft registered in the USA may be operated between the UK and France.
This Special Bulletin contains medical information relevant to the accident to highlight the implications of that information to the General Aviation community.
Results of toxicology tests
Toxicology tests on the blood of the passenger showed a carboxyhaemoglobin (COHb) saturation level of 58%. COHb is the combination product of carbon monoxide (CO) with haemoglobin, the oxygen-carrying protein molecule contained in red blood cells.
CO is a colourless, odourless gas produced from the incomplete combustion of carbon-containing materials. It readily combines with haemoglobin in the blood, decreasing the carriage of oxygen and causing a direct effect on the performance of those parts of the body which rely on oxygen for proper function. A COHb level of 50% or above in an otherwise healthy individual is generally considered to be potentially fatal.
In this type of aircraft, the cockpit is not separated from the cabin2 and it is considered likely that the pilot would also have been affected to some extent by exposure to CO.
Symptoms following exposure to carbon monoxide
Exposure to CO can lead to damage to the brain, heart and nervous system. The symptoms of CO poisoning worsen with an increasing percentage of COHb as detailed in Table 1.
COHb level
Symptoms
Less than 10%
None
20 to 30%
Drowsiness, headache, slight increase in respiratory rate, dizziness
30 to 40%
Impaired judgement, difficulty breathing, blurring of vision, bad headache, increasing drowsiness, stomach pain
40 to 50%
Confusion, blurred vision, shortness of breath, pounding headache, vertigo, loss of coordination, chest pain, memory loss
Over 50%
Seizure, unconsciousness, heart attack
Table 1
Symptoms of increasing levels of COHb
It is clear from the symptoms that exposure to CO can reduce or inhibit a pilot’s ability to fly an aircraft depending on the level of that exposure.

The AAIB is working with the aircraft and engine manufacturers and the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) in the USA to identify possible pathways through which CO might enter the cabin of this type of aircraft. Work is also continuing to investigate pertinent operational, technical, organisational and human factors which might have contributed to the accident.
Mike Flynn is offline  
Old 12th Sep 2019, 22:50
  #2042 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Reading, UK
Posts: 15,787
Received 196 Likes on 90 Posts
Originally Posted by Mike Flynn
The latest AAIB bulletin featuring this accident is here https://assets.publishing.service.go...019_Lo_Res.pdf
The part of the Bulletin relating to the accident appears to be just a reprint of Special Bulletin S2/2019, published a month ago.

DaveReidUK is offline  
Old 14th Sep 2019, 15:14
  #2043 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by BigEndBob
But would it be heard through noise cancelling headphones?
​​​​​​
Definitely. Absolutely 100%.
Edward Teach is offline  
Old 14th Sep 2019, 19:46
  #2044 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: S.E.Asia
Posts: 1,953
Received 10 Likes on 4 Posts
A large flashing light linked to a carbon monoxide detector might be a better idea.
Mike Flynn is offline  
Old 23rd Sep 2019, 14:56
  #2045 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Hotel this week, hotel next week, home whenever...
Posts: 1,492
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
BBC breaking news - pair jailed for the Mortuary Photos of Sala.
Duchess_Driver is offline  
Old 30th Sep 2019, 18:05
  #2046 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 1,464
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Emiliano Sala: Fifa rules Cardiff must pay first instalment of £5.3m to Nantes
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49825166
cats_five is offline  
Old 30th Sep 2019, 19:25
  #2047 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Bear Island
Posts: 598
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by cats_five
Emiliano Sala: Fifa rules Cardiff must pay first instalment of £5.3m to Nantes
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49825166
So what ? this is an aviation forum, not a football forum.
Teddy Robinson is offline  
Old 30th Sep 2019, 20:27
  #2048 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: NW England
Posts: 100
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Originally Posted by Teddy Robinson
So what ? this is an aviation forum, not a football forum.
A British business being so out of pocket will bring more pressure to bear on scrutiny of the arrangements made for the flight and, by extension, any future arrangements for such flights all of which is entirely aviation related.
Q.E.D.
Hadley Rille is offline  
Old 30th Sep 2019, 21:29
  #2049 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: S.E.Asia
Posts: 1,953
Received 10 Likes on 4 Posts
Originally Posted by Hadley Rille
A British business being so out of pocket will bring more pressure to bear on scrutiny of the arrangements made for the flight and, by extension, any future arrangements for such flights all of which is entirely aviation related.
Q.E.D.
As I see it there will be more focus on the grey areas that have existed with jockey flights etc and US registered aircraft operating in the UK but owned by UK residents.

