Cardiff City Footballer Feared Missing after aircraft disappeared near Channel Island
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If you have a valuable Grade A asset why not employ a Grade A operator to fly that asset around! The cost of an exec jet with experienced ATPLs flying it is peanuts compared with the value of someone like Sala. They would not have flown at 5,000 ft over the sea, VMC, at night but at FLs in controlled airspace. The radar plot of the final stage of the flight appears to indicate a classic spatial disorientation profile, a known problem in the prevailing conditions especially if a pilot is not instrument rated. AAIB will no doubt consider this possibility.
I am not up to date on the shared costs aspect but I believe that a pilot must be considered to be flying on his US licence for this type of sector, in which case the costs would have to be halved with two POB? As has been said the AAIB is not particularly interested in this apart from determining whether or not it is a commercial or private flight and what effect this had on safety,
I am not up to date on the shared costs aspect but I believe that a pilot must be considered to be flying on his US licence for this type of sector, in which case the costs would have to be halved with two POB? As has been said the AAIB is not particularly interested in this apart from determining whether or not it is a commercial or private flight and what effect this had on safety,
All very interesting. The AAIB have stated the investigation will If it transpires that Mr Ibbotson and Snr Sala were previously acquainted and had decided to share the cost of the flight, then everything was legal and there's nothing to see here. However, like many others, I seriously doubt this was the case.
No common purpose and no evidence of equal shares being paid.
No night rating.
No Instrument rating.
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Not so. No common purpose and no evidence of equal shares being paid.
No night rating. No Instrument rating.
No night rating. No Instrument rating.
No evidence of shared costs ; not relevant if it was a free flight.. In addition in my part of the word you have to prove things to accuse people , not because there is lack of evidence. And the UK , as far as I know is still a democratic country .
No night rating : yes and aggravating circumstances reinforcing the responsibility of the pilot
No IR : not relevant as the flight was filed VFR..
Do not find things to fit your suspicions. Nobody liked what happened and we all have serious suspicions , but t after 85 pages here , and unless new facts are brought in , for me the responsibility for this accident is still on the Pilot in command of that flight.
mainly because he did not say NO . He was not an employee , nor forced to do this flight and , and the aircraft was a private one.. If you want to prove it was a commercial flight in disguise then you have to brings facts on the table , a signed contract, a mission order , a money transfer to the pilot, etc.. in absence of any of this, it is just suspicions.
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That was the case in the UK until quiet recently.
CPL holders were counting night flight towards IFR requirements for single crew ops and a few other things so the changed it to align with the rest of Europe.
CPL holders were counting night flight towards IFR requirements for single crew ops and a few other things so the changed it to align with the rest of Europe.
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As the holder of an FAA ATP and former chief Pilot of a part 135 charter company I find it absurd that people such as ATC Watcher are continuing to portray this flight as a private part 91 operation.
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No common purpose. Not necessary if the flight was completely free (i.e. paid by the owner) .
No evidence of shared costs ; not relevant if it was a free flight.. In addition in my part of the word you have to prove things to accuse people , not because there is lack of evidence. And the UK , as far as I know is still a democratic country .
No night rating : yes and aggravating circumstances reinforcing the responsibility of the pilot
No IR : not relevant as the flight was filed VFR..
Do not find things to fit your suspicions. Nobody liked what happened and we all have serious suspicions , but t after 85 pages here , and unless new facts are brought in , for me the responsibility for this accident is still on the Pilot in command of that flight.
mainly because he did not say NO . He was not an employee , nor forced to do this flight and , and the aircraft was a private one.. If you want to prove it was a commercial flight in disguise then you have to brings facts on the table , a signed contract, a mission order , a money transfer to the pilot, etc.. in absence of any of this, it is just suspicions.
No evidence of shared costs ; not relevant if it was a free flight.. In addition in my part of the word you have to prove things to accuse people , not because there is lack of evidence. And the UK , as far as I know is still a democratic country .
No night rating : yes and aggravating circumstances reinforcing the responsibility of the pilot
No IR : not relevant as the flight was filed VFR..
Do not find things to fit your suspicions. Nobody liked what happened and we all have serious suspicions , but t after 85 pages here , and unless new facts are brought in , for me the responsibility for this accident is still on the Pilot in command of that flight.
mainly because he did not say NO . He was not an employee , nor forced to do this flight and , and the aircraft was a private one.. If you want to prove it was a commercial flight in disguise then you have to brings facts on the table , a signed contract, a mission order , a money transfer to the pilot, etc.. in absence of any of this, it is just suspicions.
"Willie McKay said it was not a cost-sharing agreement as "Emi wasn't paying anything" and that he was going to pay "whatever Dave [Henderson] was going to charge".
