Cardiff City Footballer Feared Missing after aircraft disappeared near Channel Island
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Every time McKay speaks I just have more questions than answers. All the previous flights presumably were in the Eclipse. McKay is quite certain that he organised and paid for them. When it comes to the PA46, he asked Dave Henderson to ‘make all the necessary arrangements’. What does that mean? McKay says that he didn’t chose plane and pilot. In my experience, clients who regularly use air charter know the basics, prop or jet, one or two engines, one or two pilots. At some point somebody made a decision to use the PA46 after using the Eclipse for the previous flights. Wouldn’t McKay be annoyed by that? Wouldn’t the person who booked it know it wasn’t what he normally used? Suddenly McKay, although he didn’t chose the pilot, has become an expert on Dave Ibbotson’s qualifications. He uses the same form of words as the Ibbotson family, ‘he was licenced to carry passengers’. Well, yes he was in some other circumstances but not in this set of circumstances. Once again there is a cynical PR campaign going on.
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So a multitude of flights are "arranged". It can't be too difficult to find out what was the reward, who paid and who received, in which planes owned by whom etc. The big question is who will really delve into this. Apart from the high value of the passenger, authorities may consider this to be a normal "Accident". The "common purpose" required under FAA rules seems the crucial point, but will the FAA bother to investigate? Either way it would be excellent if EASA and CAA introduced the same "common purpose" rule, it would be a clear solution to a grey area.
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McKay told Sala that Cardiff were paying for the flights, now he says that his son paid for the flights. To investigate this will be like trying to nail jelly to the wall.
Except for the PA46 which was ‘arranged’.
Except for the PA46 which was ‘arranged’.
Looking at the wider picture surely it is time for the FAA and CAA to legislate and abolish the abuse of this N flag of convenience.
Clearly the reason many UK based light aircraft operate on the FAA register is to exploit the fact that it is cheaper and less regulated. Here is Asia there is a rule whereby foreign registered aircraft can only stay in the country for a limited period.
Regarding agent’s part in the tragedy he clearly has passed the buck.
The Scot has repeatedly stressed he neither owns the doomed plane nor had any input into the selection of it or the pilot, Dave Ibbotson. Instead, he says, he simply asked one of his regular pilots, Dave Henderson, to make all the necessary arrangements.
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One thing that was puzzling me was where Sala’s personal agent went because he didn’t leave on the PA46 to Nantes on the Saturday. It has been revealed today that he left on the Friday afternoon on yet another PA46, N14EF.
Altaclara Aviation Ltd.
Altaclara Aviation Ltd.
Nature of business (SIC)
- 77351 - Renting and leasing of air passenger transport equipment
Last edited by runway30; 19th Feb 2019 at 11:41.
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The "common purpose" required under FAA rules seems the crucial point
it may well be an illegal charter, but the “common purpose” provision has nothing to do with that.
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I got the impression that "common purpose" is a stupid blunt sword.
It only means the pilot has to have a reason at a A to B flight to be at B.
You can always construct such, no way to really enforce that.
It only means the pilot has to have a reason at a A to B flight to be at B.
You can always construct such, no way to really enforce that.
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If it was a straightforward commercial flight the illegality is obvious, but I would suspect a cost sharing scheme will be claimed, making the flight "legal"
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I did wonder if it was done by way of lease transferring operational control to McKay’s company for the duration of the flight and he then hired his own flight crew. However, he denied that with the first words out of his mouth when he said that he had no control over either aircraft or pilot. It may have come as a huge surprise to David Henderson when he discovered that he had been sacrificed.
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Looking at the wider picture surely it is time for the FAA and CAA to legislate and abolish the abuse of this N flag of convenience.
Clearly the reason many UK based light aircraft operate on the FAA register is to exploit the fact that it is cheaper and less regulated. Here is Asia there is a rule whereby foreign registered aircraft can only stay in the country for a limited period.
Regarding agent’s part in the tragedy he clearly has passed the buck.
I am not a legal expert but I imagine one of ‘ his regular pilots ‘ has played a significant part in all this.
If there are costs to be saved by being on the N reg (whether for the aircraft or the pilot) then presumably that frees up cash to allow more time perfecting the skills flying the machinery. More hours flying tends, for me, to mean better skills and safer operations.
Personally I prefer the discussion about causes, or possible causes of issues within aviation rather than legal conjecture on all sorts of things reported in the Sun newspaper!
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Looking at the wider picture surely it is time for the FAA and CAA to legislate and abolish the abuse of this N flag of convenience.
Clearly the reason many UK based light aircraft operate on the FAA register is to exploit the fact that it is cheaper and less regulated. Here is Asia there is a rule whereby foreign registered aircraft can only stay in the country for a limited period.
