Cardiff City Footballer Feared Missing after aircraft disappeared near Channel Island
Ok, just to stoke the fire...
In light of the CO reading, why has nobody speculated that this may have been a controlled descent/ controlled ditching?
Crash landing in water makes blunt force tramua- fact.
Crash landing causes fire- fact.
Fire makes CO- fact.
Could this have been an attempted ditching gone wrong... or right...
Hard landing causes injuries & possible unconsciousness, meanwhile fire consumes aircraft and CO enters bloodstream.
In light of the CO reading, why has nobody speculated that this may have been a controlled descent/ controlled ditching?
Crash landing in water makes blunt force tramua- fact.
Crash landing causes fire- fact.
Fire makes CO- fact.
Could this have been an attempted ditching gone wrong... or right...
Hard landing causes injuries & possible unconsciousness, meanwhile fire consumes aircraft and CO enters bloodstream.
Yes, obviously that's what happened. I'm stunned that no one has seen this before...
PDR
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What a stupid post by positiverate. It's far more likely that the CO incapacitated pilot and passenger, and the blunt force trauma killed one or both of them.
I wonder if Sala was seated with his seat harness/strap securely fastened? Ibbo might even have survived the crash 🤷🏻, who knows!
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Where have you read that? The BBC? Who also confirmed N264DB was a turboprop!
The official releases from the AAIB state that there was one body present in the wreckage. They make no mention of the body being strapped into the seat.
The official releases from the AAIB state that there was one body present in the wreckage. They make no mention of the body being strapped into the seat.
G
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Lets face it CO from the exhaust would probably include all the other horrible stuff that stinks.
Even a miss placed crank case vent put fumes in the cockpit that made me feel ill.
Even a miss placed crank case vent put fumes in the cockpit that made me feel ill.
A cracked muffler may be directly in the cabin heat system. A very cracked muffler may put noticeable exhaust into the cabin. A slightly cracked muffler may put a hazardous amount of CO into the cabin, without any noticeable exhaust smell. I have experienced this personally. It is not safe to assume that you will detect hazardous amounts of CO by smelling exhaust.
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PDR ....Funnily enough they were my thoughts exactly 🤦🏻.
What a stupid post by positiverate. It's far more likely that the CO incapacitated pilot and passenger, and the blunt force trauma killed one or both of them.
I wonder if Sala was seated with his seat harness/strap securely fastened? Ibbo might even have survived the crash 🤷🏻, who knows!
What a stupid post by positiverate. It's far more likely that the CO incapacitated pilot and passenger, and the blunt force trauma killed one or both of them.
I wonder if Sala was seated with his seat harness/strap securely fastened? Ibbo might even have survived the crash 🤷🏻, who knows!
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The Mail has updated the story with a slant on ownership, management and maintenance of the aircraft.
Clearly a series of complicated legal cases will arise in the future.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...stered-US.html
The mystery owner of Emiliano Sala's private plane registered the aircraft in the US using a British company paid £450-a-year to help keep their identity secret, MailOnline can reveal today.
The Air Accidents Investigation Branch [AAIB], who revealed yesterday that Sala and his pilot David Ibbotson were poisoned by carbon monoxide seeping into the cabin, says its investigators have established the true identity of the UK-based owner.
But it is barred from revealing who it is because the records are held by the Federal Aviation Authority [FAA] in Washington DC whose own regulations prevent this crucial information being made public.
The FAA also chooses not to publish a plane's annual 'MOT' - known as a certificate of airworthiness - or when it is due to expire.
More than 600 UK-based plane owners have used the same loophole because aircraft registration in America is cheaper than in Britain and maintenance costs are also understood to be lower.
Airfield owner Humphrey Penney told MailOnline last night that the aircraft had 'a lot of problems' and was 'unfit to fly' in the months before it crashed in the Channel.
He also claimed that regular pilot David Henderson, who was arrested and bailed in June on suspicion of manslaughter, was 'unhappy with the maintenance' and also named 45-year-old Faye Keely, an accountant from Nottinghamshire, as the owner.
The ownership issue may prove vital to the question of who proves financially liable for the losses incurred by Cardiff City, who paid £15million for Sala.