"When you phone for a taxi you don't ask him if he has a driving licence," he said.
You can say it as many times as you like, it doesn't change the fact that it was booked as a commercial flight. A decent legal eagle will rip the private flight argument to shreds.
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All very interesting. The AAIB have stated the investigation will.....Quote: 'Consider the regulatory requirements surrounding the flight including airworthiness requirements, aircraft permissions and flight crew licencing'
The AAIB or any independent Accident investigation bureau will not look into legal liabilities. Not they job and against Annex 13 spirit. , they will assess if the aircraft was airworthy, all AD,s were done maintenance records, , what it was allowed to do and check the licences of the pilot in command .. you will find all this in final report.
However, despite the claims of some on this forum who clearly have a vested interest that this was a private flight, thus passing all the blame onto the pilot, the whole thing is dodgier than a kosher pork pie and some wealthy people are out of pocket to the tune of 15 million. I suspect they will be looking at ways of recouping this in a civil case where the outcome will be decided on the balance of probabilities. If it comes to that, I don't think 'on balance' the odds are going to be in the defendants favour.
And I suspect the CAA will come down hard on the 'grey charter' market with increased regulation.
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No common purpose. Not necessary if the flight was completely free (i.e. paid by the owner) .
No evidence of shared costs ; not relevant if it was a free flight.. In addition in my part of the word you have to prove things to accuse people , not because there is lack of evidence. And the UK , as far as I know is still a democratic country .
No night rating : yes and aggravating circumstances reinforcing the responsibility of the pilot
No IR : not relevant as the flight was filed VFR..
Do not find things to fit your suspicions. Nobody liked what happened and we all have serious suspicions , but t after 85 pages here , and unless new facts are brought in , for me the responsibility for this accident is still on the Pilot in command of that flight.
mainly because he did not say NO . He was not an employee , nor forced to do this flight and , and the aircraft was a private one.. If you want to prove it was a commercial flight in disguise then you have to brings facts on the table , a signed contract, a mission order , a money transfer to the pilot, etc.. in absence of any of this, it is just suspicions.
No evidence of shared costs ; not relevant if it was a free flight.. In addition in my part of the word you have to prove things to accuse people , not because there is lack of evidence. And the UK , as far as I know is still a democratic country .
No night rating : yes and aggravating circumstances reinforcing the responsibility of the pilot
No IR : not relevant as the flight was filed VFR..
Do not find things to fit your suspicions. Nobody liked what happened and we all have serious suspicions , but t after 85 pages here , and unless new facts are brought in , for me the responsibility for this accident is still on the Pilot in command of that flight.
mainly because he did not say NO . He was not an employee , nor forced to do this flight and , and the aircraft was a private one.. If you want to prove it was a commercial flight in disguise then you have to brings facts on the table , a signed contract, a mission order , a money transfer to the pilot, etc.. in absence of any of this, it is just suspicions.
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I will be very interested to see if the CAA take some sort of stance on the Jockey flights
. And how the aircraft operators on these "none" commercial flights justify them by bending the rules so that they can carry on regardless.
. Maybe more ramp checks at Racecourses or a not so discreet chat with those who facilitate such flights.
. And how the aircraft operators on these "none" commercial flights justify them by bending the rules so that they can carry on regardless.
. Maybe more ramp checks at Racecourses or a not so discreet chat with those who facilitate such flights.
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Well if aircraft that were flying every weekend before this happened are now not flying regularly they can pretty much tell exactly which airframes that were being used for this sort of thing.
You will be surprised (although not others on this thread) of the information thats in the hands of the AAIB and CAA enforcements regarding this whole horrible mess. It was not a private flight in any shape or form, its was a purely commercial arrangement and the evidence is in the hands of the right people now. Its going to be an interesting couple of months coming up on this I think.
Yet I suspect anyone else not involved in this accident might simply quote the CAA's own guidance in defence of similar actions. You can read them in CAP1590 and this summary here:-
https://www.caa.co.uk/General-aviati...aring-flights/
I'm not sure who is sat around the table when these things get written but they are not the sharpest. Just see if you can spot the utter muddle in this and do you think that brighter minds might somehow manage to create a structure that sees the items included in Annual costs get rolled into the rental fee that suddenly become Direct costs.. or indeed if you rent an aircraft from a flying club their rental fee includes elements of annual costs? What happens if the flying club aircraft is owned by the pilot? and so on... You hit the nail on the head it is a mess and an entirely predictable one. That is causes a huge number of accidents I don't think it does but having had a high profile accident the nonsense of the situation is now of focus.