Regarding agent’s part in the tragedy he clearly has passed the buck.
The CAA is required to have oversight of all flying occurring in the UK FIR regardless of the registry of the aircraft concerned. If there is an issue with questionable charters, the issue is a lack of oversight in general, unless you are suggesting that the CAA somehow watches G reg ops like a hawk and ignores the N reg ops.
There are, in my view, two reasons why there is a proliferation of N reg in Europe, neither (directly) associated with cost.
1. The FAA flight crew licensing regime has been rock steady whilst we in the Uk have watched a dogs dinner unfold as we’ve moved from CAA to JAA to EASA to whatever next.
2. The FAA has historically been far faster to approve new technologies, making the register far more attractive to those operating more advanced aircraft.
The accident rate on the N reg fleet globally is far better than the G reg fleet (so far as these things can be compared) and the FAA has not been slow to act when circumstances require.
In situations like this, it is easy to point at the registry and claim that it has something to do with the events concerned. Right now, I see no link. Tell me why I am wrong.
So in summary:
1. In due course, the UK AAIB will produce their report summarising their considered view on what is likely to have happened. Along with many reading and contributing to this forum, I now have my own view - based on the original circumstances and the many, many valid inputs provided in this forum.
2. The US FAA have little practical interest, as they are not responsible for enforcement outside the US, the pilot involved is no longer with us and so has no US licence to lose, and the practical owners (whoever and wherever they may turn out to be) do not operate in the US.
3. The UK CAA will continue to give this murky area the good ignoring which appears to have gone on for years. A moderate increase in carefully judged enforcement action would probably do something at little cost to level the playing fields between those who play by the rules - and incur the costs thereof - and those who cheat the system and thumb their noses at the formal checks and balances. That those checks and balances are based on painful experience seems never to register with those cowboys. There doesn't seem to be any shortage of relevant regulation - just an appalling lack of responsibility in monitoring and enforcing.
4. The extent to which the responsibilities of those behind this whole sorry saga are exposed will be based on the various financial and 'political' interests of the parties. With some £15M in play and some deep pockets to keep the lawyers busy, this one could run and run.
Cynical? Moi?
1. In due course, the UK AAIB will produce their report summarising their considered view on what is likely to have happened. Along with many reading and contributing to this forum, I now have my own view - based on the original circumstances and the many, many valid inputs provided in this forum.
2. The US FAA have little practical interest, as they are not responsible for enforcement outside the US, the pilot involved is no longer with us and so has no US licence to lose, and the practical owners (whoever and wherever they may turn out to be) do not operate in the US.
3. The UK CAA will continue to give this murky area the good ignoring which appears to have gone on for years. A moderate increase in carefully judged enforcement action would probably do something at little cost to level the playing fields between those who play by the rules - and incur the costs thereof - and those who cheat the system and thumb their noses at the formal checks and balances. That those checks and balances are based on painful experience seems never to register with those cowboys. There doesn't seem to be any shortage of relevant regulation - just an appalling lack of responsibility in monitoring and enforcing.
4. The extent to which the responsibilities of those behind this whole sorry saga are exposed will be based on the various financial and 'political' interests of the parties. With some £15M in play and some deep pockets to keep the lawyers busy, this one could run and run.
Cynical? Moi?
Just a numbered other
So in summary:
1. In due course, the UK AAIB will produce their report summarising their considered view on what is likely to have happened. Along with many reading and contributing to this forum, I now have my own view - based on the original circumstances and the many, many valid inputs provided in this forum.
2. The US FAA have little practical interest, as they are not responsible for enforcement outside the US, the pilot involved is no longer with us and so has no US licence to lose, and the practical owners (whoever and wherever they may turn out to be) do not operate in the US.
3. The UK CAA will continue to give this murky area the good ignoring which appears to have gone on for years. A moderate increase in carefully judged enforcement action would probably do something at little cost to level the playing fields between those who play by the rules - and incur the costs thereof - and those who cheat the system and thumb their noses at the formal checks and balances. That those checks and balances are based on painful experience seems never to register with those cowboys. There doesn't seem to be any shortage of relevant regulation - just an appalling lack of responsibility in monitoring and enforcing.
4. The extent to which the responsibilities of those behind this whole sorry saga are exposed will be based on the various financial and 'political' interests of the parties. With some £15M in play and some deep pockets to keep the lawyers busy, this one could run and run.
Cynical? Moi?
1. In due course, the UK AAIB will produce their report summarising their considered view on what is likely to have happened. Along with many reading and contributing to this forum, I now have my own view - based on the original circumstances and the many, many valid inputs provided in this forum.