A criminal prosecution is likely to follow the AAIB’s final report when it is published by the end of 2019.
FAA registration allows owners to protect their identity, for security or financial reasons, whereas in the UK the Civil Aviation Authority names the owner of every plane it with a UK licence.
Enquiries over the past year have centred on Faye Keely's mysterious firm Cool Flourish, listed at Companies House as a management consultancy business.
She is the company’s major shareholder and is listed by the companies register as resident at a property at Alfreton, Derbyshire, which is deserted and unfurnished.
Another director, her sister Heather Keely, 41, has also not been traced, while a mansion listed as the home of an older former director Terence Keely - believed to be their father - is also empty.
The AAIB says it cannot name the owner but a report earlier this year said the person it belonged to 'had an informal arrangement with a third party to manage the aircraft on its behalf'.
Regular pilot David Henderson was expected to fly the plane from Nantes to Cardiff on January 21 this year - but has never spoken about why he pulled out only to confirm that he was alive after the flight manifest in France allegedly named him as pilot.
He was arrested in June on suspicion of the manslaughter of Sala and his pilot David Ibbotson, 59, from Scunthorpe, who also perished in the air disaster, but remains on bail two months later.
The doomed Piper Malibu aircraft that crashed in the Channel on January 21 was registered to a small British firm called the Southern Aircraft Consultancy which charges £450 per year to hold the plane in an American trust.
The business in Bungay, Suffolk is understood to manage hundreds of aircraft registered in the same way.
Mysteriously 39-year-old aircraft's listing with the US Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) states that there were no previous owners.
And in 2015 it changed hands four times in a single day, MailOnline understands.
The British engineer who inspected the Piper Malibu aircraft in the months before the crash told MailOnline was so riddled with faults that an engineer had refused to repair it, saying: 'It was not fit to be flown.'
Details of owners of the aircraft have been shrouded in mystery.
One person who is known to have a connection to the aircraft is David Henderson - the pilot who was reportedly due to fly it but pulled out at the 11th hour.
Mr Henderson from York, was filmed by the BBC with the plane at Retford Gamston Airport in 2015 for a feature transporting small planes across continents to new owners.
Humphrey Penney, who is also a licensed engineer, was asked to give a second opinion on the stricken Piper PA-46 Malibu in summer last year and said he believes that it was unsafe.
He spoke out for the first time following yesterday's interim report published by the UK Air Accidents Investigation Branch which showed that 28-year-old Argentinian striker Sala and his pilot David Ibbotson were exposed to deadly levels of the toxic gas even before the private plane plunged into the English Channel.
Speaking exclusively to MailOnline, Mr Penney said: 'What happened it all so sad and tragic. We had deep concerns about the plane when we looked it at a year ago. We nearly took it on but didn't because there were so many problems with it.'
Mr Henderson, originally thought to be the pilot who perished on the plane, had taken it to Sandtoft Airport in Belton, North Lincolnshire, on behalf of the owner chartered accountant Faye Keely.
Sandtoft boss Mr Penney, recalling his examination of the plane, said: 'Christ, this is awful! A lot needs doing.'
He added: 'The hydraulic motor was a shambles and the flaps, autopilot and de-icing system weren't working and there were several other problems.
There was a long list of things things that needed doing and it was going to cost an awful lot of money to put it right, in the region of £14,000 to £20,000.
'It was not in a fit state to be flown for a passenger but only in an emergency a short distance for maintenance and to get it fixed.'
The American craft registered to a Trust with a beneficial British owner, Ms Keely from Bonsall, Derbyshire - a pilot herself - had come to Mr Penney for a second expert opinion from Retford Gamston Airport in Gamston, Nottinghamshire, where it had been based long term.
Mr Penney said: 'It was moved here for a relatively short period and we then sent it to another organisation for the recommended work to be done. I can't comment on what work was later done.'
The plane was moved to nearby Sturgate Airfield in Gainsborough, Lincolnshire. No one was available to comment when approached by MailOnline.
Mr Penney added: 'I cannot say if the maintenance was done thoroughly and properly and if it was all fixed but the plane would have had an annual inspection at the end of the year. If all was good and dandy the plane should have flown safely.
'I know a very large bill for over £10,000 was presented to Faye.'