Insurance companies might assess this arena as not worth the risk

Mike Flynn is offline  
Old 1st Oct 2019, 15:40
  #2050 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: York
Age: 68
Posts: 250
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I sincerely hope so, but have my doubts.
I suspect the majority of AOC holders have been banging their collective heads against the wall trying to stop this so called and badly named grey charter business.
I sometimes wonder how many Pilots " Don't" know someone who is doing this.
ak7274 is offline  
Old 1st Oct 2019, 16:45
  #2051 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Stockport MAN/EGCC
Age: 70
Posts: 991
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Originally Posted by The AvgasDinosaur

I can’t help but wonder why, if all these ‘Air-Grey’ charters are being flown visibly from UK airfields the resident AOC holders have not done so.
Or have they reported them and been ignored ? Several correspondents on here seem to be well aware of what’s been going on.
Has it been reported and ignored or has it just been ignored?
Be lucky
David
Any comments or observations
David
The AvgasDinosaur is offline  
Old 2nd Oct 2019, 10:01
  #2052 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Central UK
Posts: 1,576
Received 123 Likes on 60 Posts
I'm afraid it comes under the "all too difficult" heading at the CAA. I expect they have a pretty good idea who is doing this but realistically it is very hard to obtain sufficient proof to get a conviction. If they ramp-check an aircraft at a race meeting they can't detain passengers or question them and the pilot will simply say no money changed hands so it's a private flight. Who'se to say different?
Even in a case as high-profile as this the complex paper-trail of ownership seems to hve been extremely difficult to follow and if all the protagonists deny any knowledge or say it wasn't me, someone else organised it prosecution seems agonisingly slow and difficult.
meleagertoo is offline  
Old 7th Oct 2019, 09:50
  #2053 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Here 'n' there!
Posts: 582
Received 9 Likes on 5 Posts
Originally Posted by meleagertoo
I'm afraid it comes under the "all too difficult" heading at the CAA. I expect they have a pretty good idea who is doing this .........
Sadly the case meleagertoo, and not helped at all by the regulators themselves who actively "approve" the Wingly's of this world and, thereby, seem to further cloud the "grey" area - even in the minds of those of us involved in the industry. What hope does "Joe (and/or Jacquie!) Public" have to be aware of the legal questions/pitfalls of such flights?

As it is, there is another thread running about how active pilots gloss over the risks involved with GA when just talking to their loved ones - in case they get "grounded" by their families! If we pilots have difficulty justifying the risks.....

Occasionally there are cases where prosecutions are successful but, sadly, usually after the event when the evidence is, ahem, planted in a field (as in the case of the Barton Birdwatchers)! As has been previously stated, I think the Insurers will be the ones to lead on this - not that a little matter such as the integrity of the insurance cover will overly worry those involved in such practices.

What a mess! H 'n' H
Hot 'n' High is offline  
Old 7th Oct 2019, 10:17
  #2054 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Co. Down
Age: 82
Posts: 828
Received 234 Likes on 73 Posts
The 'charter' business was flourishing when I was learning to fly 55 years ago. I know of three fatal accidents involving such trips, one fortunately on his way to pick up his passengers (hence his need to fly into IMC containing a very large rock) another in which the pilot was killed but passenger escaped with serious injuries and the third in which both persons died on a photographic trip which went 'just a bit lower and slower' for a better picture.

I agree with Hot'n'High that insurance may be the key. People need to be told that life insurance policies associated with mortgages, businesses etc. do not cover private flights, the normal requirement being a multi-engined aircraft flown by a commercial pilot under an AOC. If you get killed, and Wingly and the like carry a greater risk, then your family will be left penniless. One such case has already been highlighted in this thread. It is possible to obtain this cover, as I did in our flying days, but the premium loading will be substantial to reflect the extra risk.
Geriaviator is offline  
Old 6th Nov 2019, 20:31
  #2055 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Cambridge UK
Posts: 190
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Emiliano Sala family queries timing of carbon monoxide tests

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-50316013
Peter H is offline  
Old 14th Jan 2020, 12:30
  #2056 (permalink)  
Aso
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Belgium
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Any news on when the report will be out?
Aso is offline  
Old 21st Jan 2020, 11:01
  #2057 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Often in Jersey, but mainly in the past.
Age: 79
Posts: 7,786
Received 129 Likes on 58 Posts
From today's Jersey Evening Post ...
‘Our investigation is now at an advanced stage and we intend to publish our final report by the end of March 2020.’
Full article here >>> https://jerseyeveningpost.com/news/2...-within-weeks/

MPN11 is offline  
Old 21st Jan 2020, 15:42
  #2058 (permalink)  
Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 14,202
Received 46 Likes on 24 Posts
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/p...sary-statement

G
Genghis the Engineer is offline  
Old 4th Mar 2020, 23:22
  #2059 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Cardiff
Posts: 615
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
AAIB final report to be published on March 13th.
runway30 is offline  
Old 11th Mar 2020, 13:07
  #2060 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: York
Age: 68
Posts: 250
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
BBC News - Emiliano Sala: No further action after manslaughter arrest
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-51831150
ak7274 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.