2. The US FAA have little practical interest, as they are not responsible for enforcement outside the US, the pilot involved is no longer with us and so has no US licence to lose, and the practical owners (whoever and wherever they may turn out to be) do not operate in the US.
3. The UK CAA will continue to give this murky area the good ignoring which appears to have gone on for years. A moderate increase in carefully judged enforcement action would probably do something at little cost to level the playing fields between those who play by the rules - and incur the costs thereof - and those who cheat the system and thumb their noses at the formal checks and balances. That those checks and balances are based on painful experience seems never to register with those cowboys. There doesn't seem to be any shortage of relevant regulation - just an appalling lack of responsibility in monitoring and enforcing.
4. The extent to which the responsibilities of those behind this whole sorry saga are exposed will be based on the various financial and 'political' interests of the parties. With some £15M in play and some deep pockets to keep the lawyers busy, this one could run and run.
Cynical? Moi?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football...emiliano-sala/
McKay says Cardiff City are ‘Throwing me under the bus’.
The club who were organising a nice safe commercial flight for their very expensive new signing are overruled by a cowboy who hires another cowboy who sub-contracts the job to another cowboy. And now cowboy #1 wonders why his actions are being investigated?
Poor poor man! From what I’ve learned so far, ‘under the bus’ is just where he (and his No 1 pilot) belong!
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Yep, this all comes down to insurance. It is fair to assume that Mr Sala, in particular his footballing prowess, was insured by someone and that policy will be cashed-in. For sure the prime underwriter will be looking to minimise his exposure and he will spend a lot of money in pursuing other parties in order that they pay for their part in the loss. The cause of the crash is (probably) largely irrelevant.
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A new search for the body of a missing pilot David Ibbotson could start next week according to BBC Humberside. This search will also be masterminded by David Mearns who located the crashed aircraft containing Sala's body.Mearns says the new search will be "technically very different" to the discovery of the missing aircraft and is depepdebnt on good weather, neap tides and flight permits. The finding is coming from donors who have given to the Ibbotson family . Gary Lineker has chipped in £1,000
Thank you. My earlier comment was based only on the commentaries in this thread, as I had no counterbalancing information. It's a very long time since I had any contacts in/with the CAA (last thirty-odd years experience was with military aviation.) In common with many, I will be encouraged if the CAA is both resourced and supported in appropriate enforcement action(s.)
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Thank you. My earlier comment was based only on the commentaries in this thread, as I had no counterbalancing information. It's a very long time since I had any contacts in/with the CAA (last thirty-odd years experience was with military aviation.) In common with many, I will be encouraged if the CAA is both resourced and supported in appropriate enforcement action(s.)
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Excerpts from an interview McKay has had with the Daily Telegraph.
This timeline, which he shared with Telegraph Sport, shows his son had organised and paid for two earlier flights to Nantes for Cardiff manager Neil Warnock to watch the striker and two between the cities for the player
The Scot has repeatedly stressed he neither owns the doomed plane nor had any input into the selection of it or the pilot, Dave Ibbotson.
McKay said he routinely funded the flights and hotels of players he was contracted to sell – and even managers he was trying to sell them to – listing the practice among “gambles” he took in the hope of securing a lucrative payday.’
This timeline, which he shared with Telegraph Sport, shows his son had organised and paid for two earlier flights to Nantes for Cardiff manager Neil Warnock to watch the striker and two between the cities for the player
The Scot has repeatedly stressed he neither owns the doomed plane nor had any input into the selection of it or the pilot, Dave Ibbotson.
McKay said he routinely funded the flights and hotels of players he was contracted to sell – and even managers he was trying to sell them to – listing the practice among “gambles” he took in the hope of securing a lucrative payday.’
So he is paying for one party at least.
By saying that he has contracted someone else to make the arrangements, he has passed the buck onto the PIC.
It will be very hard to nail him for anything. Henderson on the other hand will be looked at under a microscope.
As for the Eclipse flights, under cost sharing, these are illegal to do so.
European and National regulations permit cost sharing as follows:
- The flight is a cost-shared flight by private individuals.
- The direct costs of the flight must be shared between all of the occupants of the aircraft, including the pilot, up to a maximum of 6 persons.
- The cost-sharing arrangements apply to any other-than complex motor-powered EASAaircraft and this includes aircraft registered outside of the EASA area but operated by an operator established or residing in the Community.
- Cost-sharing is also permitted in non-EASA(Annex II of the Basic Regulation) aircraft registered in the UK.
Full website can be found here.
https://www.caa.co.uk/General-aviati...aring-flights/
The buck has been well and truly passed onto Ibbotson and Henderson.