Mr Penney, is now helping air investigators following the shocking crash on January 21 killing new £15 million Cardiff City striker Sala and married father Mr Ibbotson, 59, from Scunthorpe, Lincolnshire,
The Air Accidents Investigation Branch [AAIB], who revealed yesterday that Sala and his pilot David Ibbotson were poisoned by carbon monoxide seeping into the cabin, says its investigators have established the true identity of the UK-based owner.
But it is barred from revealing who it is because the records are held by the Federal Aviation Authority [FAA] in Washington DC whose own regulations prevent this crucial information being made public.
The FAA also chooses not to publish a plane's annual 'MOT' - known as a certificate of airworthiness - or when it is due to expire.
More than 600 UK-based plane owners have used the same loophole because aircraft registration in America is cheaper than in Britain and maintenance costs are also understood to be lower.
Airfield owner Humphrey Penney told MailOnline last night that the aircraft had 'a lot of problems' and was 'unfit to fly' in the months before it crashed in the Channel.
He also claimed that regular pilot David Henderson, who was arrested and bailed in June on suspicion of manslaughter, was 'unhappy with the maintenance' and also named 45-year-old Faye Keely, an accountant from Nottinghamshire, as the owner.
The ownership issue may prove vital to the question of who proves financially liable for the losses incurred by Cardiff City, who paid £15million for Sala.
A criminal prosecution is likely to follow the AAIB’s final report when it is published by the end of 2019.
FAA registration allows owners to protect their identity, for security or financial reasons, whereas in the UK the Civil Aviation Authority names the owner of every plane it with a UK licence.
Enquiries over the past year have centred on Faye Keely's mysterious firm Cool Flourish, listed at Companies House as a management consultancy business.
She is the company’s major shareholder and is listed by the companies register as resident at a property at Alfreton, Derbyshire, which is deserted and unfurnished.
Another director, her sister Heather Keely, 41, has also not been traced, while a mansion listed as the home of an older former director Terence Keely - believed to be their father - is also empty.
The AAIB says it cannot name the owner but a report earlier this year said the person it belonged to 'had an informal arrangement with a third party to manage the aircraft on its behalf'.
Regular pilot David Henderson was expected to fly the plane from Nantes to Cardiff on January 21 this year - but has never spoken about why he pulled out only to confirm that he was alive after the flight manifest in France allegedly named him as pilot.
He was arrested in June on suspicion of the manslaughter of Sala and his pilot David Ibbotson, 59, from Scunthorpe, who also perished in the air disaster, but remains on bail two months later.
The doomed Piper Malibu aircraft that crashed in the Channel on January 21 was registered to a small British firm called the Southern Aircraft Consultancy which charges £450 per year to hold the plane in an American trust.
The business in Bungay, Suffolk is understood to manage hundreds of aircraft registered in the same way.
Mysteriously 39-year-old aircraft's listing with the US Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) states that there were no previous owners.
And in 2015 it changed hands four times in a single day, MailOnline understands.
The British engineer who inspected the Piper Malibu aircraft in the months before the crash told MailOnline was so riddled with faults that an engineer had refused to repair it, saying: 'It was not fit to be flown.'
Details of owners of the aircraft have been shrouded in mystery.
One person who is known to have a connection to the aircraft is David Henderson - the pilot who was reportedly due to fly it but pulled out at the 11th hour.
Mr Henderson from York, was filmed by the BBC with the plane at Retford Gamston Airport in 2015 for a feature transporting small planes across continents to new owners.
Humphrey Penney, who is also a licensed engineer, was asked to give a second opinion on the stricken Piper PA-46 Malibu in summer last year and said he believes that it was unsafe.
He spoke out for the first time following yesterday's interim report published by the UK Air Accidents Investigation Branch which showed that 28-year-old Argentinian striker Sala and his pilot David Ibbotson were exposed to deadly levels of the toxic gas even before the private plane plunged into the English Channel.
Speaking exclusively to MailOnline, Mr Penney said: 'What happened it all so sad and tragic. We had deep concerns about the plane when we looked it at a year ago. We nearly took it on but didn't because there were so many problems with it.'
Mr Henderson, originally thought to be the pilot who perished on the plane, had taken it to Sandtoft Airport in Belton, North Lincolnshire, on behalf of the owner chartered accountant Faye Keely.