=leftDirect costs means the costs directly incurred in relation to a flight (e.g. fuel, airfield charges, rental fee for an aircraft). There can be no element of profit.=leftAnnual costs which cannot be included in the cost sharing are the cost of keeping, maintaining, insuring and operating the aircraft over a period of one calendar year. There can be no element of profit.
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The big change will be when someone realises that they are going to lose £15M.
It will be the big organisations that will stop their footballers and jockeys flying in anything that isn't part of an AOC operation and probably with two pilots in a perf A aircraft.
In the end it is the insurance companies that will make the rules and make people stick to them.
It will be the big organisations that will stop their footballers and jockeys flying in anything that isn't part of an AOC operation and probably with two pilots in a perf A aircraft.
In the end it is the insurance companies that will make the rules and make people stick to them.
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=leftDirect costs means the costs directly incurred in relation to a flight (e.g. fuel, airfield charges, rental fee for an aircraft). There can be no element of profit.=leftAnnual costs which cannot be included in the cost sharing are the cost of keeping, maintaining, insuring and operating the aircraft over a period of one calendar year. There can be no element of profit.
Case 1 - I rent an aircraft from a club or owner and my 'cost share' can be calculated on that cost which does include the full hourly cost of the direct and indirect costs
Case 2. - I use my own aircraft so suddenly the hourly rate reduces from £200 to around £80-100 or so.
Of course, what I could do is to buy an aircraft, set up a company to operate it and rent it back to me at the higher rate. Does it matter if the hourly rate my own company charges me includes admin fees and other indirect costs that puts a £172 to £400 per hour, if the market will bear it?
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""Of course, what I could do is to buy an aircraft, set up a company to operate it and rent it back to me at the higher rate. Does it matter if the hourly rate my own company charges me includes admin fees and other indirect costs that puts a £172 to £400 per hour, if the market will bear it?""
Without prejudice on my behalf and in no way accusing anyone, how else could it work in the Jockey, Grey charter world?
Without prejudice on my behalf and in no way accusing anyone, how else could it work in the Jockey, Grey charter world?
Technology is a great enabler, including the amazing ability to record moving images and some how make them available to others around the world.
2018 seemed a world away and here some salesman called Grant Shapps (50ish mins in) who is from the UK talks about the advantages of deregulation and the headline for the issues are labelled as "challenges to adoption".
You can hear 30mins of Q&A it doesn't seem the great and the good are that oblivious. No.1 question (1hr 10m ish) is about the passenger..."How do passengers with no experience about aviation know what is safe or not...." Oh the irony..
2018 seemed a world away and here some salesman called Grant Shapps (50ish mins in) who is from the UK talks about the advantages of deregulation and the headline for the issues are labelled as "challenges to adoption".
You can hear 30mins of Q&A it doesn't seem the great and the good are that oblivious. No.1 question (1hr 10m ish) is about the passenger..."How do passengers with no experience about aviation know what is safe or not...." Oh the irony..
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Technology is a great enabler, including the amazing ability to record moving images and some how make them available to others around the world.
https://youtu.be/OR_rt9OOK4g
2018 seemed a world away and here some salesman called Grant Shapps (50ish mins in) who is from the UK talks about the advantages of deregulation and the headline for the issues are labelled as "challenges to adoption".
You can hear 30mins of Q&A it doesn't seem the great and the good are that oblivious. No.1 question (1hr 10m ish) is about the passenger..."How do passengers with no experience about aviation know what is safe or not...." Oh the irony..
https://youtu.be/OR_rt9OOK4g
2018 seemed a world away and here some salesman called Grant Shapps (50ish mins in) who is from the UK talks about the advantages of deregulation and the headline for the issues are labelled as "challenges to adoption".
You can hear 30mins of Q&A it doesn't seem the great and the good are that oblivious. No.1 question (1hr 10m ish) is about the passenger..."How do passengers with no experience about aviation know what is safe or not...." Oh the irony..
"How do passengers with no experience about aviation know what is safe or not...." Oh the irony..[/QUOTE]
Well, once upon a time, in days of old there once was a telly series " Rogue Traders ". Let`s get Matt Allwright to impersonate a football player, he is too tall to pass off as a jockey, and take to the skies in a light plane with one of his traders from his hall of fame. That might do the trick.
Forget his politics he sounds like a cheap salesman in that video and his view on medicals was borderline idiotic because by extrapolation of his view nobody needs either medical, licence or any other checks or balance.
Chronos hits the nail on the head - just how difficult would it be to mystery shop those providing cost sharing flights?? Those whose remit it is are maxed out and someone needs to call time.
Chronos hits the nail on the head - just how difficult would it be to mystery shop those providing cost sharing flights?? Those whose remit it is are maxed out and someone needs to call time.