Sandtoft boss Mr Penney, recalling his examination of the plane, said: 'Christ, this is awful! A lot needs doing.'
He added: 'The hydraulic motor was a shambles and the flaps, autopilot and de-icing system weren't working and there were several other problems.
There was a long list of things things that needed doing and it was going to cost an awful lot of money to put it right, in the region of £14,000 to £20,000.
'It was not in a fit state to be flown for a passenger but only in an emergency a short distance for maintenance and to get it fixed.'
The American craft registered to a Trust with a beneficial British owner, Ms Keely from Bonsall, Derbyshire - a pilot herself - had come to Mr Penney for a second expert opinion from Retford Gamston Airport in Gamston, Nottinghamshire, where it had been based long term.
Mr Penney said: 'It was moved here for a relatively short period and we then sent it to another organisation for the recommended work to be done. I can't comment on what work was later done.'
The plane was moved to nearby Sturgate Airfield in Gainsborough, Lincolnshire. No one was available to comment when approached by MailOnline.
Mr Penney added: 'I cannot say if the maintenance was done thoroughly and properly and if it was all fixed but the plane would have had an annual inspection at the end of the year. If all was good and dandy the plane should have flown safely.
'I know a very large bill for over £10,000 was presented to Faye.'
Mr Penney, is now helping air investigators following the shocking crash on January 21 killing new £15 million Cardiff City striker Sala and married father Mr Ibbotson, 59, from Scunthorpe, Lincolnshire,
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...stered-US.html
Last edited by Mike Flynn; 15th Aug 2019 at 19:24.
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Illegal CAT still goes on despite this sorry mess, reporting it achieves bugger all. This was a high profile accident, I know of at least 2 others, one with no injuries, one where just the pilot died. Hopefully Sala’s death may help shine a light on all the cowboys who think that what they do is acceptable practice.
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As an example, we used to run a early Seneca as a taxi, back in the 70s. On a trip with px, the first indication of a problem was the front seat passenger threw up suddenly. The pilot guessed the cause and shut off the heating while diverting to the nearest airfield. He then bought the a/c back to base for us to look at it. I found a hole in the stb engine cowling in front of the intake for the heating. The exhaust had cracked and the gas had burned it's way through the GRP on it's way to the intake. Since we needed the a/c the next day, I pulled the manafold for the approved welder to fix and worked late into the night at home remoulding the cowling with a slight bump to give a bit more clearance over the pipe. I told the CAA area surveyor, but I can't remember now if it resulted in any action.
I expect modding the cowling would be a no-no now.
I expect modding the cowling would be a no-no now.
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Maintenance on an FAA registered aircraft has to be signed off by either an FAA licenced mechanic or an FAA Approved Repair Station. Be interesting to see which in this case.
I am surprised and very impressed that it was possible to quantify CO-Hb in a body that had been underwater for so long - I trust they are really confident. I would have expected all the post mortem changes of pH and osmolarity to mess-up the protein 3d structure and destroy the binding sites. I guess they measure the ratio of COHb : O2Hb, but they must break down at a differential rate depending on all sorts of factors. Of course it must be very cold at depth in the English Channel which will help. I am not doubting the result, but I must say a 2nd body with the same evidence would have greatly increased the confidence this this wasn't some kind of artifact.
Last edited by double_barrel; 16th Aug 2019 at 11:08.
But they probably don't read the Daily Mail.
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I am surprised and very impressed that it was possible to quantify CO-Hb in a body that had been underwater for so long - I trust they are really confident. I would have expected all the post mortem changes of pH and osmolarity to mess-up the protein 3d structure and destroy the binding sites. I guess they measure the ratio of COHb : O2Hb, but they must break down at a differential rate depending on all sorts of factors. Of course it must be very cold at depth in the English Channel which will help. I am not doubting the result, but I must say a 2nd body with the same evidence would have greatly increased the confidence this this wasn't some kind of artifact.
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The Mail has updated the story with a slant on ownership, management and maintenance of the aircraft.
Clearly a series of complicated legal cases will arise in the future.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...stered-US.html
Clearly a series of complicated legal cases will arise in the future.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...stered-US.html